2018 NHL Entry Draft Thread (Less then 24 Hours Edition)

[The Great Weal]

Veleno and Kotkaniemi are similar grades IMO. I know Kotkaniemi has improved his skating somewhat, but he still is a bit of a slug out there and that concerns me. I think he'll be tremendous on the PP, but 5v5 I don't think he'll be creating much.

Both guys should be viewed as 2 way #2s if they work out, and not guys that I think are going to be a cut above a Poehling by any means.

Veleno is nowhere near Kotkaniemi. Kotkaniemi can do it all, skating issues are overblown. Veleno on the other hand is a MASSIVE risk. He went on a tear at one point, and he hasn't played like that since.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Veleno and Kotkaniemi are similar grades IMO. I know Kotkaniemi has improved his skating somewhat, but he still is a bit of a slug out there and that concerns me. I think he'll be tremendous on the PP, but 5v5 I don't think he'll be creating much.

Both guys should be viewed as 2 way #2s if they work out, and not guys that I think are going to be a cut above a Poehling by any means.

You have a case for Veleno vs. Poehling in which right now, I think Poehling is the better prospect of the two. Which I know I wouldn't have said a year ago. Veleno stagnated and Poehling grew.

I don't think that's the case at all for Kotkaniemi. Like I said, skating has to improve or he's playing W at the next level. I'll be consistent on that. But in terms of hockey sense, passing ability and most importantly shooting, Kotkaniemi grades ahead easily of Veleno and Poehling.

Look at the game winning goal in the U-18s. Poehling and Veleno can't make that play and I'll tell you why. If those guys fake shot like that? I'm not freezing and I'm confident that if the puck does come at me, and I'm playing pass, I'll be able to save it because neither Poehling or Veleno have the pure finishing ability to beat a goalie clean from there. Knight absolutely had to respect that Kotkaniemi could beat him from there.

 

[crosbyshow]

Quinn Hughes at third !!

The defenseman with the more upside !!

 

[WeThreeKings]

The pick is pretty much a lay-up and people are debating picking based on NEED, which is essentially the #1 rule of what not to do when drafting.

I like Kotkaniemi, but come on. If you're so desperate for him, trade Max for a 1st and then trade up. The Top 3 players literally haven't changed all year, we are gifted a Top 3 pick and we are debating taking another player.

You are all so impressed by Kotkaniemi's U18. Maybe you should take a gander at Zadina's U18s at the ages of 16 and 17. Then take a look at his U20. Everywhere he's gone, he's been productive. No, the Habs don't have a centre like Kotkaniemi, but they also don't have a sniper like Zadina.

We are actually debating specifically on the premise that Kotkaniemi is the guy they like and have at #3 on their list. We have 3, a good healthy debate about all the options, realistic or farfetched.. and that's fine.

It all becomes for nothing when that lay-up turns into an offensive foul when the Habs take Tkachuk, not getting one of the best two wingers on the board, not getting a center, and not even getting more value from a D.

 

[417]

Chicago also tried this experiment with Kane, it went horribly bad. And he had prime Toews to do all the heavy lifting in front.

Sometimes players as good as they are or may have been in juniors, are only suited for a certain fit. Which is fine.

I'm not talking about Kane and/or the Chicago Blackhawks....so that's irrelevant.

 

[le_sean]

We are actually debating specifically on the premise that Kotkaniemi is the guy they like and have at #3 on their list. We have 3, a good healthy debate about all the options, realistic or farfetched.. and that's fine.

It all becomes for nothing when that lay-up turns into an offensive foul when the Habs take Tkachuk, not getting one of the best two wingers on the board, not getting a center, and not even getting more value from a D.

That's another subject that I hope doesn't come true.

If Jesperi is #3 on their board, fine. But it reeks picking on need to me. I think there are ways they can get both Zadina and Kotkaniemi. I think the Oilers are desperate and that pick is available. The Habs have the type of winger that they need.

 

[WeThreeKings]

That's another subject that I hope doesn't come true.

If Jesperi is #3 on their board, fine. But it reeks picking on need to me. I think there are ways they can get both Zadina and Kotkaniemi. I think the Oilers are desperate and that pick is available. The Habs have the type of winger that they need.

I don't have Kotkaniemi at 3. But if you do factor in age and progression, I don't think it's absolutely farfetched to reach for him if you project him at C.

 

[G0bias]

I apologize for posting here but I keep seeing all these skating comments on Kotkaniemi so I went back to watch last nights game and just focus on him when he's on the ice.

I just don't see any massive problems with his skating, he doesn't fly like McDavid/Mackinnon but he can skate, and is only 17y(still).
I'm sure like other top Finnish prospects before him he will focus on improving his skating more. Barkov was seen as a bad skater on draft day and today he's a beautiful skater.


edit, I also consider comparisons to ROR a bit unfair. Healthy ROR is a beast and someone every team wants to have on their team come playoffs. He's just had a ton of injury issues.

No need to apologize broski. It's still a work in progress but you're right in that there isn't any massive problems with it.

 

[BB88]

No need to apologize broski. It's still a work in progress but you're right in that there isn't any massive problems with it.

