2018 Olympic Qualification Groups

[slovakiasnextone]

I really hate the fact that there's only 3 games in the final qualifying stage. I would've liked to see a home and home against every team in the group or only once against everyone and then 2 best teams would play a best-of-three series... It would've been much more fair system but I'm not sure if there was enough time and will to do it? It would've been a week long qualifying.

A lot of players from Euro leagues like KHL, SHL, FEL etc. will be playing in the final qualification tournaments, the leagues in Europe usually start in early to mid September, so there's no time to squeeze in a longer tournament of they want to allow the teams to ice the best they can offer. It was probably already hard already to find a time frame, which would technically allow the NHLers to suit up as well. Let's see what the NHL and their farce Team Europe have to say about it in case the qualification collides with the World Cup. Of course, technically they could just have the Swiss and Slovak players suit up for that team, but they couldn't really scrape enough NHL forwards together...

And don't forget other talents, like 19-year old defenseman Mattias Nørstebø. So a group of talented young guys in their early-mid 20s (Nørstebø, Martinsen, Ken André Olimb, Trettenes, Volden, Søberg)guys in their late 20s-early 30s (Holøs, Haugen, Zuccarello, Tollefsen, Thoresen, Mathis Olimb) would probably (and hopefully) win that group. But they have to play disciplined and not underestimate neither France nor Kazakhstan.

The Norwegians are the favourites, but anything can happen in such a short tournament.

 

[Apari]

A lot of players from Euro leagues like KHL, SHL, FEL etc. will be playing in the final qualification tournaments, the leagues in Europe usually start in early to mid September, so there's no time to squeeze in a longer tournament of they want to allow the teams to ice the best they can offer. It was probably already hard already to find a time frame, which would technically allow the NHLers to suit up as well. Let's see what the NHL and their farce Team Europe have to say about it in case the qualification collides with the World Cup. Of course, technically they could just have the Swiss and Slovak players suit up for that team, but they couldn't really scrape enough NHL forwards together...

Adding 4-5 days before the current schedule shouldn't have been that difficult. I understand it's something the European league teams don't want but the qualifying stage would have been more fair with the systems I suggested. But it is what it is...

 

[kulenova seka]

Mark Flood (if stays in Medvescak), Pascal Pelletier, James Wright will get croatian passports which will make them eligible to play in the first qualification round in February 2016. when Croatia will play in Japan against hosts, Ukraine and Romania.

 

[ellja3]

Which pre-qualification group winner goes into Group E? Did not manage to find this info.

With regards to Latvia vs South Korea debate. So, we are talking about Korean team that lost to Great Britain, the same GB the Latvians beat 6:2 on one skate in Sochi qualification, outshooting them 39 to 15? Ok.

 

[kabidjan18]

Which pre-qualification group winner goes into Group E? Did not manage to find this info.

With regards to Latvia vs South Korea debate. So, we are talking about Korean team that lost to Great Britain, the same GB the Latvians beat 6:2 on one skate in Sochi qualification, outshooting them 39 to 15? Ok.

Lol, here comes Namejs.

There's a reason mutual matches aren't often used to judge skill. Austria and Canada both beat Norway in the Olympics 3-1. Furthermore, Austria outscored Canada against Finland with 4 goals in regulation to 2 in overtime. So Austria is equal to Canada? Nah, 6-0.

 

[airbus1094]

Lol, here comes Namejs.

There's a reason mural matches aren't often used to judge skill. Austria and Canada both beat Norway in the Olympics 3-1. Furthermore, Austria outscored Canada against Finland with 4 goals in regulation to 2 in overtime. So Austria is equal to Canada? Nah, 6-0.

Regardless, the point still remains that Latvia is miles ahead of Korea. From a purely competitive perspective, I would much rather see Latvia play then Korea. That being said, this can be a chance to boost hockey popularity in Korea and help them make the jump to being a better team.

 

[ozo]

That being said, this can be a chance to boost hockey popularity in Korea and help them make the jump to being a better team.

It didn't help Japan and Italy at all. I see no reason why it will be different with Korea.

 

[slovakiasnextone]

It didn't help Japan and Italy at all. I see no reason why it will be different with Korea.

