Salary Cap: 2019-2020 Salary Cap Crunch

[4thline]

So you also think there's a handshake deal in place?

Yes
A handshake that
-should Marleau decide to retire he will waive the NMC and allow himself to be traded first
-should Marleau's game decline to the point where his contract is burdensome he will retire/allow himself to be moved post July 1 bonus rather than sticking it to us and playing it out for pride/money
-should the Leafs need to move his contract without either of the above happening the Leafs will be considerate of his stature as a player/ legacy and seek to move him to a contender, if such a deal can be made he will allow it.

No
A handshake that
-requires a player willingly retiring/ playing for a budget team when he hasn't won a cup and is still a good top 6 forward, potentially ending his career early and forgoing millions

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yes
A handshake that
-should Marleau decide to retire he will waive the NMC and allow himself to be traded first
-should Marleau's game decline to the point where his contract is burdensome he will retire/allow himself to be moved post July 1 bonus rather than sticking it to us and playing it out for pride/money
-should the Leafs need to move his contract without either of the above happening the Leafs will be considerate of his stature as a player/ legacy and seek to move him to a contender, if such a deal can be made he will allow it.

No
A handshake that
-requires a player willingly retiring/ playing for a budget team when he hasn't won a cup and is still a good top 6 forward, potentially ending his career early and forgoing millions

Cool, thanks. Excellent well thought out post IMHO and the more quality posters that I see thinking like this the more optimistic I am that there is in fact, something like this in place. And I agree completely, if there is an agreement in place I'd bet that it's not forced retirement but something along the lines of what you described.

 

[diceman934]

If it's all about the money- why would he retire with more earning potential still on the table. The player he was last season gets 4+ as a UFA easily. This isn't a Hossa situation where a player is looking at playing through discomfort for peanuts for 4 years straight.

How hard is it to understand that he will be making peanuts if he infact plays the last year. It was 100% about the money as he got a whole lot more to come here. Anyone thinking otherwise is mistaken. The Leafs were not more likely to win the cup than the Sharks. The offer was significantly more then the Sharks offered.

As for Hossa he has a mysterious skin condition ....lol like Lupul who stated he was physically fine yet he was not. It happens all the time. Look for Weber to come up lame next. You can no longer put bad contracts in the minors so this is the new way to get rid of bad contracts. Marleau’s contract is not bad at all it is easily moved as he will only be owed 1.25m and like I have stated he will be at home. Hell he may even be a visitor on the uninhabited Robidas island.

 

[Gary Nylund]

How hard is it to understand that he will be making peanuts if he infact plays the last year. It was 100% about the money as he got a whole lot more to come here. Anyone thinking otherwise is mistaken. The Leafs were not more likely to win the cup than the Sharks. The offer was significantly more then the Sharks offered.

As for Hossa he has a mysterious skin condition ....lol like Lupul who stated he was physically fine yet he was not. It happens all the time. Look for Weber to come up lame next. You can no longer put bad contracts in the minors so this is the new way to get rid of bad contracts. Marleau’s contract is not bad at all it is easily moved as he will only be owed 1.25m and like I have stated he will be at home. Hell he may even be a visitor on the uninhabited Robidas island.

You might be right, I dunno though. The scenario laid out by 4thline seems quite plausible to me. Marleau strikes me as a guy who sincerely loves the game and as long as he can play at a high level, he'll keep playing. If not then he sure is faking it well in interviews - he really doesn't seem like a guy who's primary concern at this point is money. I wouldn't be surprised if two years from now he can still skate like the wind and signs another contract and if that does happen, I don't think it will be after taking a year off.

There are a number of possible of scenarios here IMO, we'll see what happens.

 

[4thline]

How hard is it to understand that he will be making peanuts if he infact plays the last year. It was 100% about the money as he got a whole lot more to come here.

"It was completely about the money, therefore he's going to walk away from millions, because that money isn't money."

 

[diceman934]

You might be right, I dunno though. The scenario laid out by 4thline seems quite plausible to me. Marleau strikes me as a guy who sincerely loves the game and as long as he can play at a high level, he'll keep playing. If not then he sure is faking it well in interviews - he really doesn't seem like a guy who's primary concern at this point is money. I wouldn't be surprised if two years from now he can still skate like the wind and signs another contract and if that does happen, I don't think it will be after taking a year off.

There are a number of possible of scenarios here IMO, we'll see what happens.

I just look at the structure of the contract and the man who negotiated it.

I believe that it was always a two year deal that they discussed and we added the 3rd year and more money and all parties agreed it was a 2 year deal with him walking away after those two years.

