2019-20 Kings News/Rumors

[bland]

That's an unfortunately narrow-minded and warped view. Especially since all teams use them in one way or another

And the sport, frankly, has never been worse than it is right now. Its just collected data, most often poorly interpreted and not an actual reflection of what determined the game. Its the equivalent of trying to explain the joy of a road trip by showing a road map.

Celebrating volume over quality doesn't do anybody any favors. It over-inflates the value of unimportant aspects of the game, and no stat line has ever accurately depicted the qualities of grit, character and timing - the real distinctions of a winning team.

 

[Bandit]

And the sport, frankly, has never been worse than it is right now. Its just collected data, most often poorly interpreted and not an actual reflection of what determined the game. Its the equivalent of trying to explain the joy of a road trip by showing a road map.

Celebrating volume over quality doesn't do anybody any favors. It over-inflates the value of unimportant aspects of the game, and no stat line has ever accurately depicted the qualities of grit, character and timing - the real distinctions of a winning team.

One word: midichlorians

 

[BigKing]

Do you not remember the 1st period in Calgary? When was the last time you saw the Kings absolutely dominate another team that way for a whole period? Same thing with the Nashville game. I find it hard to believe you really don't think you have seen good hockey out there.

Those aren't fancy numbers, they are very basic numbers. The Kings are out chancing their opposition by a wide margin, I think we all can agree that that is a good thing.

That's two periods. That isn't even a full game.

It's nice that they are out chancing their opponents, but I don't think it's just bad luck
that they aren't finishing: they just suck at finishing.

Are there flashes of good hockey? Sure. There was last year too.

As for how entertaining they are: it's a subjective thing. No big deal.

 

[crassbonanza]

It's nice that they are out chancing their opponents, but I don't think it's just bad luck
that they aren't finishing: they just suck at finishing.

Despite being shutout the previous 2 games, the Kings are actually 5th in the league at even strength goals for per 60.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Not to sound out of touch, but I know what I see out there and it isn't good hockey no matter what the fancy numbers say.

Better than last year? I don't know. More fun? Sure. It's still not a lot of fun though.

Say it's not entertaining because they're not scoring for the last two games, fine.

But objectively, no offense, but that's total crap. And ignores the big picture.

And the sport, frankly, has never been worse than it is right now. Its just collected data, most often poorly interpreted and not an actual reflection of what determined the game. Its the equivalent of trying to explain the joy of a road trip by showing a road map.

Celebrating volume over quality doesn't do anybody any favors. It over-inflates the value of unimportant aspects of the game, and no stat line has ever accurately depicted the qualities of grit, character and timing - the real distinctions of a winning team.

But they're not. The point is they're generating high danger chances as an elite team as well. It's not just volume. You're deliberately trying not to listen so you don't have to answer to it.

Will fully agree on the second--you need intangibles too--but the TANGIBLES are absolutely friggin right there in front of us in plain stat, advanced stat, and eye test form, except that a few people want to break it down to "yeah but did we WIN in a two game sample size?"

I think some of us are looking bigger picture here, that there are extremely positive trends that buck last season right out the door.

That's two periods. That isn't even a full game.

It's nice that they are out chancing their opponents, but I don't think it's just bad luck
that they aren't finishing: they just suck at finishing.

Are there flashes of good hockey? Sure. There was last year too.

As for how entertaining they are: it's a subjective thing. No big deal.

They absolutely suck at finishing.

They're still near the top of the league in goals for due to the raw volume of high danger chances they're generating.

If you want to say you weren't entertained by the Nashville or last Calgary game, then maybe hockey doesn't have anything for you anymore.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

What I DONT understand is people who are rooting for the team to fail for a pick are complaining about the team failing, but hey.

I'm going to go ahead and say those trends are actually going to find us in a winning streak starting as soon as tonight and that's going to upset the same people.

 

[King'sPawn]

And the sport, frankly, has never been worse than it is right now. Its just collected data, most often poorly interpreted and not an actual reflection of what determined the game. Its the equivalent of trying to explain the joy of a road trip by showing a road map.

Celebrating volume over quality doesn't do anybody any favors. It over-inflates the value of unimportant aspects of the game, and no stat line has ever accurately depicted the qualities of grit, character and timing - the real distinctions of a winning team.

You're talking about people who misuse advanced stats. Like any tool, if you misuse it, it's worthless.

