Let's see how it plays out. At least we won't be upset if I am right and you are wrong, are we?
WC: 2019 - Team Russia
- Thread starter Khokhlach86
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I have seen much more of Gusev than the Olympics and I was right projecting all the recent KHLers" production in the NHL. He is the real deal. He is not elite. That is not a contradiction.
Dadonov is living of a career year you say? 65 pts in 2017/18. What does that 30+ mean? If anything it adds to his resume and we are talking short tournament right here and now and not what they both are going to achieve in 5 years from now. Also Gusev is 26, not 20. It's not like he is a kid whose potential is still in the clouds. They are both fully developed players in their primes.
They are also completely different types of players. Dadonov is a great complementary scorer for an elite center. He's fast and he can score, but he needs a playmaker. This is not a negative. Same applies for Ovechkin for example. If aou want to use a goal scorer properly, you will ned someone to feed him the pucks. Gusev on the other hand is more of a playmaker. So replacing Dadonov with Gusev on the line is not about skill level, it's about changing the complete setup of the line.
Stating that something is a fact does not make it a fact. And bringing stats and underlying analytics into it is downright funny. Yeah, Doughty and Kopitar are done.
You take a one game sample size to project?
Games that matter are the games not yet played. You push an approach that would fit your agenda. Actually good analysts and coaches are able to build team without looking "only at the games that matter", especially only at the games that matter to a single fan. And in your world no new linemates should happen, because we'd look at "the games that matter" and only take combinations that have already worked(and only there).
Have they played any games that matter? No? Then your claim is not valid.
Because coaches for once try something and don't stand pat or do the worst thing possible by serving fans' wet dreams through putting the best players on paper on a line together. Oh that combo made in heaven Ovechkin - Malkin! How great it worked!
That's how lineups work. Again, in your world the line should be
Ovechkin - Malkin - Kucherov
Best LW, best C, best RW. Great! Not.
Why? He has played in those games in the past. He for once is a real linemate who played with Kucherov. He is a good example case as he is obviously not a top level player, just like our centers beyond Malkin and Kuznetsov.
I know elite is a subjective as puck term, but to me elite is at the very least PPG in 82 games. Do you project Gusev to be that next season?
Yeah, right. The simple formula that did cost us the Olympics because Malkin played with the best winger. Stop it really. Your logic is faulty.
And now lets just discard there are LW and RW. Great! And look up the history of the winning teams(all winning teams in all big tournaments). Don't forget the 2012 I already gave you. You will find enough cases contradicting your claim.
W.H.A.T.?
Does someone know how lineups have a look in todays practise? It seems that they will change it everyday. Also would like to know PP lineups.
Yes.
Same lineups as yesterday
Sergachev - Nesterov, Grigorenko - Malkin - Dadonov;
Orlov - Zaitsev, Ovechkin - Kuznetsov - Kaprizov
Khafizullin - Zub, Gusev - Anisimov - Kucherov
Blazhievsky, Kovalchuk - Andronov - Plotnikov
Barabanov, Telegin extra forwards
PP 1
--------------Sergachev-----------------
Kucherov-------Malkin---------Gusev
--------------Dadonov-------------------
PP2
-----------------Kovalchuk---------------
Grigorenko-------------------Ovechkin
---------Kuznetsov---Kaprizov---------
Planet Hockey
Registered User
- Apr 22, 2016
- 57
- 17
I refer to your "let me introduce you to math" post from last year, in which you argued there is no real difference between the 1st and 30th-ranked players at a given position. If that is the case, why squabble about the gap between "real deal" and "elite?" Gusev and Dadonov are probably licking the top 30 worldwide so it's just as good as having 2 Brett Hulls out there.
Canada lost Tavares. On paper only USA looks dangerous for us, but given the recent results even Finland could eliminate us.
Good cause for optimism based on the talented and explosive offensive balance on the team. Good cause for pessimism based on the slow, talentless and relatively small defense. Maybe Sergachev has talent, but he is just a baby! Orlov and Zaitsev have pretty good offensive skills, but they are a disastrous liability on defense. Khafizullin and Zub are just stiffs with a pulse who fill out the roster. So the question is, against competent offensive teams, how much time and energy will be wasted trying to fish the puck across the blue line and out of danger? The answer will decide their fate in the tournament.