I'd say that one difference might be that the Korean hockey programme was already on the rise before hey got the automatic OG spot. I might be wrong, but I don't think either Italy or Japan were investing into their hockey programme at the time they were awarded the winter Olympics.

Of course, whether getting slaughtered by the top teams in the world (and that's a given regardless of whether NHLers play there) is the way to gain popularity for the sport is rather questionable...

 

[ellja3]

Lol, here comes Namejs.

There's a reason mutual matches aren't often used to judge skill. Austria and Canada both beat Norway in the Olympics 3-1. Furthermore, Austria outscored Canada against Finland with 4 goals in regulation to 2 in overtime. So Austria is equal to Canada? Nah, 6-0.

Absolutely agree, but last LV-KOR head-to-head was March 18, 1993.

27:0 btw

 

[ozo]

I'd say that one difference might be that the Korean hockey programme was already on the rise before hey got the automatic OG spot. I might be wrong, but I don't think either Italy or Japan were investing into their hockey programme at the time they were awarded the winter Olympics.

Of course, whether getting slaughtered by the top teams in the world (and that's a given regardless of whether NHLers play there) is the way to gain popularity for the sport is rather questionable...

Would love to read about Korean progress outside the success in handing out passports to N-americans. I am too young to remember, but I feel that Japan's hockey at the time was way better than Korean is right now even with the rise up the chain on the back of Radunske and Testwuide.

 

[slovakiasnextone]

Would love to read about Korean progress outside the success in handing out passports to N-americans. I am too young to remember, but I feel that Japan's hockey at the time was way better than Korean is right now even with the rise up the chain on the back of Radunske and Testwuide.

I'm not sure whether you just don't know or whether you are being purposefully unfair against Korea (in which case I can understand your frustration considering the influence the Korea decision had on Latvia).

I don't like the nationalising NA players thing by Koreans either, but that didn't come until they got the automatic Olympic birth. Their programme was however already on the rise prior to them nationalising NA players. Of course they were nowhere near the top teams, but they had made great progress compared to their own past.

The first time they made it to Division IA beating out Poland in the Disivion IB final, it was a purely Korean roster that made it:

http://www.eliteprospects.com/team.php?team=4466&year0=2012

A Korean team playing in the Asia league played a big part in their development.

You can read more information here:

http://www.internationalhockey.net/...th-Korea-s-rise-in-hockey&p=272651#post272651

They moved up around 10 spots in the world rankings since the early 2000s.

Currently the gap between them and Japan isn't all that huge.

I don't remember Japan back in 1998 either, but I think that if there's a feeling that they were better than Korea today is because at that time Japasn was given an opportunity to play at the elite Worlds through the Asian qualification where they had no concurence as Korea lagged behind them severly at that time.

 

[ozo]

I'm not sure whether you just don't know or whether you are being purposefully unfair against Korea (in which case I can understand your frustration considering the influence the Korea decision had on Latvia).

I don't like the nationalising NA players thing by Koreans either, but that didn't come until they got the automatic Olympic birth. Their programme was however already on the rise prior to them nationalising NA players. Of course they were nowhere near the top teams, but they had made great progress compared to their own past.

The first time they made it to Division IA beating out Poland in the Disivion IB final, it was a purely Korean roster that made it:

http://www.eliteprospects.com/team.php?team=4466&year0=2012

A Korean team playing in the Asia league played a big part in their development.

You can read more information here:

http://www.internationalhockey.net/...th-Korea-s-rise-in-hockey&p=272651#post272651

They moved up around 10 spots in the world rankings since the early 2000s.

Currently the gap between them and Japan isn't all that huge.

I don't remember Japan back in 1998 either, but I think that if there's a feeling that they were better than Korea today is because at that time Japasn was given an opportunity to play at the elite Worlds through the Asian qualification where they had no concurence as Korea lagged behind them severly at that time.

I have no clue what influence Korea has had on my team, so it isn't about that I simply hate mercenaries playing for NT's. And all I was trying to say is that Korea really came from nowhere (yes, they deserve some respect for that, I agree), but this in reality is the easy part as hockey is such a minor sport where any coherent attempt at progressing will make you climb the ladders of the ranking quite easily, especially if you start at where Korea was 10 years ago.