Nobody is celebrating volume over quantity. And like all data, the smaller the sample size, the more worthless it is. It is quantifying various aspects of the game. Frankly, we're still in a very early phase of analytics, which is why:
1) not everyone understands it
2) it gets misused and misrepresented
3) the data collected may not be complete/properly presented

Who knows, advanced stats may start focusing on grittier aspects of the game; when and where certain hits happen, shot blocks occur, etc. Players may eventually start wearing biometric vests which tracks their vitals, and how much effort and speed is being exerted.

While you may not like advanced stats, you are mistakenly dismissive of its potential to give coaches another perspective. Especially since coaches (like fans) are Human, and those traits you value are subjective to Human error and bias.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

You're talking about people who misuse advanced stats. Like any tool, if you misuse it, it's worthless.

Nobody is celebrating volume over quantity. And like all data, the smaller the sample size, the more worthless it is. It is quantifying various aspects of the game. Frankly, we're still in a very early phase of analytics, which is why:
1) not everyone understands it
2) it gets misused and misrepresented
3) the data collected may not be complete/properly presented

Who knows, advanced stats may start focusing on grittier aspects of the game; when and where certain hits happen, shot blocks occur, etc. Players may eventually start wearing biometric vests which tracks their vitals, and how much effort and speed is being exerted.

While you may not like advanced stats, you are mistakenly dismissive of its potential to give coaches another perspective. Especially since coaches (like fans) are Human, and those traits you value are subjective to Human error and bias.

This isn't at you, just a general observation.

Literally no one here is looking only at advanced stats. We're all watching the same games together, and using our eyes to do both things.

Saying something like "this isn't entertaining" is subjective. That's fine. Saying we're not even generating scoring chances--that's just awfully wrong by any measure.

I believe heavily in hockey's intangibles. I don't think anyone could say they're a Kings fan who watched 2012 or 2014 and believe otherwise. Timing is huge, goals can be backbreaking, and momentum is a thing. But I also believe in the bigger picture, if you take literally 80% of the chances in a game against Buffalo, you're going to win that game 9 out of 10 times, except the 10th game where your former superstar Russian just f***ing doesn't care about the system, you hit posts, score goals on yourself, etc...those are trends that won't continue. And I guess that's where the disagreement sprouts from. Even the Canes and Sabres fans admitted publicly they were puckering their butts the whole time and got wins they didn't necessarily deserve. Those are one loss teams and we dominated the games in manners that hardly happen in professional hockey. It happens and you don't always get the result you 'deserve,' but if you play 82 games according to positive trends, things will look up. I don't at all see why that's controversial.

 

[seamore]

Love the optimism. Hope you're right!

What I DONT understand is people who are rooting for the team to fail for a pick are complaining about the team failing, but hey.

I'm going to go ahead and say those trends are actually going to find us in a winning streak starting as soon as tonight and that's going to upset the same people.

 

[tbrown33]

...has anyone looked at Sean Walker's peripherals lately? I know it's a small sample size but...he's outpacing the next guy (Auston Matthews) by 40 shot attempts.

And he's not doing it in a cheap way, either. Check out that xGF%!

All with a 53.8 defensive zone start %! What a gem this guy is.

 

[tbrown33]

And to anyone who thinks the Kings are a "quantity over quality" team...*ahem*

 

[tbrown33]

Of course, in typical Kings fashion, we are second to last in PDO. Except this time it's not because of our shot percentage, it's our save percentage. If they can right that ship, the Kings are...pretty good?

Granted, the sample size IS small and it's only been 8 games. The road trip will be a test - but considering the Kings are still developing under this system and the goaltending has been unsustainably poor, there is reason for optimism.

 

[crassbonanza]

Last nights game was a perfect example of what the possession metrics were saying, the way the team has been playing so far this season you should expect results like that. The Kings have been dominating possession in damn near every game that they have played outside of the Vancouver mess. There have been some rough goals against that probably should have been saved and some unlucky bounces for the offense, but overall their game has been top notch. I don't know why people are so intent on ignoring all of the positives we have seen so far this season.

 

[tbrown33]

Last nights game was a perfect example of what the possession metrics were saying, the way the team has been playing so far this season you should expect results like that. The Kings have been dominating possession in damn near every game that they have played outside of the Vancouver mess. There have been some rough goals against that probably should have been saved and some unlucky bounces for the offense, but overall their game has been top notch. I don't know why people are so intent on ignoring all of the positives we have seen so far this season.

