2019-20 Kings News/Rumors

[KINGS17]

My premise is simple, this is a hard cap league. ELC players, particularly highly rated prospects, provide a ton of value in a cap league due to their performance vs contract.

That value means nothing if you waste those ELC years by not spending to the cap to maximize the money you are saving on them.

The trick is not spending money on longterm contracts that will be there years after you sign the second contract of these ELC players.

However it's difficult to convince impact players to sign 3 or 4 year contracts when they can get 8 from someone else. Kopis is perfect for us.

Most of these kids won't be on their ELC's, because they won't be on the roster next season. Sounds to me like you are saying when they do show up in a couple of years at best, they are going to become immediate impact players and the Kings will still have two years remaining on Kopitar's contract to reap the rewards. It is extremely unlikely these kids will be impact players right away. Kopitar's contract will be over and they will be on the cusp of being impact players (we all hope).

So again, I don't think the Kings will be contenders before Kopitar's contract expires, and I am not convinced Kopitar is going to drive the bus when the kids arrive.

 

[Rusty Batch]

Most of these kids won't be on their ELC's, because they won't be on the roster next season. Sounds to me like you are saying when they do show up in a couple of years at best, they are going to become immediate impact players and the Kings will still have two years remaining on Kopitar's contract to reap the rewards. It is extremely unlikely these kids will be impact players right away. Kopitar's contract will be over and they will be on the cusp of being impact players (we all hope).

So again, I don't think the Kings will be contenders before Kopitar's contract expires, and I am not convinced Kopitar is going to drive the bus when the kids arrive.

I think you are purposefully trying to not understand my position. Mine is a position that is all about cap implications, maximizing the ELC contracts we have, and not mortgaging our future.
But it's all good, we can move on.

 

[KINGS17]

I think you are purposefully trying to not understand my position. Mine is a position that is all about cap implications, maximizing the ELC contracts we have, and not mortgaging our future.
But it's all good, we can move on.

It's fine. Your basic position is Kopitar is perfect for the Kings. I understand you.

Kopitar's contract has four years to run after this season. The last rebuild took six years before the Kings contended, and they are supposedly starting in a much bigger hole (a position I agree with). The time I estimate it will take the Kings to contend and the term remaining on Kopitar's contract tells me he isn't perfect for the Kings. Maybe they get lucky and land a generational talent in this year's draft. That's the only thing that would speed up my estimate.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

My bias is obviously such that we keep Kopitar, but I'm still not exactly sure why everyone acts like he's going to be dead at 36.

The AAV of his contract is going to be no hindrance over the deal--if it is, that's a good problem, because it means many of our prospects went nuclear.

In addition, I can imagine a 36-38 year old Kopitar STILL being a monster 2C-3C at worst (imagine Kopitar getting 15 minutes a game instead of #1 d-man minutes!), and he'll undoubtedly come a lot cheaper at that point.

If we don't contend, Kopitar here is a good mentor and steadying force for the youth. If we do contend, great. Trading him for assets to a team like Colorado or something would be fantastic but we'd have a big gaping hole at C for a bit and a long-term rudderless ship much more like the Oilers or Sabres than anyone else.

I mean, if we're not even contending at all for the next four years, that's a bit of a different problem...

 

[DoktorJeep]

When Kopitar broke into the league, his most frequent linemates were Brown, POS, Squid and Frolov.

He didn’t play with vets like Calder and Nagy.

Kopitar won’t be the guy to mentor the kids. He’ll be our $10m a year 3rd line center with Iafallo and Brown in 2 years if the kids are actually good.

 

[crassbonanza]

long term I see him as a RWinger not a Centre

May I ask why? Vilardi profiles as a prototypical center; his passing ability, puck control, and hockey IQ is through the roof.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

I also said prospects (as in plural). The Kings prospectS as a group are not all that great. You get it now?

Who among them, and how many are going to come into the NHL and eat major minutes within the next three seasons? By my reckoning the Kings need at least three. So no, the Kings prospects on the back end will not be in a position to support a contending run in three seasons.

Right, you started by saying prospects plural... But then you said "Some good ones, but great ones, I don't think so." Which implies that you admit some of those prospects are good but that you don't think any of them are great. Don't talk to me like I'm an idiot when you're the one who didn't choose your words well enough.