The base is there, he just needs to keep working on it.

He put up really impressive numbers for 17y rookie, wouldn't be too surprised if he's around ppg next year.
Europe is a good place to find (potential) steals, numbers in mens league rarely make you go wow and can be easily ignored because of it.

 

[WeThreeKings]

The base is there, he just needs to keep working on it.

He put up really impressive numbers for 17y rookie, wouldn't be too surprised if he's around ppg next year.
Europe is a good place to find (potential) steals, numbers in mens league rarely make you go wow and can be easily ignored because of it.

No one is saying he can't improve it.. all I am saying is that it needs to improve if he wants to play C in the NHL. That's all. If there was no question marks, in a C weak draft, he would be a consensus #3, to be honest with you.

I'm more than fine with taking Kotkaniemi at 3 if they like him enough and absolutely project him at C. But really, I'm fine with any scenario that doesn't end up with Brady Tkachuk.

 

[G0bias]

I'm not talking about Kane and/or the Chicago Blackhawks....so that's irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant in that even one of the best wingers currently in the game not only wasn't a fit but struggled at the position. Despite him even playing some back with the NTDP.

It's a tough gig and not for just anyone even if he's got speed and is a playmaker.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

You have a case for Veleno vs. Poehling in which right now, I think Poehling is the better prospect of the two. Which I know I wouldn't have said a year ago. Veleno stagnated and Poehling grew.

I don't think that's the case at all for Kotkaniemi. Like I said, skating has to improve or he's playing W at the next level. I'll be consistent on that. But in terms of hockey sense, passing ability and most importantly shooting, Kotkaniemi grades ahead easily of Veleno and Poehling.

Look at the game winning goal in the U-18s. Poehling and Veleno can't make that play and I'll tell you why. If those guys fake shot like that? I'm not freezing and I'm confident that if the puck does come at me, and I'm playing pass, I'll be able to save it because neither Poehling or Veleno have the pure finishing ability to beat a goalie clean from there. Knight absolutely had to respect that Kotkaniemi could beat him from there.

BS. You're acting like Veleno and Poehling have DD shots here, they don't. Kot has a better shot, but both guys could very much make that play and have lots of times lol

It was literally a typical 2 on 1.

 

[Per Sjoblom]

Here is my top 31. This is not how I think the draft will go down, but it's who I like.

I am doing something a little different where I'll put a "grade" just to illustrate the discrepency I see between prospects. It's not scientific like how @ProspectsFanatic did it with his software. This is strictly based on my intrinsic ratings (observations, my interpretation of statistics, general "feel" of the prospect).

1. Rasmus Dahlin (100)
2. Andrei Svechnikov (98)

3. Adam Boqvist (94)
4. Oliver Wahlstrom (92)
5. Filip Zadina (91)
6. Quinn Hughes (90)

7. Noah Dobson (88)
8. Jesperi Kotkaniemi (87)
9. Ty Smith (87)
10. Brady Tkachuk (86)

11. Evan Bouchard (85)
12. Vitaly Kravtsov (84)
13. Filip Hallander (83)
14. Jonatan Berggren (82)
15. Isac Lundestrom (81)
16. Joel Farabee (80)

17. Ty Dellandrea (79)
18. Jonathan Tychonick (77)
19. Rasmus Kupari (77)
20. Martin Kaut (77)
21. Nils Lundkvist (76)
22. Dominik Bokk (75)
23. Alexander Alexeyev (75)
24. Rasmus Sandin (70)

25. Grigori Denisenko (68)
26. Joseph Veleno (68)
27. Jacob Olofsson (67)
28. Barrett Hayton (66)
29. Jesse Ylonen (65)
30. Bode Wilde (64)
31. Liam Foudy (63)

I just posted this on the Sabres twitter page, hopefully it should make at least some of the fans a bit nervous

When Dahlin heard that The Sabres won the lottery he looked at the team's record in the last 5 years he said: "I do not want to play for the worst hockey team in North America so I rather stay in Sweden." So he signed a new contract with Frölunda. It's all over the news in Sweden

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Veleno is nowhere near Kotkaniemi. Kotkaniemi can do it all, skating issues are overblown. Veleno on the other hand is a MASSIVE risk. He went on a tear at one point, and he hasn't played like that since.

Veleno is a sure fire center, and his skating is excellent as opposed to questionable. That is MAJOR.

 

[417]

It's not irrelevant in that even one of the best wingers currently in the game not only wasn't a fit but struggled at the position. Despite him even playing some back with the NTDP.

It's a tough gig and not for just anyone even if he's got speed and is a playmaker.

well that's for Kane...

It doesn't mean Drouin can't do the transition.

Brayden Schenn played wing for the majority of his career before being traded to the Blues, he's inferior to Kane talent wise...he did the switch this year, playing behind Statsny and he blossomed.

It's not relevant. Every player is different.

 

[WeThreeKings]

BS. You're acting like Veleno and Poehling have DD shots here, they don't. Kot has a better shot, but both guys could very much make that play and have lots of times lol

It was literally a typical 2 on 1.