I don't get the Sergachev - Nesterov pairing, they are both offensive mistake prone d-men. I like the addition of Gavrikov and Zadorov, don't like the cut of Kiselevich (likely due to being rusty) don't like the fact, that Zub and Khafizullin are on the roster still (probably cause the coach is their coach on the club level as well...)
TheGoldenJet
Registered User
I’m sorry, but Dadonov and Brett Hull should never be used in the same sentence.
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Wings4Life
Registered User
So, when it comes to the crux of the argument, which is whether or not Malkin can still carry his own line when it counts, your rebuttal is basically "lol". Way to contribute. I stated Malkin is not at his peak anymore and provided evidence. You have no argument. Sad.
Nice straw man. I look at available data. We have one high level competitive game to draw conclusions from re Malkin-Kucherov. That's something to take into consideration. Nowhere do I say I base my entire projections on it.
Because coaches for once try something and don't stand pat or do the worst thing possible by serving fans' wet dreams through putting the best players on paper on a line together. Oh that combo made in heaven Ovechkin - Malkin! How great it worked!
That's how lineups work. Again, in your world the line should be
Ovechkin - Malkin - Kucherov
Best LW, best C, best RW. Great! Not.
How quickly you forget. I would again look at games that mattered to assess the Malkin-Ovie combination. Vancouver 2010: this combo failed in the quarter finals. Sochi 2014: both went pointless in four straight games. In my lineup, these two would never play together 5v5.
I will say this, Gusev has a significantly better chance than Dadonov to reach these totals over the next two seasons. He will have to acclimate to small ice though...unlike at this WC, which is on international ice.
See above re: Malkin-Ovechkin.
They are the exception to the rule. Here is some homework for you: find me all the winning teams where the best center did not play with any of the top 3 wingers on the team. I'll be waiting.
TheGoldenJet
Registered User
If we are going by a single scale, Grigorenko would not qualify as skilled.
I have no idea how a bottom 6 plug like him is playing on Malkin’s line with the wingers Russia has available here.
Grigorenko is a bottom 6 plug? I am not his fan, but you might be interested in following a different sport. Hockey isn't your thing. Or you are so overly emotional it clouds your judgement. You want a toy= Malkin playing with a winger you want him to play with. Good thing you are no coach, because it's about winning and not about making emotional fans happy.
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Retroglyphs
Registered User
- Mar 23, 2018
- 869
- 307
Then you clearly haven't watched him playing for the Avs. Grigorenko is a very skilled player, no bottom-six type of guy.
Daninja
Registered User
Does anybody know who will be the goalie for the first match vs Norway? Is it Vasilevsky or Sorokin?
The only kind of Ovechkin on Malkin's wing I want to see:
Walking tall:
He is a fun guy. Trust me.
He looks like a donut, but he is slick like a Borzoi. My personal sleeper pick to steal the show.
"Chaos is a ladder"
Walking tall:
He is a fun guy. Trust me.
He looks like a donut, but he is slick like a Borzoi. My personal sleeper pick to steal the show.
"Chaos is a ladder"
Wings4Life
Registered User
The even strength production needs to be better.
In 3:19 of Russian powerplay time: Russia 3 - Norway 0.
In 50:41 of 5v5 time: Russia 2 - Norway 2.
Some shuffling of the lines for next game would be great, this can't happen against the likes of Sweden etc if we want to medal.
In 3:19 of Russian powerplay time: Russia 3 - Norway 0.
In 50:41 of 5v5 time: Russia 2 - Norway 2.
Some shuffling of the lines for next game would be great, this can't happen against the likes of Sweden etc if we want to medal.
Kap-the-Head
Registered User
Russia stopped skating in the third... This game is not a good indication of future play in the tournament.
The next game will probably feature Zadorov. Khafizullin actually wasn't bad. His awareness play on the assist was really good. Unlike some posessed by negativity posters here I don't think Zaytsev is a defensive liability, quite the contrary and he could rediscover his offence. That said, the D needs all the help they can get. I secretely hope Provorov signs and joins somehow.
The idea of spreading talent worked against Norway. There were 3 scoring lines on the ice and the 4th wasn't dead offensively either. The game against the Czech will show us more though.
The idea of spreading talent worked against Norway. There were 3 scoring lines on the ice and the 4th wasn't dead offensively either. The game against the Czech will show us more though.
