GDT: 2019 Trade Deadline: Part Two/ The Wrath of Holland

[obey86]

I think being respectful of a career-long Wing like Kronwall pays dividends in what it shows about the culture and character of the organization to current and future players.

Based on the deals that happened this deadline, it's not looking like Kronwall would've brought in a king's ransom as a 38 year-old rental.

To each their own but I never understood why someone like Kronwall wouldn't want one last shot at the Stanley Cup before he retires and would rather play on this dumpy team for 20 more games. Never understood that thought process.

 

[TheOtherOne]

This is dumb and irrational but the most disappointing thing to me right now is not getting Stone.

It was probably never likely, and honestly I never even saw the guy play because I only watch Wings games and generally don't care about opposing players much. But just hearing about him for the past week made me want him and really got my hopes up and now I'm sad.

Alas...

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

If Zadina makes it out of camp next year the top 6 wingers look like:

Bert--C--Mantha
AA---C--Zadina

And that's if Ras doesn't take a step forward in the off season. The team has good options for top 6 wing next season. Losing Nyquist isn't nearly as big a deal as people make it out to be. I'd be more interested in finding a 3rd line winger, a reclamation project or someone willing to play on an intermediate length contract.

See, this I understand. I’m okay with this line of thinking and not needing to re-up Nyquist. He really was an extra piece now that you look at it. It would be pretty sweet if we could get AA to stick as a C too.

 

[Winger98]

I think it's undeniable Blashill does a lot of things well. Any performance needs to be framed around the awful rosters he's been given.

He also has some stubborn usage patterns you see from coaches *coughBabcockcough* that seem to defy modern metrics in favor of more traditional hockey wisdom.

What still stands out about Bowman was his ability to stay out of those usage traps. It's not like he wouldn't throw the lines into a blender, but I don't remember him often going back to some formulaic thing regardless of its effectiveness. When Babcock was at his best here there was a similar thing. I'm curious how much of that were the assistants under them, as Smith seemed to have Bowman's ear in a serious way and seemed to embrace unconventional approaches, while Babcock seemed at his best with MacLellen next to him.

Or you could lock up your second highest scoring player AND add an upgrade rather than just making a lateral move for a lottery ticket.

For better or worse, the Wings seem to want the cap flexibility this summer over locking in the sure thing with Nyquist. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[Shaman464]

See, this I understand. I’m okay with this line of thinking and not needing to re-up Nyquist. He really was an extra piece now that you look at it. It would be pretty sweet if we could get AA to stick as a C too.

If they get a center from the top 5 of the draft AA should stay as a winger that embarrasses other team middle 6/middle pairing.

 

[datsyukfan]

If Zadina makes it out of camp next year the top 6 wingers look like:

Bert--C--Mantha
AA---C--Zadina

And that's if Ras doesn't take a step forward in the off season. The team has good options for top 6 wing next season. Losing Nyquist isn't nearly as big a deal as people make it out to be. I'd be more interested in finding a 3rd line winger, a reclamation project or someone willing to play on an intermediate length contract.

Then you hope the top 2 C’s are Larkin and Hughes. 3C is Nielsen with a solid Svechnikov and rass. 4th is glenny with helm/Abby/ehn

This allows you to spend for a top d-man (EK65) or maybe acquire one through trade via all the extra picks we’ve received

 

[raymond23]

Still can't believe Nashville landed Granlund. He was absolutely the perfect player for that roster.

 

[Claypool]

To each their own but I never understood why someone like Kronwall wouldn't want one last shot at the Stanley Cup before he retires and would rather play on this dumpy team for 20 more games. Never understood that thought process.

Like Abdelkader, Howard, Ericsson and Helm, they stopped caring. They're older, have families and have gotten paid. They are thinking about what to do once they retire. They aren't thinking about going hard in the summer to be ready to compete in training camp. Mentally, they checked out. The salary cap ensures these guys can't be bought out, waived or traded, either. Detroit is stuck with them and they know that.