DD had a good slapper actually.

Veleno legitimately has a peewee shot. It's absolute garbage. Poehling doesn't have a shot that beats goalies from distance, either.

They may have made that play before but as the goalies get better and you get into the NHL, no one is biting on garbage like that from them. Just like they didn't on Gomez.

Veleno and Poehling aren't goal scorers from their shots, it's an absolute certainty.

 

[The Great Weal]

Veleno is a sure fire center, and his skating is excellent as opposed to questionable. That is MAJOR.

Surefire center, but far less potential.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

DD had a good slapper actually.

Veleno legitimately has a peewee shot. It's absolute garbage. Poehling doesn't have a shot that beats goalies from distance, either.

They may have made that play before but as the goalies get better and you get into the NHL, no one is biting on garbage like that from them. Just like they didn't on Gomez.

Veleno and Poehling aren't goal scorers from their shots, it's an absolute certainty.

Come on man, that's just BS. They may not be ripping snipes from the top of the circle consistantly, but they can still execute 2 on 1's...

 

[BB88]

No one is saying he can't improve it.. all I am saying is that it needs to improve if he wants to play C in the NHL. That's all. If there was no question marks, in a C weak draft, he would be a consensus #3, to be honest with you.

I'm more than fine with taking Kotkaniemi at 3 if they like him enough and absolutely project him at C. But really, I'm fine with any scenario that doesn't end up with Brady Tkachuk.

Yes he needs to improve, or should improve, but not by a mile or anything. A fair assumption/expectation should be that he will improve. Given his age/development/group behind him. His father is a Liiga coach and I believe they have a good idea of where he is and where he needs to get.

I believe a lot of that(bolded) is due to him playing in Europe, he's not putting up +ppg numbers in juniors, he's putting up .5ppg in Liiga as a rookie, tougher to create hype like that. If he was in juniors and putting up +ppg with a 2way game and a 6'2 frame with this u18 performance do you think he would be seen atleast as a top5 pick?

I don't know where he should go, but I belive his skating issues are made bigger than they are, the overall feeling I get after reading threads.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Come on man, that's just BS. They may not be ripping snipes from the top of the circle consistantly, but they can still execute 2 on 1's...

Your ability to freeze a NHL goalie on a 2-on-1 with a fake shot is directly correlated with your ability to actually beat a goalie from distance.

If I don't think you have the tool to beat me and it's been proven in many games that you don't, the fake isn't really worth it. If a Basketball player can't hit a 3 pointer, do you think teams are rushing out of the box to run at him at the three point line? No, they dare him to shoot it.

 

[The Great Weal]

Kotkaniemis skating>Velenos shot

 

[WeThreeKings]

Yes he needs to improve, or should improve, but not by a mile or anything. A fair assumption/expectation should be that he will improve. Given his age/development/group behind him. His father is a Liiga coach and I believe they have a good idea of where he is and where he needs to get.

I believe a lot of that(bolded) is due to him playing in Europe, he's not putting up +ppg numbers in juniors, he's putting up .05ppg in Liiga, tougher to create hype like that. If he was in juniors and putting up +ppg with a 2way game and a 6'2 frame with this u18 performance do you think he would be seen atleast as a top5 pick?

I don't know where he should go, but I belive his skating issues are made bigger than they are, the overall feeling I get after reading threads.

Visibility always helps. Strong WJCs has kept Zadina and especially Tkachuk afloat on rankings.

 

[G0bias]

well that's for Kane...

It doesn't mean Drouin can't do the transition.

Brayden Schenn played wing for the majority of his career before being traded to the Blues, he's inferior to Kane talent wise...he did the switch this year, playing behind Statsny and he blossomed.

It's not relevant. Every player is different.

Brayden Schenn had all the makings of a center and was even groomed as a one at a much younger age than Drouin is now.

Because he has it all; Brayden Schenn is a future number one center for whichever club drafts him, and he has the makeup to become a star in the NHL.

He's as much a playmaker as he is a goal scorer and he has the size to adjust to the physical play of the NHL. He has incredible hockey intelligence and and uses his blue-collar approach to the game to be as complete a player as possible. He is far from a defensive liability, and his hard work and grit have made him a force on both ends of the ice.

Drouin was always seen as tremendous talent but he was never mistaken for a complete player. I've rarely seen a player dogging it and straight up quitting on plays like he did this year.

 

[The Great Weal]

Visibility always helps. Strong WJCs has kept Zadina and especially Tkachuk afloat on rankings.

It is hard to ignore their WJC performances. Zadina especially, he was unbelievable. You are hoping that Wahlstrom can have a performance like that in his d+1 year. WJC doesn't mean everything though.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Your ability to freeze a NHL goalie on a 2-on-1 with a fake shot is directly correlated with your ability to actually beat a goalie from distance.

If I don't think you have the tool to beat me and it's been proven in many games that you don't, the fake isn't really worth it. If a Basketball player can't hit a 3 pointer, do you think teams are rushing out of the box to run at him at the three point line? No, they dare him to shoot it.

The goalie still has to come out and play the shot...