He just earned 17.5m in the first two years of his contract which is about 7m more then he was offered by the Sharks. Why would he turn around and then play the last year for 1.25m? He has made almost 100m in his life time and I really believe that he wanted another big pay day to prop up his retirement funds and we gave it to him.

Lou is not stupid nor is or was he against using every advantage he could get to help out his team. Robidas Island was a real thing. He was not injured he was simply old. Lupul himself said he was healthy enough to play yet was not even invited to camp. This situation is different however the premise is the same. Take advantage of our teams wealth and use it to our best advantage.

 

[diceman934]

"It was completely about the money, therefore he's going to walk away from millions, because that money isn't money."

Millions. Really.

1.25 is not millions!

The rumours at the time was that the Sharks offered a one year deal at 5m and then it was changed to a two year deal at 9m so 4.5m per. We offered him a 17.5 over two years which is 8.5m more. The total 3 year deal is 18.75m

Now tell me again it was not about the money.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I just look at the structure of the contract and the man who negotiated it.

I believe that it was always a two year deal that they discussed and we added the 3rd year and more money and all parties agreed it was a 2 year deal with him walking away after those two years.

He just earned 17.5m in the first two years of his contract which is about 7m more then he was offered by the Sharks. Why would he turn around and then play the last year for 1.25m? He has made almost 100m in his life time and I really believe that he wanted another big pay day to prop up his retirement funds and we gave it to him.

Lou is not stupid nor is or was he against using every advantage he could get to help out his team. Robidas Island was a real thing. He was not injured he was simply old. Lupul himself said he was healthy enough to play yet was not even invited to camp. This situation is different however the premise is the same. Take advantage of our teams wealth and use it to our best advantage.

Maybe it's not just the money and maybe it's not just the love of the game. Maybe it's a combination of both (as it is for perhaps most players) in which case, the scenario 4thline laid out is plausible. If that's what happened then Marleau came to the Leafs partly because it meant a few million more guaranteed money, nothing to sneeze at there. At the same time though, if doesn't want to be forced out after two years because he wants to play but at the same time the Leafs don't want to commit to him beyond two seasons, then what 4thline said is perfect and everyone's happy. Marleau gets more money then he would have got in SJ, he doesn't have to retire if he doesn't want to and the Leafs get what they want (no commitment beyond 2 years).

Cliff notes - he came here because he likes money but he doesn't commit to retiring after two years because he loves the game. Works for me.

 

[4thline]

Millions. Really.

1.25 is not millions!

The rumours at the time was that the Sharks offered a one year deal at 5m and then it was changed to a two year deal at 9m so 4.5m per. We offered him a 17.5 over two years which is 8.5m more. The total 3 year deal is 18.75m

Now tell me again it was not about the money.

Any source on the dollar values of the Sharks offers?
All the rumours were that he wanted 3, they were offering 1 and then broke to 2, we offered three. Yes three years comes with more money, but also with more security. Three years guaranteed, no scrubbling around looking for PTO's or renegotiating every July. No risk of getting hurt and losing the money, of losing a step and losing the money. But he's got that locked in. Signing HERE may have been about maximizing money, but that doesn't mean that it's his sole motivator. Retiring/ not retiring becomes about what happens next. It's an entirely different decision than signing here. Does he want a cup? Does he want another deal? If he does nothing about "2 year agreement" is the least bit enforceable without admitting cap circumvention, and he's got an NMC.

Leo Komarov just got 3m per year. Marleau has a long way for his game to fall before he reaches that level. If he retire's he's done. If he finishes the contract strong he can sign again.

I fully expect him to retire if his game falls off a cliff, and that he hits LTIR at the slightest sign of injury troubles, but those are not foregone conclusions

 

[ACC1224]

After making about 100 million for his career I believe Marleau would play for free if he thought he had a shot at a Cup.

 

[selltrade]

Marleau will play his 3rd year, lets stop with this he wont... they will figure the cap out... JG will probably be gone..

 

[diceman934]

Any source on the dollar values of the Sharks offers?
All the rumours were that he wanted 3, they were offering 1 and then broke to 2, we offered three. Yes three years comes with more money, but also with more security. Three years guaranteed, no scrubbling around looking for PTO's or renegotiating every July. No risk of getting hurt and losing the money, of losing a step and losing the money. But he's got that locked in. Signing HERE may have been about maximizing money, but that doesn't mean that it's his sole motivator. Retiring/ not retiring becomes about what happens next. It's an entirely different decision than signing here. Does he want a cup? Does he want another deal? If he does nothing about "2 year agreement" is the least bit enforceable without admitting cap circumvention, and he's got an NMC.