If you don't have the drive or desire to win a Stanley Cup, even on another team, then you shouldn't be in the NHL (and certainly not on the Red Wings).

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Serious question. Do a lot of teams have consistent 40+ point guys playing outside their top 6?

Because my inclination would be to think there aren't many.

My point was he wouldn't get top 6 minutes on a good team thus reducing his points. Obviously Holland knew he wasn't worth what he wanted and rightfully traded him. UFA being his best year, glad he is gone.

 

[Dotter]

It's funny, you guys are talking **** about getting #60 picks for a #121 overall. Tatar was a #60 too, our 2-4 drafting has been pretty damn good. Nyquist was a UFA, he didn't come to an agreement with Holland before the trade deadline and he was sent away for assets. That's the ****in breaks, he could still be a wing, too.

Well hopefully Detroit can draft a few more Zetterbergs, another 3 or 4 Datsyuks and atleast 2 more Lidstroms!

But considering this era of drafting is incredibly different, I think we might have to settle for another Ouellet and Alan Quine... and if they get really lucky, maybe another Marek Tvrdon! Yaaaay!

/end sarcasm.

The 2nd and 3rd they got will more than likely burn out and become nothing. We may get lucky, but I'm not betting the farm on it.

 

[Claypool]

I suppose ultimately, we're gambling that Zadina will be better than Nyquist in a year or two, and that we can replace his output at least partially via FA.

I'm quite confident Zadina can consistently score at least 20 goals a season, something Nyquist had trouble doing playing with Zetterberg and Larkin.

 

[Ezekial]

Well hopefully Detroit can draft a few more Zetterbergs, another 3 or 4 Datsyuks and atleast 2 more Lidstroms!

But considering this era of drafting is incredibly different, I think we might have to settle for another Ouellet and Alan Quine... and if they get really lucky, maybe another Marek Tvrdon! Yaaaay!

/end sarcasm.

The 2nd and 3rd they got will more than likely burn out and become nothing. We may get lucky, but I'm not betting the farm on it.

May as well stop breathing, Dotter, you're gonna die one day. It's still worth taking the shots.

Nyquist and Holland didn't come to an agreement. He was traded for assets instead of allowing his contract to expire. That's that.

 

[Oddbob]

Like Abdelkader, Howard, Ericsson and Helm, they stopped caring. They're older, have families and have gotten paid. They are thinking about what to do once they retire. They aren't thinking about going hard in the summer to be ready to compete in training camp. Mentally, they checked out. The salary cap ensures these guys can't be bought out, waived or traded, either. Detroit is stuck with them and they know that.

If you don't have the drive or desire to win a Stanley Cup, even on another team, then you shouldn't be in the NHL (and certainly not on the Red Wings).

Disagree highly on Helm. He competes hard every single night, and is doing well in his defensive role. Also, Howard has played quite well, hard to imagine a goalie playing well if they mentally check out. I do agree on Abby as he is doing nothing out there, while Ericsson I believe is hampered by his injuries rather than a lack of caring.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Player Season Finder | Hockey-Reference.com

comparables for Nyquist in terms of points and goal through ages 25-29 post lockout. take a look at that list and especially players who had their age 29 seasons years ago (as in we know what happened to them in their 30s).

in case you don't want to click, they generally declined and some very rapidly. scoring tends to decline in 30s compared to what you did in your 20s. kenny made the mistake of assuming it doesn't too many times. star players or very good two way payers can still remain useful or even good when their scoring drops and physical abilities go. Nyquist, not so much.

 

[Oddbob]

To each their own but I never understood why someone like Kronwall wouldn't want one last shot at the Stanley Cup before he retires and would rather play on this dumpy team for 20 more games. Never understood that thought process.

I do hear you, and used to think roughly the same. But now that I am older as well as close to Kronwall in age, I can see a player with a family not wanting to leave for a few months for a small chance at a Cup. He has lived here a long time, probably doesn't want to leave his wife/family for an extended period of time. I think for veteran players that have been traded before and their families have experienced the moves before it would be easier, but I don't blame him for not wanting to go and leave his family for the first time now. Reality is, the chance to win is very small.