 

[slovakiasnextone]

I have no clue what influence Korea has had on my team, so it isn't about that I simply hate mercenaries playing for NT's. And all I was trying to say is that Korea really came from nowhere (yes, they deserve some respect for that, I agree), but this in reality is the easy part as hockey is such a minor sport where any coherent attempt at progressing will make you climb the ladders of the ranking quite easily, especially if you start at where Korea was 10 years ago.

Wouldn't Latvia get the last automatic spot were it not for South Korea?

The bolded part is true, but then again the original point was whether the Korea playing in the Olympics could do something for the popularity of the sport there and I'd say since the coherent attempt at progressing was there even before there is some potential althugh there are historic examples with Italy and Japan showing that it might not be the case.

But it wouldn't be the first time a big international tournament helps the popularity of hockey in a country. Although a very long time ago, back in the times of the first Czechoslovak republic while hockey was already popular in the Czech lands, bandy hockey was more popular in Slovakia and what helped to jump start the growth of ice hockey here was the European championship that was played in the High Tatras back in 1925 AFAIK.

 

[ozo]

Wouldn't Latvia get the last automatic spot were it not for South Korea?

Dunno, but Korea was always getting a spot, so I can't act surprised or, even worse, offended by this.

The bolded part is true, but then again the original point was whether the Korea playing in the Olympics could do something for the popularity of the sport there and I'd say since the coherent attempt at progressing was there even before there is some potential althugh there are historic examples with Italy and Japan showing that it might not be the case.

But it wouldn't be the first time a big international tournament helps the popularity of hockey in a country. Although a very long time ago, back in the times of the first Czechoslovak republic while hockey was already popular in the Czech lands, bandy hockey was more popular in Slovakia and what helped to jump start the growth of ice hockey here was the European championship that was played in the High Tatras back in 1925 AFAIK.

I'm quite sure Japan's hockey minds also were trying to benefit from Nagano games, but the next step - establishing yourself among top 14 hockey nations is the real challenge that supposedly up-and-coming teams need to strive for. I saw majority of IB games this year and I have to conclude that Korea is closer to Estonia than it is to Latvia, Denmark or Norway.

 

[slovakiasnextone]

Dunno, but Korea was always getting a spot, so I can't act surprised or, even worse, offended by this.

I am not sure it was. I think there was some talk that a team needed to be ranked in top 20 of IIHF ranking in order to get the automatic spot.


I'm quite sure Japan's hockey minds also were trying to benefit from Nagano games, but the next step - establishing yourself among top 14 hockey nations is the real challenge that supposedly up-and-coming teams need to strive for. I saw majority of IB games this year and I have to conclude that Korea is closer to Estonia than it is to Latvia, Denmark or Norway.

Establishing yourself as a top 14 nation is a big of a feat for teams like Korea to look at considering that there's where the concurence is probably the biggest in world hockey right now. They should probably give themselves more realistic goals. Hungary might be a good model to look at for them.

Before they want some high goals, it's necessary to build the sport at the grassroot levels and a big tournament certainly could help them do that.

 

[ozo]

I hear you, but I guess I'm too skeptical. Italy and Japan had better foundations and that lead nowhere, and I don't think that Korean progress of late is tangible enough to elevate Korea higher than they are currently.

 

[kabidjan18]

I hear you, but I guess I'm too skeptical. Italy and Japan had better foundations and that lead nowhere, and I don't think that Korean progress of late is tangible enough to elevate Korea higher than they are currently.

I feel the point that's being missed is that Korea is hosting the Winter Olympics, not the Hockey World Cup. Koreans are no doubt excited...to watch figure skating (Sotnikova better not show up btw, the judges will be rigged against her this time). Hosting the Olympics in Norway would be great...for ski jumpers. Simply put, since there are so many other events at the Winter Olympics, there's never any surety that hosting the tournament there will grow the sport there. It may grow the sport elsewhere like say if Slovakia does well then it may grow the sport in Slovakia. But simple having a team in an sport at an event that has many options and a great variety of activites to spectate doesn't make the future of Korean Hockey look brighter than it was before.

