Prospect Info: 2019 #11 - Victor Soderstrom, D

[The Feckless Puck]

Strome and Domi are gone.

We have Victor Soderstrom, from all reports a stellar defensive prospect, in our pipeline and possibly playing for us this year. If not, he'll likely go back to Brynas to develop.

Are we back on topic now?

 

[azcanuck]

Has there ever been a 3 OA in NHL history where that player was traded who has played less than 50 games for the said team? How can anyone evaluate a player who has played less than 50 games, getting 12 minutes a game?

probably has. Many teams have made brutal decisions.
Lets not kid anyone the coyotes have handled younger players brutally. We've lost too many young stars with little in return. Domi is already a budding star. Strome will continue his upward trajectory. Perlini is still a wildcard.
Arrogance is not a great quality in my opinion. If Chyka had this kid third overall that would be nuts. IF it is the case he better be a star real quickly.

 

[rt]

It is the case. He had him third.

 

[Jakey53]

probably has. Many teams have made brutal decisions.
Lets not kid anyone the coyotes have handled younger players brutally. We've lost too many young stars with little in return. Domi is already a budding star. Strome will continue his upward trajectory. Perlini is still a wildcard.
Arrogance is not a great quality in my opinion. If Chyka had this kid third overall that would be nuts. IF it is the case he better be a star real quickly.

Find one. I couldn't. The draft is a crap shoot. I thought we had drafted pretty well the last three years, but I looked back and in 2016 is the only year that gave us two NHL players. Mind you, we did trade a couple players. I guess Chayka wanted more and that is why he revamped the scouting dept.

 

[TheLegend]

It is the case. He had him third.

I don’t know was third.


And Who was on first, What was second.

 

[hbk]

Strome can fit the up tempo in Chicago but can't do it here? They never gave Strome a chance, or should I say RT never gave him a chance, or maybe he doesn't have the knowledge how to utilize such player. How do you evaluate a player after 48 games? I believe Strome is the first 3OA pick to be traded having played less than 50 games for the team that drafted him. First one in NHL history, or at least the last twenty years. Speaking of system, Strome and Domi did just fine to end the year two years ago. You have to give these kids a chance and blaming it on "the system" is hog wash.

I agree he never got a chance. I also think if I have a handle on his preferred style of play after having watched him in the OHL and AHL then I suspect everyone else has a book on him as well.

 

[Jakey53]

I don’t know was third.


And Who was on first, What was second.

What's on third, Who's on second. That was great comedy in the good ole days.

 

[Jakey53]

I agree he never got a chance. I also think if I have a handle on his preferred style of play after having watched him in the OHL and AHL then I suspect everyone else has a book on him as well.

Maybe RT should have read that book. He was too busy dishing out minutes to his "sticky" players. Three of those players are no longer here.

 

[TheLegend]

Craig Morgan with a background feature on Soderstrom (The Athletic paywall)

Victor Söderström’s career defined by precocious play

 

[rt]

Craig Morgan with a background feature on Soderstrom (The Athletic paywall)

Victor Söderström’s career defined by precocious play

Possibly the best article I’ve ever read from Craig. Very well researched with compelling insight from multiple parties. Could not have been easy to do, but damn did I learn a lot. A fluff piece but a really good one.

Favorite part:
“A lot of games, there wasn’t a lot of offensive plays for me as a D,” Victor said.

Brynäs finished second-to-last in the SHL in goals last season with 116 in 52 games. Brynäs’ top line of Nicklas Danielsson, Joel Kellman and New Jersey Devils’ 2017 second-round pick Jesper Boqvist amassed 44 goals and 99 points, but the next closest forward on the roster, Ludvig Nilsson, had just 17 points.

Because Söderström played on the second defensive pair, he was rarely matched with Brynäs’ top line.

“I know a lot of people are reading things, or looking at stats, or maybe watching some clips, but they are not privy to the information we are and our thing is to evaluate what translates,” Coyotes director of scouting Lindsay Hofford said.

“If he plays (in Brynäs) next year, they’ll encourage him to be more offensive but the offensive skills are there. I just don’t think the opportunity was there and I don’t think he really pushed it because they didn’t want him to. It was probably a smart thing at his age.”

Pretty much eases my most significant concerns about this player.

 

[azcanuck]

It is the case. He had him third.

What do you think of having this kid ranked third overall on his board?

 

[rt]

What do you think of having this kid ranked third overall on his board?

It feels like bias. I think falls in love and love is blind.

