2019/20 Roster Thread XXX - AKA the Ghost Thread

[Larry44]

Uhhh... what happened to Farabee with Couts & Jake? They put the kid in a position to succeed, and he did just that.

Hayes doesn't make his linemates better. He elevates no one. Laughton has been a ****ing disgrace lately. Yet, here we are. 3rd line for Scoot. He should be a lot closer to a scratch than 3rd line.

If I had to guess, I'd say they want Raffl with Couts/Jake as a checking line vs. Pens.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

~60% of all NHL skaters shifts start On The Fly. I also struggle to comprehend why so much importance is placed on zone starts. It only has an effect at a micro-level on shot differential on a shift-to-shift/in-game basis. Taken at a macro-level, it has no statistically significant effect on shot differential.

Which begs the question: Why does anyone give a **** about zone starts if there is research out there that show that they’ve only been shown to be statistically significant in extremely small samples?

For further reading if anyone needs further convincing:
How much do zone starts matter part I: (Maybe) not as much as we thought

How much do zone starts matter part II: A lot on their own, not that much in aggregate


The second article in particular sheds a lot of light on this topic.

Even beyond this I love how people only use it as. Lots of OZS = bad a defence and never that it might mean good at offense. Or that maybe a coach doesn't give some guys OZS because they are bad at offense and he doesn't want to waste an offensive zone face off win on offensive black holes.

 

[Striiker]

I don't think they've been good offensively as a pair either. They've flashed, but the overall effectiveness is lacking.

Myers bombs away from 55' entirely too much for my liking.

Hes been very mediocre this year. Insane scoring luck but outside of that...

 

[Ghosts Beer]

If a coach is extreme in avoiding defensive zone starts for a player, it’s a pretty obvious inference that he doesn’t trust his defensive zone play. It’s usually because of some combination of inexperience & lack of size/strength.

The 10 least def zone faceoffs/60 this season:
E. Petterson
Malgin
J. Hughes
Hoffman
Vatrano
Dobson
Kotkaniemi
Kyrou
Frost
Barzal

Coaches don’t want to lose the draw & then have players who will get outmuscled in battles and/or who stray out of position.

 

[Striiker]

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Then Coaches should deploy that way instead of the current fairly balanced splitting method.

Why are we looking at DZF/60 ranks? It tosses scale completely out the window.

The difference between "tough" and "easy" Faceoff Zone Starts for Ivan Provorov this year is taking 82 of his 1,108 5v5 Shifts and moving them from DZone Faceoffs to OZone Faceoffs. He's played 50 Games. That's 1.64 Shifts/Game, or about 12.7% of the Shifts That Don't Matter taken by Chris Stewart on the average this year when Dressed.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If a coach can't find a way to make Frost more useful than Bunnaman then maybe that coach isn't much of a brain-genius.

 

[Striiker]

It's always an appeal to authority from certain people.

If coaches do something, then it was definitely the right thing to do. They'd never misevaluate a player.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Goaltending depth is important

I've never seen a goaltender play deeper than Lyon - his whole body is usually inside the net - so you really should be a big fan of his.

 

[FlyerNutter]

I've never seen a goaltender play deeper than Lyon - his whole body is usually inside the net - so you really should be a big fan of his.

Lol what?

Completely lost what with ya mean.

 

[deadhead]

Huh....so he was doing ok. Imagine that. I was fine with him being a 30+ point pace C while getting 3rd line minutes. Hell, it's what Patrick was the last 2 years....and Patrick was more infuriating by being MIA until mid Jan both years.

The odd thing is, if they had demoted Frost on Dec 6th after going pointless in 7 straight games, you could understand demoting him to try and get confidence going. But after that stretch, he had 4 points in his last 9 games. So he got thru the patch that likely frustrated him and he was back to a 36 point pace....all at ES. So he was doing fine.

It just seems like they "hung" that SJ game on him on the 1st game back from X-Mas break and yet the goals, to my recollection, were not on him. Hell, he had a CF of 52.17% that game, scoring chances were 10-7 in our favour when he was on the ice...as were high danger at 5-4. And yet it was Couts, G, TK that got smoked...all 37.5 or below CF% while scoring chanced were crushed 3-12, 3-11, 4-12.

Just saying.

Last 9 games for Frost:
CF 45.03%, xGF 42.97%, HDCF 41.67%
CFrel -6.72, xGFrel -10.06, HDCFrel -5.62
The "rel" numbers show that his fall off wasn't due to his linemates.

That's not good, especially for a 3C.
That's why he was sent down, not whether he scored 0 or 4 points.

 

[TCTC]

Frost wasn't good. He was better than Bunnaman, but that's not hard to accomplish. That's also why Frost's development is more important. He was cleary overwhelmed and he was starting to lose his confidence.

 

[Tripod]

So he has been dealing with a knee issue thru the year. That is good to know and hopefully now once fully recovered, he can put it behind him.