Leo Komarov just got 3m per year. Marleau has a long way for his game to fall before he reaches that level. If he retire's he's done. If he finishes the contract strong he can sign again.

I fully expect him to retire if his game falls off a cliff, and that he hits LTIR at the slightest sign of injury troubles, but those are not foregone conclusions

Any contract you sign as a 35 year old or older is locked in as they are not
open for a buyout etc.

You said he would be leaving millions on the table if he was to retire when he is not and 100% he came because of the money how anyone can said he did not is laughable as he was negotiating with San Jose when he signed as well as other teams he choose the offer with the most money period.

We have him 3 year money over two years. My opinion is based on his contract structure as there was no need to structure it that way as you can not buy out 35 plus year old players contracts.

 

[4thline]

Any contract you sign as a 35 year old or older is locked in as they are not
open for a buyout etc.

You said he would be leaving millions on the table if he was to retire when he is not and 100% he came because of the money how anyone can said he did not is laughable as he was negotiating with San Jose when he signed as well as other teams he choose the offer with the most money period.

We have him 3 year money over two years. My opinion is based on his contract structure as there was no need to structure it that way as you can not buy out 35 plus year old players contracts.

A. Signing here for more money =/= solely motivated to play by money now. He got his money, now maybe he wants to play? To win? They're entirely separate decisions
B. Exactly. He's locked in for three years. That's security. He wanted more security, more term. He signs that contract he locks in the money. That's what I said.
C. If he retires without playing 2019 that's 1.25 million. If he's still capable of playing beyond 19-20 at his current level, that's millions more foregone.
D. Once again, contingency planning =/= proof of intent. Unless you think everyone that buys home insurance is an arsonist in the making. Structuring the contract that way made it easy to move if they need to. The contract is structured so that he can retire with 93% of his contract paid, so that the contract can be traded to a budget team to free up the cap space. To most people, protecting yourself and giving yourself options are in fact reasons to do things. There's no "need" to do it, it's just good business.

 

[diceman934]

A. Signing here for more money =/= solely motivated to play by money now. He got his money, now maybe he wants to play? To win? They're entirely separate decisions
B. Exactly. He's locked in for three years. That's security. He wanted more security, more term. He signs that contract he locks in the money. That's what I said.
C. If he retires without playing 2019 that's 1.25 million. If he's still capable of playing beyond 19-20 at his current level, that's millions more foregone.
D. Once again, contingency planning =/= proof of intent. Unless you think everyone that buys home insurance is an arsonist in the making. Structuring the contract that way made it easy to move if they need to. The contract is structured so that he can retire with 93% of his contract paid, so that the contract can be traded to a budget team to free up the cap space. To most people, protecting yourself and giving yourself options are in fact reasons to do things. There's no "need" to do it, it's just good business.

Keep telling your self this was not about the money mo one offered more, he moved from the only team he has played for and had many great friends on that team.

The rest I have clearly stated why my opinion is what it is. This time next year we should know if I am right or wrong.

The last part of your post is correct His contract was structured so that it can be moved as is my point.

 

[diceman934]

Keep telling your self this was not about the money mo one offered more, he moved from the only team he has played for and had many great friends on that team.

The rest I have clearly stated why my opinion is what it is. This time next year we should know if I am right or wrong.

The last part of your post is correct His contract was structured so that it can be moved as is my point.

After making about 100 million for his career I believe Marleau would play for free if he thought he had a shot at a Cup.

Well we will see if he plays for 1.25m not free but based on his past contract it is close to free.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

I just don't think some folks understand the pro athlete. They want to play for as long as can at high competitive level regarding of the money. Guys that have made tens of millions go on PTO contracts, hoping for an last season in the NHL. Looking cat Greening of the Leafs. Was buried in the AHL for cap reasons by the Leafs making 2.7m a year. After contract expired he signed with the Marlies for 70,000 a year.
To think that Marleau just retires cause he will just make 1.25m after July 1 2019 seems to be contradict the reality of what happens with pro athletes. If Marleau is playing well, don't you think he will stay a Leaf for his chance at winning Cup?

 

[Menzinger]

That would seem out of character for this group.

The current group yes, But Lou was calling the shots back at that point, and he clearly had no issue giving vets longer than expected contracts.