But enough with the 'who said what' and 'who meant what'... within the next three seasons?? Well, Bjornfot could very well be with the Kings next season, so I imagine he's eating pretty big minutes three seasons from now. I also imagine Mikey Anderson is getting decent minutes three seasons from now the way a lot of people talk about him (I'm still not sold on him, but haven't watched him play much so will have to see). Who knows, maybe Clague gets better defensively in which case he could definitely be a pretty big part of the team 3 seasons from now. All of this is speculation of course at this point, but there's 3 right there.

There's others that could surprise too, just like maybe not all of those 3 work out. Maybe a guy like Durzi takes a big step forward next season. He's in his first year of professional hockey and has been pretty solid.

While maybe none of our defensive prospects are 'blue chip' there's still plenty of them that are really good players and have the potential to take fairly significant roles on the Kings. But at the end of the day, you're right on at least one thing.. It would be nice to add a blue chip defenseman to our pool.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I would be more on board with this sentiment if the Kings had started their rebuild a little sooner, as Boston did.

Pulling the #1 overall out of the lottery could change everything though in that regard. If that happened, then yes contending in three seasons may be a real possibility.

Did Boston really ever pull off a rebuild?

 

[kilowatt]

I don’t think it can be overstated how important and exciting watching young players make the team is for the fanbase. I can’t remember the last time I watched a game this closely. Years, probably.

 

[cyclones22]

My bias is obviously such that we keep Kopitar, but I'm still not exactly sure why everyone acts like he's going to be dead at 36.

I think he's going to be the Slovenian Mats Sundin. That's how I feel his game will age. He'll still be effective at age 36. Unless he suddenly becomes brittle, which I don't see happening.

 

[Rusty Batch]

This is a board full of diehard Kings fans. People here mostly are knowledgeable hockey fans. Unfortunately the downside to giving your opinions constantly is that it's easy to back yourself into a corner where you have to defend silly positions.

I think most people don't actually even believe some of the crazy positions that they take.

 

[Legionnaire]

They do. They do.

 

[KINGS17]

My bias is obviously such that we keep Kopitar, but I'm still not exactly sure why everyone acts like he's going to be dead at 36.

The AAV of his contract is going to be no hindrance over the deal--if it is, that's a good problem, because it means many of our prospects went nuclear.

In addition, I can imagine a 36-38 year old Kopitar STILL being a monster 2C-3C at worst (imagine Kopitar getting 15 minutes a game instead of #1 d-man minutes!), and he'll undoubtedly come a lot cheaper at that point.

If we don't contend, Kopitar here is a good mentor and steadying force for the youth. If we do contend, great. Trading him for assets to a team like Colorado or something would be fantastic but we'd have a big gaping hole at C for a bit and a long-term rudderless ship much more like the Oilers or Sabres than anyone else.

I mean, if we're not even contending at all for the next four years, that's a bit of a different problem...

At one time we supposed a workout warrior Carter would be effective into his late 30's. The odds are against it. There is a reason people mention only a few players like Mats Sundin when discussing older players who were still effective, it's because there are not many of them.

Kopitar is 32 years of age now. Jeff Carter was awesome at age 32, now he is 35 and not so awesome. Granted Carter had a serious injury, but injuries that occur later in a career that are harder for older guys to recover from is another reason why there aren't many players in the NHL that are over 35 years of age.

Due to his contract, I don't think Kopitar has a lot of appeal for other teams in a trade. I just disagree with the premise he is perfect for the Kings because in two years all of these awesome youngsters on ELCs are going to be on the roster. The calvary isn't coming that soon, and when they do arrive they are going of have to learn to shoot while riding a galloping horse. It won't happen that fast unless the Kings get lucky in the lottery and draft a generational talent. Now that would be nice.

 

[KINGS17]

May I ask why? Vilardi profiles as a prototypical center; his passing ability, puck control, and hockey IQ is through the roof.

Yeah, from what I have seen so far I prefer Vilardi in the middle of the ice making decisions on distributing the puck.

 

[KINGS17]

This is a board full of diehard Kings fans. People here mostly are knowledgeable hockey fans. Unfortunately the downside to giving your opinions constantly is that it's easy to back yourself into a corner where you have to defend silly positions.

I think most people don't actually even believe some of the crazy positions that they take.

Don't worry no one is holding it against you.