 

[Claypool]

I do hear you, and used to think roughly the same. But now that I am older as well as close to Kronwall in age, I can see a player with a family not wanting to leave for a few months for a small chance at a Cup. He has lived here a long time, probably doesn't want to leave his wife/family for an extended period of time. I think for veteran players that have been traded before and their families have experienced the moves before it would be easier, but I don't blame him for not wanting to go and leave his family for the first time now. Reality is, the chance to win is very small.

They are putting their family and lifestyle ahead of hockey. That’s fine, but just call it what it is. This team has a bunch of vets that are not prioritizing the growth of their career anymore.

 

[Oddbob]

They are putting their family and lifestyle ahead of hockey. That’s fine, but just call it what it is. This team has a bunch of vets that are not prioritizing the growth of their career anymore.

What is Helm supposed to be doing differently for you?

 

[Claypool]

What is Helm supposed to be doing differently for you?

Do I think Helm works twice as hard over the summer to be ready for an 82-game season? No.

Do I think management should grow some balls and start waving these guys to send them to Grand Rapids? Yes.

Helm, Abdelkader and Ericsson should no longer be on the roster. Buy them out, waive them, whatever. Just get rid of them.

 

[Shaman464]

Then you hope the top 2 C’s are Larkin and Hughes. 3C is Nielsen with a solid Svechnikov and rass. 4th is glenny with helm/Abby/ehn

This allows you to spend for a top d-man (EK65) or maybe acquire one through trade via all the extra picks we’ve received

If you get Hughes it might make sense to push for EK.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

See, this I understand. I’m okay with this line of thinking and not needing to re-up Nyquist. He really was an extra piece now that you look at it. It would be pretty sweet if we could get AA to stick as a C too.

I mean, you need really good third line depth to be anything in this league, and any of those guys could move down a line. I don't think Nyquist needed to come back, but we still need winger depth.

 

[datsyukfan]

If you get Hughes it might make sense to push for EK.

Ya I like that top 9 with the potential for valeno to get his way on the roster part way through. Defense becomes something like:

Cholo-EK65
DK-Hronek
Kronwall-Green

That d-core really isn’t that bad and neither would the top 9. Imo it’s a roster that can at least push for a WC spot next season

 

[Oddbob]

Do I think Helm works twice as hard over the summer to be ready for an 82-game season? No.

Do I think management should grow some balls and start waving these guys to send them to Grand Rapids? Yes.

Helm, Abdelkader and Ericsson should no longer be on the roster. Buy them out, waive them, whatever. Just get rid of them.

Why Helm, he is playing well and competing hard? Abby and Ericsson yeah, but Helm is fine!

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Ya I like that top 9 with the potential for valeno to get his way on the roster part way through. Defense becomes something like:

Cholo-EK65
DK-Hronek
Kronwall-Green

That d-core really isn’t that bad and neither would the top 9. Imo it’s a roster that can at least push for a WC spot next season

That d-core would get abused so, so hard. #1 pairing is suspect defensively, #2 pairing is decisionmaking lite and suspect defensively, respectively, and that #3 pairing is slow and suspect defensively, respectively.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

This is dumb and irrational but the most disappointing thing to me right now is not getting Stone.

It was probably never likely, and honestly I never even saw the guy play because I only watch Wings games and generally don't care about opposing players much. But just hearing about him for the past week made me want him and really got my hopes up and now I'm sad.

Alas...

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

My point was he wouldn't get top 6 minutes on a good team thus reducing his points. Obviously Holland knew he wasn't worth what he wanted and rightfully traded him. UFA being his best year, glad he is gone.

Playing on a good team with more talent around him you think Nyquist would get less points? He put up 43 points playing 15 minutes a night on the 2016 Wings.

I don't know what he was asking for contract-wise and I don't have strong feelings about him being gone vs. staying, but you're selling Nyquist short as a player.