GDT: 2019-20 GM#56 LA Kings vs New Jersey Devils @4:00pm 2/8/20

[KingsFan7824]

He's been a mess for almost two full seasons now, but people just refuse to acknowledge just how bad it's gotten, the homers will sarcastically say "ZOMG he Sux because he doesn't get points!" but his entire game has fallen off significantly, it's alot like Peyton Manning towards the end though, people are going to see the name and overlook the problem.

Hypothetical for ya since I respect your opinion as much as anyone, if the entire NHL redrafted where does Doughty go as far as d-man? My guess it's waaaaaay lower than some here would like to admit, and boy is that a big issue for a guy who is under contract at $11m for the next 7 seasons after this one, until he is 37 years old.

If there is a compliance buyout or two after the next CBA, do they buy him out?

We’ll see. I still think they’d rather can the coach again than to trade Doughty or Kopitar etc.

If players tune him out months after he has the job, then I would keep him just to spite them. Can't keep firing coaches. If the guy they won with wasn't the right guy, then nobody ever will be. I'd rather see them forced into early retirement because the franchise refuses to let another coach be undermined by the talent, then see the coach be fired. I'd rather see a rift develop between the franchise and those players, one that keeps them from having their numbers retired for the next 4 decades, then see the coach be fired.

If, if, if, if they are in fact tuning him out, and it's not just complacency, and that it's a bad team and all that, then I would just let the players know nothing is going to happen. We will not trade you, we will not buy you out, we will not fire the coach. You are more than welcome to not show up, we can suspend you, we can get out from under your contract in some way, but we will not you dictate what the franchise does anymore. We will rip down the Cup banners if you stay, and delete your name from the history of the franchise, but the coach goes nowhere.

If, big if, if they've tuned him out, then I just can't do it anymore. I think they're just a bad team and everyone has fully accepted that reality, but if guys making this much money to play a game can't listen to their coach again, then I'm done until they're all gone.

 

[Herby]

Let me chime in here. Drafting Doughty #2 overall was fine. Signing him to an 8-year, $88M deal was not fine. The Kings knew what they had in this guy. He is passionate and emotional on the ice, and I think he cares. His work ethic in the off season, which is where games are won by players around 30 years old and over, sucks.

You might be right, I hate to be an ass, but look at his family.

I absolutely think Doughty has taken a step back, but I also don't think he would be THIS bad on a contender. He's going through the motions, and that's real bad considering he's a vet and how much he makes

This could be true too, and I have said as much before, it's a tough spot to be on a team this bad for guys like Doughty and Kopitar.

But I also don't believe Doughty is an elite defenseman anymore, I know it's tough for people to fathom but we saw a guy who went from making the Canadian Olympic team to being an AHL'er in a few years, it's certainly possible Doughty has gone from an elite Top 5 d-man to a fringe #1 or #2 d-man.

If there is a compliance buyout or two after the next CBA, do they buy him out?

If he's a #2 or even a #3 d-man? No I don't believe so, it's not ideal but it could be worse.

He would have to fall off to a Richards like level.

They still absolutely 100% should have traded him when they had a chance, and a 26-27 year old Doughty would have brought a big return. Even if he were still playing at an elite level his age doesn't really mesh with the stage the Kings are rebuilding.

 

[Bandit]

There’s nobody in the right frame of mind who would consider Doughty as a top 10 player in his position over the past two seasons, that’s for certain. Him and Subban have dropped off as upper echelon dmen, and Doughty only seems to play with emotion when Matthew Tkachuk is his opponent.

I really do think these past couple of seasons have discouraged a bunch of players from working harder. They just want to play and make money for as long as their bodies can hold up at this point. These are the supposed “leaders” on the LA Kings.

This is also the important difference between 8 & 68 imo. Karlsson’s body has failed him while Drew’s problem is between the ears. Put him on a contender and I’m sure we’d see a different level from 8. That’s shitty for sure, but probably true.

 

[deaderhead28]

Now its Doughty lol.Folks maybe it's the team.The drama lives on.Next were going to see trade Doughty threads on the main board.