I think there are some very specific qualities that Chayka values very highly. Much more highly than his peers. I think when prospects that are also already highly rated by the consensus (10th-15th) and they display high ability in those very particular Chayka criterium, then they end up in his top 5 as he becomes “obsessed” with them (his word) and commits to “not leaving without” them (his words).

Further, I think he’s hand-picked his staff and surrounded himself with people who either value those traits equally or almost as highly, and/or are willing to allow him his eccentricities and don’t argue.

Now, with all of that said, it’s possible he’s just plain correct. It could easily be that certain something he sees in 18 year olds that other don’t see is why Patrice Bergeron, Ryan O’Reilly and Duncan Keith were 2nd round picks instead of top five picks. Maybe Chayka can identify that quality. Maybe that’s his secret sauce (intended Wendy’s pun). Perhaps he’d have drafted those players top ten and the hockey world would have screamed and hollered and called him an idiot.

We have to wait to find out.

 

[azcanuck]

It feels like bias. I think falls in love and love is blind.

I think there are some very specific qualities that Chayka values very highly. Much more highly than his peers. I think when prospects that are also already highly rated by the consensus (10th-15th) and they display high ability in those very particular Chayka criterium, then they end up in his top 5 as he becomes “obsessed” with them (his word) and commits to “not leaving without” them (his words).

Further, I think he’s hand-picked his staff and surrounded himself with people who either value those traits equally or almost as highly, and/or are willing to allow him his eccentricities and don’t argue.

Now, with all of that said, it’s possible he’s just plain correct. It could easily be that certain something he sees in 18 year olds that other don’t see is why Patrice Bergeron, Ryan O’Reilly and Duncan Keith were 2nd round picks instead of top five picks. Maybe Chayka can identify that quality. Maybe that’s his secret sauce (intended Wendy’s pun). Perhaps he’d have drafted those players top ten and the hockey world would have screamed and hollered and called him an idiot.

We have to wait to find out.

overconfident millennial or genius boy. We'll find out.

 

[rt]

overconfident millennial or genius boy. We'll find out.

Reality is usually more boring than that. Maybe one of Hayton or Soderberg is fantastic and the other is really underwhelming. Maybe both Keller and Chychrun kind of tread water as pretty good for their draft positions but never really take a huge step. What do you call that kind of success rate? Passable probably. Above average really. Nothing to jump up and down about. Good enough.

 

[azcanuck]

Reality is usually more boring than that. Maybe one of Hayton or Soderberg is fantastic and the other is really underwhelming. Maybe both Keller and Chychrun kind of tread water as pretty good for their draft positions but never really take a huge step. What do you call that kind of success rate? Passable probably. Above average really. Nothing to jump up and down about. Good enough.

It's one thing for your first round picks to make it but what about picks in other rounds. You need some second/third/fourth rounders to make it and maybe even be stars. I dont know anyone in the pipeline here that fits that equation.
It's more of a sign of a good GM/scouting dept. for that to happen.
And I think Keller and Chychrun were excellent selections. Right now only Joseph seems to be a bust first round pick.

 

[rt]

I think it’s crazy to call PO a bust. He’s skinny and needs time. Apart from that, I think he’s as good a project today as he was two years ago.

 

[azcanuck]

I think it’s crazy to call PO a bust. He’s skinny and needs time. Apart from that, I think he’s as good a project today as he was two years ago.

He's going to make the NHL in the mold of a 5/6 if he sticks. That equates to more of a 3rd/4th round pick.

 

[rt]

He's going to make the NHL in the mold of a 5/6 if he sticks. That equates to more of a 3rd/4th round pick.

I'm not sure when this narrative turned, but it feels suspiciously near when we traded him.

I feel like everyone was still pretty high on him before the trade to Drummondville. I didn't see any dashed hopes until at least the rookie camp. But really it wasn't until the Kessel trade that I began to see such harsh criticism.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

I still think POJ will be a #3/4 Dman...he just needs to add weight. It is inevitable, at some point, puberty will kick in and he'll begin gaining weight. He will also get man strength at the same time, just look at his brother who is a beast now. It will happen.

 

[rt]

I still think POJ will be a #3/4 Dman...he just needs to add weight. It is inevitable, at some point, puberty will kick in and he'll begin gaining weight. He will also get man strength at the same time, just look at his brother who is a beast now. It will happen.

Yep. It took Mathieu 3-4 years to bulk up and be able to play his style in the NHL. He's still working on it. But he was great as a bottom six guy this year. I think getting cut from Team Canada at the World Juniors maybe soured some people. But D is a finite position. You only carry half as many as forwards.