 

[diceman934]

I just don't think some folks understand the pro athlete. They want to play for as long as can at high competitive level regarding of the money. Guys that have made tens of millions go on PTO contracts, hoping for an last season in the NHL. Looking cat Greening of the Leafs. Was buried in the AHL for cap reasons by the Leafs making 2.7m a year. After contract expired he signed with the Marlies for 70,000 a year.
To think that Marleau just retires cause he will just make 1.25m after July 1 2019 seems to be contradict the reality of what happens with pro athletes. If Marleau is playing well, don't you think he will stay a Leaf for his chance at winning Cup?

lol bad comparison as one is a star player the other a AHL player. Greening was in the AHL because he was not an NHL player and you can not simply put a player in the AHL as all but 925,000 of a cap hit is counted against the cap. So he was not buried at all and just an FYI his contract this past season was not 2.7m but was $750,000 his big contract expired and we resigned him last year.

Can you post confirmation that he signed for $70,000 as no terms were disclosed. Last year we signed him to a $750,000 deal that is a hell of a pay drop considering we have many players just under the Million a year on the Marlies but they are NHL contracts.

Lots of NHL players walk away from the game when they could have made a lot more money. Not everyone is like Jagr.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

lol bad comparison as one is a star player the other a AHL player. Greening was in the AHL because he was not an NHL player and you can not simply put a player in the AHL as all but 925,000 of a cap hit is counted against the cap. So he was not buried at all and just an FYI his contract this past season was not 2.7m but was $750,000 his big contract expired and we resigned him last year.

Can you post confirmation that he signed for $70,000 as no terms were disclosed. Last year we signed him to a $750,000 deal that is a hell of a pay drop considering we have many players just under the Million a year on the Marlies but they are NHL contracts.

Lots of NHL players walk away from the game when they could have made a lot more money. Not everyone is like Jagr.

Greening 2.7m NHL contract ended in June 2017. Last season he signed a two way contract, which is the norm for all AHL contracts. Most AHLer make about 70,000 to 100,000 for playing in the AHL. If they make the NHL or for time in they play in NHL, most make about 800,000 pro rated a year.
If you ever took the time to look at the any AHL roster, you will find most most of their salaries posted are about 800,000, cause that is their NHL salary. Their true pay is still about 80,000 a year most spend their season in the AHL.

What's so difficult to understand. You gave me comment LOL, just because he don't understand contracts. Read and learn.
Last year, I believe the only Marlie that had a one way contract was Marincin so the was "buried" for cap purposes.
Look how many contracts are buried league wide, there are very few, so almost all AHLer are on two way contracts meaning one salary for time in the NHL and one salary for time in the AHL

Gionata came back on a PTO last year with the Bruins, at 650,000. Like most pro athletes he didn't want to retire if he thought he could still contribute. To think Marleau is just going to retire in July 2019, cause he is only going to make 1.25m for playing in 2019/20 just defies what most NHLers do, especially if they have a chance to win a Cup on a very good team. It's hard to convince FANatics despite the facts. But if 6.25m cap space so important to Leaf fans, so they can make their fantasy roster, so be it.

 

[Deebo]

Greening 2.7m NHL contract ended in June 2017. Last season he signed a two way contract, which is the norm for all AHL contracts. Most AHLer make about 70,000 to 100,000 for playing in the AHL. If they make the NHL or for time in they play in NHL, most make about 800,000 pro rated a year.
If you ever took the time to look at the any AHL roster, you will find most most of their salaries posted are about 800,000, cause that is their NHL salary. Their true pay is still about 80,000 a year most spend their season in the AHL.

What's so difficult to understand. You gave me comment LOL, just because he don't understand contracts. Read and learn.
Last year, I believe the only Marlie that had a one way contract was Marincin so the was "buried" for cap purposes.
Look how many contracts are buried league wide, there are very few, so almost all AHLer are on two way contracts meaning one salary for time in the NHL and one salary for time in the AHL

Greening's 2017-18 contract was a one way contract according to capfriendly:

Colin Greening - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

So he was paid the full amount of 750k.

LoVerde also was on one-way deals last season

Pretty condescending for someone who doesn't have his facts straight.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Greening's 2017-18 contract was a one way contract according to capfriendly:

Colin Greening - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

So he was paid the full amount of 750k.

LoVerde also was on one-way deals last season

Pretty condescending for someone who doesn't have his facts straight.

Thanks for the update. But it does prove the point that players just quit just because they make less money. Mr. Diceman and I have had this discussion about Marleau and other players just quitting the game because they are going to make less money in their finals years, or after their signing bonuses are paid.

 

[diceman934]

Greening 2.7m NHL contract ended in June 2017. Last season he signed a two way contract, which is the norm for all AHL contracts. Most AHLer make about 70,000 to 100,000 for playing in the AHL. If they make the NHL or for time in they play in NHL, most make about 800,000 pro rated a year.
If you ever took the time to look at the any AHL roster, you will find most most of their salaries posted are about 800,000, cause that is their NHL salary. Their true pay is still about 80,000 a year most spend their season in the AHL.