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

He doesn't need to be give 100% if we're just going to miss the playoffs anyway. Most of the vets are shells of who they used to be. Carter doesn't score, TT can't score. Kopi passes more than any center I've ever seen, DB doesn't hit anymore. I can't expect DD to play top minutes when these other guys won't play top minutes in the other end to keep the game competitive. This team can't score. So what's the point of giving 100% and leaving it all out there when the rest of the team won't keep offensive numbers up to stay competitive or can't because of the system.

Yes, he's not playing to potential but who is on this team right now?

And I love that Kovy is tearing it up right now. It points to the fact that this team sucks and needs an overhaul. Kovy was not the problem.

 

[KINGS17]

Now its Doughty lol.Folks maybe it's the team.The drama lives on.Next were going to see trade Doughty threads on the main board.

Doughty and Kopitar are supposed to be the leaders of this team. Doughty's game has dropped off dramatically in the last couple of seasons. If the team sucks, Doughty is one of the main reasons it sucks.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Doughty and Kopitar are supposed to be the leaders of this team. Doughty's game has dropped off dramatically in the last couple of seasons. If the team sucks, Doughty is one of the main reasons it sucks.

This. We haven’t seen much leadership exhibited by the current core. They’re content with their past accomplishments and their contracts. Why kill yourself over a bottom of the barrel team? Hence why a new breed of players needs to come in and take charge of this team before they get tainted by the laissez-faire attitude of this team.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I feel about all the vets but Kopitar the same way I felt about the Roenick Kings.

Just f***ing burn it all and start over if that's going to be the case.

 

[tomd]

The players haven't tuned out the coach...they've tuned out management (Blake and Luc). Management has basically told them that this is an open-ended rebuild with no timetable to be competitive again. The players know they'll never play an important game as an LA King for the remainder of their careers here. As such, the players have been relieved of all accountability for their performance. Their money is guaranteed and they hold all the cards when it comes to being dealt. The players also know that management has no intention of trying to improve the team in the next 2-3 seasons at least. Banking on draft picks does nothing to help the current locked up core. They could care less since these draft picks are years away from playing at the NHL level.

This is as bad a situation as I've seen an NHL team in for quite some time and it will be interesting to see when AEG says "enough". The best thing management could do right now is to tell the players and the fans that they fully expect to be a playoff team in 21-22 and will make whatever moves are necessary to ensure that goal. There needs to be goals and accountability in this organization again. Right now there are zero of each and it shows. 2nd and 3rd round draft picks may excite a few fans on a website but they do nothing for the ownership, fans, and sponsors who are shelling out ridiculous money for the current (and future) product on the ice.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

This is also the important difference between 8 & 68 imo. Karlsson’s body has failed him while Drew’s problem is between the ears. Put him on a contender and I’m sure we’d see a different level from 8. That’s ****ty for sure, but probably true.

I’d be interested in seeing some of these guys at the World Championship, just to see if they look and play any different than they do now (or the past two seasons).

 

[Peter James Bond II]

You must be able to have all 4 lines be NHL players...and the Kings have the 2 worst NHL forwards and put one on line 3 and 1 on line 4. This puts TREMENDOUS strain on the other 4 of the bottom 6. It's like the other 2 on lines 3 and 4 had better be Filip freaking Forsberg's (or better, that could overcome abysmal linemates)) and be able to make up for Wagner and Lewis...it's just not possible Lewis is absolutely useless now and about 50% of what he was, which amounts to nothing now. Wagner may as well not even use a hockey stick, as he has no hands, no skills and there are certainly more over 100 better players outside the NHL that could replace him. 3 goals on 103 shots now...you could wear a blindfold and shoot 103 times and 3 will go in. It's not just his shot, he's terrible at everything, Trade (will be no takers) for Lewis or Wagner, so waive them. I feel the post coming "Are you serious? The Kings have BIGGER problems than Wagner and Lewis. A: YES. they do. But 2 players out of your bottom 6 are the worst in the NHL and should be replaced. By who? Anyone. Jad...Grundstrom. Move Pro back in the top 6. Moore is better than Lewis and Wagner...just pickup someone in a deal..or sign a college free agent.