 

[KINGS17]

When Kopitar broke into the league, his most frequent linemates were Brown, POS, Squid and Frolov.

He didn’t play with vets like Calder and Nagy.

Kopitar won’t be the guy to mentor the kids. He’ll be our $10m a year 3rd line center with Iafallo and Brown in 2 years if the kids are actually good.

Brown is on his last deal and it is up after two more seasons. Honestly, I am not expecting our kids that are 18-20 years old today to be tearing up the Pacific Division in three years. Not when the likes of McJesus and Draisaitl are in their mid-twenties.

While Kopitar may still be an extremely competent 2C, or even maybe a 1C, it isn't going to matter, because the Kings youngsters are not going to be fully baked in three years. I mean we are talking about a 20-year old Vilardi, a 18-year old Turcotte, a 19-year old Kaliyev, and Mr. X from this year's draft.

A lot of seasoning still to be added to that mix before they even begin to smell like real contenders. They are going to likely get their butts kicked for a regular season or two, then they are going to go through the growing pains of getting thumped in the playoffs once or twice, then maybe you have something after that.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

At one time we supposed a workout warrior Carter would be effective into his late 30's. The odds are against it. There is a reason people mention only a few players like Mats Sundin when discussing older players who were still effective, it's because there are not many of them.

Kopitar is 32 years of age now. Jeff Carter was awesome at age 32, now he is 35 and not so awesome. Granted Carter had a serious injury, but injuries that occur later in a career that are harder for older guys to recover from is another reason why there aren't many players in the NHL that are over 35 years of age.

Due to his contract, I don't think Kopitar has a lot of appeal for other teams in a trade. I just disagree with the premise he is perfect for the Kings because in two years all of these awesome youngsters on ELCs are going to be on the roster. The calvary isn't coming that soon, and when they do arrive they are going of have to learn to shoot while riding a galloping horse. It won't happen that fast unless the Kings get lucky in the lottery and draft a generational talent. Now that would be nice.

Well, I mean, anyone can get a freak catastrophic injury at any time. If that ends up being the reason for Kopitar's decline, that's not something you get to say "i told you so" about.

And I wouldn't call Carter ineffective when he'd be in the top 3-5 of goal scoring of literally any team in the league (except WSH where he'd be #6) while coming back from that injury on a terribad offensive team.

I suspect Kopitar will be less awesome at 36 but what I said was especially in a reduced role especially he should still be an effective player and is the perfect model for our youngsters to learn from. There's not a forward in the league I want my players to learn two-way hockey from more than Kopitar. I agree that I don't think the turnover will be two years for the prospects, but I think Kopitar and Doughty supplementing said prospects are going to help them grow quicker than throwing Eichel into a shit shake in the blender will.

 

[KINGS17]

Well, I mean, anyone can get a freak catastrophic injury at any time. If that ends up being the reason for Kopitar's decline, that's not something you get to say "i told you so" about.

And I wouldn't call Carter ineffective when he'd be in the top 3-5 of goal scoring of literally any team in the league (except WSH where he'd be #6) while coming back from that injury on a terribad offensive team.

I suspect Kopitar will be less awesome at 36 but what I said was especially in a reduced role especially he should still be an effective player and is the perfect model for our youngsters to learn from. There's not a forward in the league I want my players to learn two-way hockey from more than Kopitar. I agree that I don't think the turnover will be two years for the prospects, but I think Kopitar and Doughty supplementing said prospects are going to help them grow quicker than throwing Eichel into a shit shake in the blender will.

I am not sold on Kopitar and Doughty, especially Doughty, being great mentors. If I like how the product is performing in service over the next couple of years though, I may become a buyer.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I am not sold on Kopitar and Doughty, especially Doughty, being great mentors. If I like how the product is performing in service over the next couple of years though, I may become a buyer.

Kopitar is a model citizen, a tremendous two way player, widely admired around the nhl and world as a hockey ambassador. If he's not a good mentor, no one is.

I'm not talking about him picking up Vilardi on his shoulders and carrying him into the net scoring 90 points a year, I'm talking about a guy who has the patience and attention to detail to show these kids what it means to be a pro and how hard it is to redevelop that winning pedigree.

Doughty I'm less sold on in that regard because he's kind of a petulant bitch but I'm bullish on Kopitar, I can't think of a forward in the NHL I'd rather have kids strictly learn from.