I "think" he will be scratched Friday to give an extra day of rest...and then a game time decision on Saturday. They might give him that one off too since it gives him off till Monday.

 

[FlyTimmo]

I thought Frost was pretty good

 

[deadhead]

Ghost in the last five years has had an ACL, hip injury, knee injury last year, knee injury this year.
Now I'm shocked that an undersized defensemen (both size and strength) could possibly be injury prone in a non-contact sport like ice hockey.

Given his value on the PP and offensive zone starts, I'd be prudent and limit Ghost's minutes 5x5 where he's basically mediocre, and keep him off the ice on the PK and holding a lead in the 3rd period.

It's called "asset management."

 

[Striiker]

Liars gonna lie.

 

[deadhead]

Fools will ignore the obvious.

 

[DancingPanther]

Shockingly the roster thread is arguing about Ghost, this time giving no credence to a nagging knee injury.

 

[deadhead]

Shockingly the roster thread is arguing about Ghost, this time giving no credence to a nagging knee injury.

I'm sure the injuries have hurt his performance, given his production is more dependent on quickness and agility than most players, any lower body injury that saps those skills is going to hurt his performance. Dings will impact his play as well as major injuries (compare to Provorov who was one of our best players in the Pens PO series despite playing essentially with one arm, or Couts shining despite a bad knee).

The problem is that these injuries are becoming the "norm" for Ghost, and some of that may be due to his frame, he's just not very strong and he has been injury prone. And there's a lot of contact over an 82 game season.

These kind of players tend to have up and down careers, when healthy they can put together good seasons, intermixed with the "off" seasons.
So far, Ghost has had 2 good seasons in 4 1/2 years, he may finish strong this year, he may get dinged again.

It doesn't mean Ghost lacks value, rather, he should be viewed as a complementary piece, but not as a core player because you can't count on him staying healthy.

Which is why I totally agree with how AV has used him, keep the work load down and hope he stays healthy.
I think Niskanen has been overworked, given his age, but that reflects the limited options with Ghost dinged, Morin out, Sanheim and Myers inconsistent, and Hagg as your other option.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Saw some video of the Flyers practicing the PK today.

They were using the 3-2 or pentagon formation I like, but they had the half boards guys on the off-wing (Giroux on the left, Hayes on the right). JVR with his back to the goal on Hayes side (stick toward the wall), & similarly TK on G’s side.

May be the rare occasion where the majority of us are placated.

 

[Striiker]

I thought Frost was pretty good

You're correct, he was.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Let's try some common sense since you seem to be lacking with you today.

Giroux Frost Konecny.....do you think that "makes" Frost our #1C? Or does common sense kick in say that Couts is our #1C regardless what mix of top 6 wingers he has?

If you were being HONEST with what people have been saying, it's that we want Frost to play with TALENTED players so that it helps match his skills AND it keeps Giroux and Couts on different lines. An by being on different lines, it means we are harder to play against. AND it means Hayes is on another line so hopefully we are icing 3 lines that can produce. And guess what, if you have 3 lines that can produce, then no line has all the pressure every game. Having Frost play with G and TK allows you to "spread" the talent.

G Frost TK-gets offensive minutes, is a scoring line, G can help with FO
Farabee Couts Jake-another scoring line...but a 2 way line too
JVR Hayes NAK-Hayes gets to play with 2 guys who don't need the puck on their stick
Laughton Raffl Pitlick-that should be a good 4th line that is solid defensively but can also chip in goals.

So again....just so you can not spread incorrect info, having Frost play with G and TK does NOT mean anyone thinks he is the #1C. It means he will get/should get 3rd line minutes overall as he would be our 3rd best C.

Understand now?

First off, it's pretty obvious what my post was "angling" at, I know you're smart enough to get that


Second. When did Coots become the Flyers #1 Center? Was it before or after they moved G to wing? and if after...was it game 1? 5? 25? 82? When does that title change?

I have read articles referencing each team's topline center...or #1 center. In each, there are various criteria for making that call, and quality/skill of linemates is most definitely one...but interpretation is another

Why is Matthews listed unanimously as TO's #1 center despite Tavares being better?

How is it possible that Drai played C his whole career, and was considered a winger by many cuz he played w/ McD, but now they've seperated for like 5 games and NOBODY considers, nor should ever consider Nuge their #2 center?

Why is Stamkos still considered TBs #1?

Lastly, as I'm sure you are aware...Claude Giroux is now centering our "top line", and they've been hot. If that trend continues, up until next X-mas per say, and G continues with 1st PP usage over Coots...is he NEVER capable of being considered the Flyers #1 center?

Cuz I'll tell ya, most definitely articles and references ALL around the hockey world will be labeling him as so

 

[Starat327]

...what did I just read?

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Lol what?

Completely lost what with ya mean.

You said goaltending depth is important. He is a goaltender with depth. Because he plays so deep in the net.

Now stare at this and think about what you have done:

 

[Striiker]

...what did I just read?

Word vomit.

Some people put themselves in a hole and don't know how to stop digging.