 

[deaderhead28]

Doughty and Kopitar are supposed to be the leaders of this team. Doughty's game has dropped off dramatically in the last couple of seasons. If the team sucks, Doughty is one of the main reasons it sucks.

I disagree,if the team sucks it affects the play of Doughty and Kopitar.The team sucks in general.

 

[deaderhead28]

The players haven't tuned out the coach...they've tuned out management (Blake and Luc). Management has basically told them that this is an open-ended rebuild with no timetable to be competitive again. The players know they'll never play an important game as an LA King for the remainder of their careers here. As such, the players have been relieved of all accountability for their performance. Their money is guaranteed and they hold all the cards when it comes to being dealt. The players also know that management has no intention of trying to improve the team in the next 2-3 seasons at least. Banking on draft picks does nothing to help the current locked up core. They could care less since these draft picks are years away from playing at the NHL level.

This is as bad a situation as I've seen an NHL team in for quite some time and it will be interesting to see when AEG says "enough". The best thing management could do right now is to tell the players and the fans that they fully expect to be a playoff team in 21-22 and will make whatever moves are necessary to ensure that goal. There needs to be goals and accountability in this organization again. Right now there are zero of each and it shows. 2nd and 3rd round draft picks may excite a few fans on a website but they do nothing for the ownership, fans, and sponsors who are shelling out ridiculous money for the current (and future) product on the ice.

Again why not troll your Ducks thread and let us Kings fans argue among ourselves in peace.Why not practice being a mind reader and therapist on your teams page.Ducks are in a similar situation and I am sure you've a answer to fix their woes.

 

[tomd]

Again why not troll your Ducks thread and let us Kings fans argue among ourselves in peace.Ducks are in a similar situation and I am sure you've a answer to fix their woes.

And yet you found nothing to disagree with in my post...just assumed that I'm a Ducks fan and not a hockey fan. For the record, however, the Ducks are in much better shape contract wise than the Kings are. They are not similar situations at all other than their records. I find the Kings situation fascinating and almost unparalleled in the NHL. Feel free to put me on "ignore" if you'd rather not talk honestly about the team.

 

[Ghetty Green]

Since the first 10 game Brown has been completely invisible

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

And yet you found nothing to disagree with in my post...just assumed that I'm a Ducks fan and not a hockey fan. For the record, however, the Ducks are in much better shape contract wise than the Kings are. They are not similar situations at all other than their records. I find the Kings situation fascinating and almost unparalleled in the NHL. Feel free to put me on "ignore" if you'd rather not talk honestly about the team.

There are plenty of things wrong with the Kings; contracts are not one of them. "unparalleled" is a laugher.

However if you are here to lecture about how much better the Ducks are then yes it's going to be seen as trolling and dealt with appropriately.

 

[tomd]

There are plenty of things wrong with the Kings; contracts are not one of them. "unparalleled" is a laugher.

However if you are here to lecture about how much better the Ducks are then yes it's going to be seen as trolling and dealt with appropriately.

Except that I didn't once mention the Ducks or any other team in my original post. The trolling is being done by those (including yourself) responding to my posts.

The premise in my original post was simple...management needs to set goals and accountability for the team. If you disagree with that premise, I'm happy to discuss.

 

[KINGS17]

I think San Jose is in just as bad of shape as the Kings are when it comes to the contracts of older players. You just can't do this crap with every good player on your team that is getting his third contract. You have to establish some type of policy as an organization and stick with it. I wouldn't recommend giving more than four years to any player getting his third contract. I know people will say, "Well if the Kings won't do it, another team will." Fine, let another team do it.

How is it working out for the Kings? They have very limited roster flexibility due to the long-term contracts, especially the ones with NMC's or NTC's.

 

[KINGS17]

I disagree,if the team sucks it affects the play of Doughty and Kopitar.The team sucks in general.

Yes, the team sucks in general. Has Doughty elevated the play of his defensive partner this season, or has he just gotten distracted and lazy?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think San Jose is in just as bad of shape as the Kings are when it comes to the contracts of older players. You just can't do this crap with every good player on your team that is getting his third contract. You have to establish some type of policy as an organization and stick with it. I wouldn't recommend giving more than four years to any player getting his third contract. I know people will say, "Well if the Kings won't do it, another team will." Fine, let another team do it.