What's so difficult to understand. You gave me comment LOL, just because he don't understand contracts. Read and learn.
Last year, I believe the only Marlie that had a one way contract was Marincin so the was "buried" for cap purposes.
Look how many contracts are buried league wide, there are very few, so almost all AHLer are on two way contracts meaning one salary for time in the NHL and one salary for time in the AHL

Gionata came back on a PTO last year with the Bruins, at 650,000. Like most pro athletes he didn't want to retire if he thought he could still contribute. To think Marleau is just going to retire in July 2019, cause he is only going to make 1.25m for playing in 2019/20 just defies what most NHLers do, especially if they have a chance to win a Cup on a very good team. It's hard to convince FANatics despite the facts. But if 6.25m cap space so important to Leaf fans, so they can make their fantasy roster, so be it.

Go and look things up before you keep embarrassing your self. Greening played last year on a one way contract that paid him $750,000 to play as a Marlie or as a Leaf.

This year Holl will make $650,000 no matter where he plays . Leafs have done this all along as they make their waiver eligible players as unattractive as possible by over paying them a little in hopes of deterring other teams from claiming them.

Marincin just signed a one way contract for this year for $800,000.

Pickard just signed another contract for $800,000 another one way contract. Last year he was also on a one way contract that paid him 1.075m.

LoVerde player on a one way deal last year for $700,000 and this year he gets $750,000 on a one way deal.

Mueller was paid $400,000 last year and this year he gets $650,000 to play on the Marlies.



It is you that clearly does not understand contracts. There are more examples from last year I just do not feel like looking them up. You using Collin Greening and staying he played for $70,000 is a joke and very wrong.

A sorry I was wrong would be nice but expect you will not .

 

[Mess]

A closer look at cap allocation across the NHL


All National Hockey League teams are challenged with the question of how best to allocate salary in a hard cap environment. For the 2018-19 season, that means teams must spend at least $58.8 million (the cap floor) on player payroll, but no more than $79.8 million (the cap ceiling).

The allocation question is a fascinating one because teams have different visions on how best to construct a Stanley Cup-calibre roster. Some organizations consistently run top-heavy payrolls that see superstars eat into huge portions of the available cap space. Other organizations, perhaps borne out of the necessity of not having superstar players available, prefer flatter spending across the board. Some teams will carve out large pieces of their cap space for their forward group – others, the same, but for defencemen or goaltending.

Now that it’s mid-August and most restricted free agent arbitration cases have resolved, we have a general sense of what each team’s cap position will be entering the 2018-19 season. As is the case every year, there’s a pretty significant divide in player payroll. Contending teams like St. Louis, Pittsburgh, and Washington have $1 million or less in cap space to work with. More fiscally conservative teams like New Jersey and Carolina have nearly $20 million in space. Then there are teams like Toronto that are flush with cap space (about $14 million today), but know full well that much of that will be utilized to retain future free agents like Auston Matthews,, Mitch Marner, Jake Gardiner, and so on.

Continued: https://www.tsn.ca/talent/a-closer-look-at-cap-allocation-across-the-nhl-1.1155330

 

[IBeL34f]

Go and look things up before you keep embarrassing your self. Greening played last year on a one way contract that paid him $750,000 to play as a Marlie or as a Leaf.

This year Holl will make $650,000 no matter where he plays . Leafs have done this all along as they make their waiver eligible players as unattractive as possible by over paying them a little in hopes of deterring other teams from claiming them.

Marincin just signed a one way contract for this year for $800,000.

Pickard just signed another contract for $800,000 another one way contract. Last year he was also on a one way contract that paid him 1.075m.

LoVerde player on a one way deal last year for $700,000 and this year he gets $750,000 on a one way deal.

Mueller was paid $400,000 last year and this year he gets $650,000 to play on the Marlies.



It is you that clearly does not understand contracts. There are more examples from last year I just do not feel like looking them up. You using Collin Greening and staying he played for $70,000 is a joke and very wrong.

A sorry I was wrong would be nice but expect you will not .

Well, at least we've proven that several professional hockey players will still play for less than $1.25M/year.

 

[diceman934]

Well, at least we've proven that several professional hockey players will still play for less than $1.25M/year.

Yes I have but how many will play for 1.25m after earning almost 100m when they are 40 years old entering that year. That is the question to be answered. None of those players I have quoted have many anywhere near what Marleau has many nor are they 40 years old. Context is real important.