 

[ozo]

I feel the point that's being missed is that Korea is hosting the Winter Olympics, not the Hockey World Cup. Koreans are no doubt excited...to watch figure skating (Sotnikova better not show up btw, the judges will be rigged against her this time). Hosting the Olympics in Norway would be great...for ski jumpers. Simply put, since there are so many other events at the Winter Olympics, there's never any surety that hosting the tournament there will grow the sport there. It may grow the sport elsewhere like say if Slovakia does well then it may grow the sport in Slovakia. But simple having a team in an sport at an event that has many options and a great variety of activites to spectate doesn't make the future of Korean Hockey look brighter than it was before.

Exactly. We hockey fans tend to see Olympics as an event for hockey exclusively, which of course is silly. Hockey in Korea probably is as popular as luge or biathlon, and every Korean sports federation will struggle for attention and hockey is the one which is the hardest to popularize for various reasons.

 

[Urbanskog]

Exactly. We hockey fans tend to see Olympics as an event for hockey exclusively, which of course is silly. Hockey in Korea probably is as popular as luge or biathlon, and every Korean sports federation will struggle for attention and hockey is the one which is the hardest to popularize for various reasons.

What are those reasons?

 

[ozo]

What are those reasons?

I'm sure you just act dumb, but ok. The cost of the sport? The amount of medals up for grabs at it? The need for 20+ good players just to not get massacred by sports great teams?

It simply is easier to popularize skiing or speedskating than hockey. As kabidjan18 correctly pointed out, there's too much going at Olympics to focus on one discipline. This isn't soccer World Cup, which Japan hosted in 02' and which really kick started the development of the game in Far East.

 

[kabidjan18]

Opinion Question: When Ralfs Freibergs' suspension is up, is he back on the Latvian team? Will it significantly improve the playing level of the team?

 

[Ub the Bub]

It didn't help Japan and Italy at all. I see no reason why it will be different with Korea.

Korea was a staple in Division II just 6 years ago and then only 4 years later in 2013 they avoided regulation from Division IA. So I think it's safe to say that Korean hockey development is trending sharply upwards already.

 

[BayStreetBully]

I cannot fathom how Latvians can be so arrogant about Korea's inclusion in the Olympics. It is becoming irritating, especially as Latvia is nothing special to begin with. Korea is the host. Hosts SHOULD get automatic qualification, as did Italy and Japan. On top of that, Korean hockey has been improving, and it's a good chance to reward their progress.

I agree with the fellow above. If Latvia is good enough to make 2018, they will. If not, no big loss.

 

[kaiser matias]

Some minor changes to the lower tier qualification tournaments, mainly when and where they are being played:


Changes in Olympic Qualification

Due to a schedule conflict with the Continental Cup, the Qualification Game between the two lowest-seeded teams of the Men’s Olympic Qualification, Bulgaria and Georgia, will be moved. The new proposed date is 10th October.

Serbia withdrew from hosting Group L of the Olympic Preliminary Qualification. The event will now be hosted by the second-seeded country of the group, Spain, in a city to be determined. Other participants of the group include Iceland and China.

The Olympic Preliminary Qualification will take place from 5 to 8 November. The other group will be played in Estonia and also includes Mexico, Israel and the winner of the Bulgaria-Georgia game.

 

[kabidjan18]

I cannot fathom how Latvians can be so arrogant about Korea's inclusion in the Olympics. It is becoming irritating, especially as Latvia is nothing special to begin with. Korea is the host. Hosts SHOULD get automatic qualification, as did Italy and Japan. On top of that, Korean hockey has been improving, and it's a good chance to reward their progress.

I agree with the fellow above. If Latvia is good enough to make 2018, they will. If not, no big loss.

The rewarding progress theme is pretty ridiculous. The little progress they have compared to the entire scope of major division hockey shouldn't be thus heralded. The same thing could happen in two years in Estonia, it wouldn't make them deserving of a spot in the Olympics. What makes them deserving as hosts is that they paid for the bid, they paid for the venues, they paid for the accommodations and so they deserve to see a team of their own, not some "progress" which has zero notability in context. I'm grudgingly accepting of their inclusion into the Olympic tournament but what poor excuse for progress this D1A-D1B elevator has is not a good reason for their inclusion. Also, Korea has no olympic qualifying group so the conversation may be getting slightly off topic.