How is it working out for the Kings? They have very limited roster flexibility due to the long-term contracts, especially the ones with NMC's or NTC's.

How do they have limited roster flexibility? The only people with significant term are Doughty and Kopitar. The 'problems' I'm sure people are referencing are Brown, Carter, Quick, who will be up soon or could be traded with retention, but who needs that? We have more space than damn near anyone and will have a harder time reaching the floor than the ceiling in a year or two.

I get we're mad at the Kings right now, and this year sucks hard. But to pretend they're in some terrible spot with contracts and roster flexibility--especially beyond this year--is just a farce.

Are we going back to the idea of playing nothing but 20 year olds and Kopitar and Doughty?

Look around the league. Like you said, SJ is in an awful spot AND they don't have their 1st round pick this year! TO is in cap and contract hell and haven't even won a round and are in danger of missing the playoffs altogether. Calgary is in a blacker black hole than us right now. The Buffalo Sabres and Arizona Coyotes have literally 0 cap space and are only behnd TO. Canucks, too. THERE is a bunch of rebuilding teams that are out of flexibility before even really paying their guys, never mind putting finishing touches on the rebuild, and we're over here worried about our contracts?

If there's anything this organization has right now, it's space and roster flexibility. The problem is no one to put there yet!

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Except that I didn't once mention the Ducks or any other team in my original post. The trolling is being done by those (including yourself) responding to my posts.

The premise in my original post was simple...management needs to set goals and accountability for the team. If you disagree with that premise, I'm happy to discuss.

I think most people will agree with you on the lack of vision.

Where people disagree with you is your overexaggerated/hyperbolic bs about never seeing anything this bad in the NHL, because it's a pattern with you all over the board.

But if you're willing to discuss with an actual open mind, that would be great. I love it when you're on that level with everyone.

 

[KINGS17]

How do they have limited roster flexibility? The only people with significant term are Doughty and Kopitar. The 'problems' I'm sure people are referencing are Brown, Carter, Quick, who will be up soon or could be traded with retention, but who needs that? We have more space than damn near anyone and will have a harder time reaching the floor than the ceiling in a year or two.

I get we're mad at the Kings right now, and this year sucks hard. But to pretend they're in some terrible spot with contracts and roster flexibility--especially beyond this year--is just a farce.

Are we going back to the idea of playing nothing but 20 year olds and Kopitar and Doughty?

Look around the league. Like you said, SJ is in an awful spot AND they don't have their 1st round pick this year! TO is in cap and contract hell and haven't even won a round and are in danger of missing the playoffs altogether. Calgary is in a blacker black hole than us right now. The Buffalo Sabres and Arizona Coyotes have literally 0 cap space and are only behnd TO. Canucks, too. THERE is a bunch of rebuilding teams that are out of flexibility before even really paying their guys, never mind putting finishing touches on the rebuild, and we're over here worried about our contracts?

If there's anything this organization has right now, it's space and roster flexibility. The problem is no one to put there yet!

You are talking about beyond this year, but the lack of roster flexibility has been a problem for at least three seasons.

Why does it have to be a choice between playing 20-year olds and Kopitar and Doughty, or what they are doing now? The bottom line is the Kings should have moved on from both of these guys, because by the time the rebuild is complete it is likely neither of these two will be putting the Kings over the top.

 

[damacles1156]

He was also the one who couldn’t draft a 1st line forward or top 4 d-man at any point in his final 9 years years on the job. Let him go somewhere like Buffalo where those things are in place like they were for him here and let him finish the job by trading for the right veterans. The Kings are rebuilding and need someone who has a clue how to draft, hopefully that’s Blake but who knows, the right move should have been going outside the organization.

Blake is still using the same scouts and development staff as Lombardi had. Futa has largely be in charge of drafting since 2010.

 

[Steve Zissou]

< Insert image of Dustin Brown’s face on a milk carton with the text in bold: MISSING >

 

[damacles1156]

Brown looks like he is ready to retire, at this point what does Brown have left to prove?