Surprisingly for many of us, there are reasons to be optimistic for once!

The Kings lost to Buffalo 3-0 but they DOMINATED that game. They could have had close to 60 (!!!) shots on goal if even half those shots that went wide hit the net. Lots of Grade A chances that game too — hot goaltender, though.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

Sean Walker has been a pleasant surprise indeed

 

[crassbonanza]

Surprisingly for many of us, there are reasons to be optimistic for once!

The Kings lost to Buffalo 3-0 but they DOMINATED that game. They could have had close to 60 (!!!) shots on goal if even half those shots that went wide hit the net. Lots of Grade A chances that game too — hot goaltender, though.

Yeah, I think they had 42 scoring chances that game, it was insane

 

[LAKings88]

Honestly no matter how well they do it’s a selling season. Two or more guys will be shipped out at the deadline. Tanking doesn’t even really matter thanks to the lottery. It’s a deep draft. They will get a good player or two. Next year is the handoff to the youngsters. They are still years away from competing again. Won’t be surprised if Kopi gets traded before his contract is up. Maybe even Brown.

It was the best ever Kings Era for awhile. Next era is on the horizon. Time will tell what that will be or if those solid prospects will turn out.

 

[Statto]

I AM a guy who ****s on advanced stats. They mean absolutely nothing. Hockey is now and has always been a game of managing tone and momentum, rising and falling to occasions. Its winning or losing key battles, trusting or mistrusting your teammates. Recovering from or succombing to challenges.

The same folks who put stock in metrics also tend to be the ones who believe in luck to explain why the team with tbe best numbers loses. Its all just nonsense, and a fundamental misunderstanding of the game.

We can debate the level of value but to say they mean nothing is so wrong it isn't funny. The other things you mention of course play a significant part also. If the numbers are meaningless then they are being used very incorrectly and/or not understood.

 

[Statto]

And the sport, frankly, has never been worse than it is right now. Its just collected data, most often poorly interpreted and not an actual reflection of what determined the game. Its the equivalent of trying to explain the joy of a road trip by showing a road map.

Celebrating volume over quality doesn't do anybody any favors. It over-inflates the value of unimportant aspects of the game, and no stat line has ever accurately depicted the qualities of grit, character and timing - the real distinctions of a winning team.

Completely agree how the numbers are forever being misunderstood. I mean, come on, most people don't understand how plus/minus works... everyone that calls it a meaningless stat doesn't understand it and its far more straightforward than most of the advanced metric stuff.

 

[Fishhead]

Advanced stats are what they are - stats. They just tell part of the story.

I wouldn't go so far as to call them meaningless though. They are a better predictor of success and situations than just about anything out there.

There's a reason every team in the league has a stats guru - they can be quite useful when used correctly and can help with strategies against teams. For example, ZSR (zone start ratio) is a great indicator of forecheck ability. Everyone knows teams like Vegas, Carolina, Colorado, Winnipeg, Boston, and Calgary focus on the forecheck, and they usually lead in this stat. If you have a team coming in with high ZSR numbers who doesn't traditionally push the forecheck, it tips off coaches and scouts to focus on that area to see what is going on.

 

[Ghetty Green]

All we need is a third Russian to go with Kovalchuk and Prokhorkin and and they can be the three stooges:

Shanky, Spanky and Wanky.

Terrible attempt at comedy

 

[Bandit]

Terrible attempt at comedy

Working on my dad jokes. Glad this is what's keeping you up at 2am though.

 

[Lt Dan]

Working on my dad jokes. Glad this is what's keeping you up at 2am though.

FTR- I laughed at it. But I laugh at a lot

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I was just trying to figure out who was who.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

What I DONT understand is people who are rooting for the team to fail for a pick are complaining about the team failing, but hey.

I'm going to go ahead and say those trends are actually going to find us in a winning streak starting as soon as tonight and that's going to upset the same people.

Personally, I’m just along for the ride at this point. If they totally tank and get a shot at Lafreniere, great. If they improve a bit and put together some nice winning streaks with the youth contributing, that’s great, too.

20/21 is the real starting line for me as Turcotte, Kupari, and likely Kaliyev will be in the NHL.

The most important thing is for management to embrace the rebuild, stick to a vision, and forge a new identity/culture.