 

[azcanuck]

Trading a second round pick to move up to draft this kid doesnt seem to bother too many people. "trust John{ seems to be the answer.
Montreal drafted a kid Jayden Struble in the second round who is a an exciting prospect with boom/bust written all over him. But I love it. Big strong kid who can skate. Strongest kid in the combine. Still need D like this in the league.(see Boston and St. louis).
Getting to know 46th overall pick Jayden Struble
The year before Montreal took a Russian kid named Romanov in the second round. He has since zoomed up the charts and looks like a first pair D . He dominated jr. tournaments and plays with men in Russia. Super excited about him.
These are the type of guys Chyka misses out in going crazy for this swedish D nobody else was that high on.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I think controlled entries are also important to Chayka/Tocchet. Which made Schmaltz attractive. Same for Kessel. I think controlled exits are something that are current group of D are pretty good at. It would be nice to keep the puck. Schmaltz and Kessel should help.

ABSOLUTELY.

 

[rt]

Trading a second round pick to move up to draft this kid doesnt seem to bother too many people. "trust John{ seems to be the answer.
Montreal drafted a kid Jayden Struble in the second round who is a an exciting prospect with boom/bust written all over him. But I love it. Big strong kid who can skate. Strongest kid in the combine. Still need D like this in the league.(see Boston and St. louis).
Getting to know 46th overall pick Jayden Struble
The year before Montreal took a Russian kid named Romanov in the second round. He has since zoomed up the charts and looks like a first pair D . He dominated jr. tournaments and plays with men in Russia. Super excited about him.
These are the type of guys Chyka misses out in going crazy for this swedish D nobody else was that high on.

Oh boy.

1. No one is saying we should trust John. Just that we don't have a choice until we have some conclusive information with which to judge his decisions. It's too early to call for his head based on draft picks he made less than four weeks ago.

2. Do you know what the success rate is on mid-2nd round picks? Cherry picking two names, literally neither of whom are in the NHL, does not make your case. Most 2nd round picks are never worth a 2nd round pick again. Usually, the moment a team elects to burn a second on them, that represents the peak value they'll ever have as an asset. That's the most common outcome.

3. Nobody else was that high on Soderstrom? What are you basing this on? I say Philly would have picked him if not for the 2nd rounder we offered. Or perhaps Minnesota. Or Florida. Maybe another team was trying to trade up. He was absolutely NOT a reach at 11th overall, nobody in the hockey community has ever said so, and I don't believe you have a shred of evidence to support your claim.

 

[azcanuck]

Oh boy.

1. No one is saying we should trust John. Just that we don't have a choice until we have some conclusive information with which to judge his decisions. It's too early to call for his head based on draft picks he made less than four weeks ago.

2. Do you know what the success rate is on mid-2nd round picks? Cherry picking two names, literally neither of whom are in the NHL, does not make your case. Most 2nd round picks are never worth a 2nd round pick again. Usually, the moment a team elects to burn a second on them, that represents the peak value they'll ever have as an asset. That's the most common outcome.

3. Nobody else was that high on Soderstrom? What are you basing this on? I say Philly would have picked him if not for the 2nd rounder we offered. Or perhaps Minnesota. Or Florida. Maybe another team was trying to trade up. He was absolutely NOT a reach at 11th overall, nobody in the hockey community has ever said so, and I don't believe you have a shred of evidence to support your claim.

This from the TSN in canada:
Canada's The Sports Network (TSN) did a similar analysis with similar results, looking at draft picks from 2000 to 2009. Based on that analysis, TSN concluded that 80 percent of first-round picks become at least low-level NHL players, while 44 percent of those players selected in the second round make the NHL a career. Just 30 percent of third-round picks become NHL players, and the percentages continue to drop in the later rounds.
I gave you two recent examples of what types of prospects COULD be coming up for the Yotes and statistically there's a decent chance of getting a good player.

Speaking of "not a shred of evidence" go ahead and show me some real evidence that any team considered drafting this kid ahead of the Yotes. Your doing much more speculating then I am. You're not schizophrenic are you?
There was not much movement at the time simply because there was so many good prospects still on the board around the same level. Nobody was reaching or moving up to grab perhaps the only good player left. It could be argued Caufield or Krebs could have been worth moving up for.

 

[rt]

Buddy. Look at the McKenzie poll. Do you think he was rated in the top fifteen because every team had him 12-18? As we’ve seen, there’s more variance than that and it only takes one.

Krebs and Caufield? You are aware that they went after, correct? How does it make any sense to you to bring them up?

As far as I can tell, you’re the only person on earth who’s talking about Soderstrom being a reach at 11th.