 

[kilowatt]

There's a pretty big difference between being a mentor and being an excellent player that demands the attention of opposing defenses. Hopefully, at the very least, guys like Kopitar, Carter, and Doughty can do that over the next three years while our top prospects join the team and learn how to be pros. If in three years, Kopitar is playing as the second or third line center and still playing fairly great defense, this team will be in a very good position.

 

[TruKingFan]

Petulant bitch describes Doughty to a T. But he’s a King and that’s fine by me.

 

[King'sPawn]

Kopitar is a model citizen, a tremendous two way player, widely admired around the nhl and world as a hockey ambassador. If he's not a good mentor, no one is.

I'm not talking about him picking up Vilardi on his shoulders and carrying him into the net scoring 90 points a year, I'm talking about a guy who has the patience and attention to detail to show these kids what it means to be a pro and how hard it is to redevelop that winning pedigree.

Doughty I'm less sold on in that regard because he's kind of a petulant bitch but I'm bullish on Kopitar, I can't think of a forward in the NHL I'd rather have kids strictly learn from.

Kopitar will always be underappreciated by some until he's gone.

 

[kings11]

Kopitar will always be underappreciated by some until he's gone.

Most people look towards his stats to help determine why he plays the way he does...
Fact is, he’s been one of if not the best all around forward this past decade.
But I always like saying the following...
Put Malkin/Crosby/Tavares/Toews/Kane/Stamkos/
Bergeron/MacKinnon/Matthews/McDavid/Drai..
In CDS physically demanding, grinding style and see what type of opinion you come up with.. I’d bet half would have gone the way of Mike Richards from the physical toll..
Anze Kopitar is to the LA Kings, what Kawhi Leonard was to the Spurs... Underappreciated!

 

[KingsFan7824]

This is a board full of diehard Kings fans. People here mostly are knowledgeable hockey fans. Unfortunately the downside to giving your opinions constantly is that it's easy to back yourself into a corner where you have to defend silly positions.

I think most people don't actually even believe some of the crazy positions that they take.

One problem is that one event can have multiple angles to it, and they can all be correct. Re-signing Kopitar was both the right and wrong thing to do. They simply weren't going to trade him when they were in 1st place in 2016. In the summer of 2015, they were still "only" a year removed, and DL was not even thinking about doing that, since he went all in for Lucic. They weren't going to let him walk. However, signing him to that deal hurt the team in the short term, and without quality drafting, wouldn't help the team over the long term. He's not even a valuable trading chip.

Nothing that has happened to the Kings, lets just say from the day DL got the job to today to keep it simple, has one reason for why it happened the way it happened. It's not difficult to argue that they had to sign Doughty, but that they also should've traded Doughty. Of course you give Quick a 10 year contract to lower the cap hit early on, it's only logical. If you give a goalie a 10 year contract to lower the cap hit though, good luck trading him 6 years into the deal when the team isn't competing and he's in his mid 30's. Those are both correct stances to take.

Kopitar is a model citizen, a tremendous two way player, widely admired around the nhl and world as a hockey ambassador. If he's not a good mentor, no one is.

I'm not talking about him picking up Vilardi on his shoulders and carrying him into the net scoring 90 points a year, I'm talking about a guy who has the patience and attention to detail to show these kids what it means to be a pro and how hard it is to redevelop that winning pedigree.

Doughty I'm less sold on in that regard because he's kind of a petulant bitch but I'm bullish on Kopitar, I can't think of a forward in the NHL I'd rather have kids strictly learn from.

It's just like Blake. While people might get what he did in 00-01 from a personal self-interest POV in the game of capitalism, he went against the Kings logo. That hurts us. We're all part of a quasi-collective. Yet, ask his peers, ask the young guys that were on the team back in 2006 to 2008 in his 2nd go around when we were all done with him, and everybody probably respects him.

Kopitar is likely everything every young player on this team wants to be. We don't like when he takes the winter months off, and question his actual leadership abilities, but as an example of what an NHL player could strive to be, he's as good as anyone outside of the elite of the elite. He doesn't have that extra something, that extra gear, like Crosby, Ovechkin, or McDavid, where they're just simply that much better than their competition, and you can feel it just by watching them, but that's life. Everyone can't be the best. If you can't have those guys, then Kopitar is fine. And they rewarded him for helping win the Cups, and that's that.

 

[regulate]