The Great Weal
Phil's Pizza
- Jan 15, 2015
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2018 NHL Entry Draft Thread (Less then 24 Hours Edition)
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Janne Niinimaa
"Character"
This thread was much more enjoyable before March. But man will it be entertaining to look back at some of these posts.
TheViperOne
Registered User
- Jul 26, 2005
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I’m really interested to see where Wahlstrom ends up. He’s probably my favorite prospect this year. I wish we could snag a pick that could land him in Montreal but that is asking too much. I see 35-40 goal talent in him.
WeThreeKings
Demidov is a HAB
Literally the first thing Bob says is that it isn't his own ranking and it's a poll of 10 NHL scouts and that it isn't where he mocks them just their order
Habs76
Registered User
WeThreeKings
Demidov is a HAB
The thing about the internet is it's impossible to verify a claim before you make it. I mean there's no way to check whether or not Bob's list is a consensus poll or his own set of rankings. You just can't get that information. There's no magical search engine that you input a query into and receive the most relevant results
MarkovsKnee
Global Moderator
Price was a definite shocker at the time. He was the topped rank goalie. Most had him in their top 20, but he was ranked all over the place. Anywhere from 8-20 that I recall, so yeah, the comparison to Kotkaniemi is noteworthy.
CauZuki
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2008
- 12,396
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Svechnikov is a beast , has the talent and destroyed the combine.
BeliveauFan4ever
Registered User
- Apr 10, 2006
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The only draft where I was completely shocked - and happy - with a Habs' No. 1 pick.
MarkovsKnee
Global Moderator
This board wasn't. I used to go back and read that draft thread for shits and giggles for a long time. The place went mental. It was great. You can't access it anymore.
BeliveauFan4ever
Registered User
- Apr 10, 2006
- 2,380
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Who were the targets of the board, can you remember?
I was stuck at work, and when Price was announced, a colleague and Leafs' fan needled about a risky pick. I shot back we just got a franchise goalie, but allowed there was no guarantee of it.
I was stunned but not angry like I was with AK.
Edit: biggest stunner was Petr Svoboda in '84. I didn't know quite what to think. A kind of neutral...WTF?
Kotkaniemi helped himself for sure with his U18s, but that is normal. He didn't shoot up from second round to first, but he's probably been bumped up few spot for sure.
If anything, I think you're just misinformed. The NHL Scouting Bureau had Kotkaniemi at #9 among Eurpean skaters at mid-term. I am not sure when that was, but let's just say it was about Jan/Feb which is halfway for most hockey leagues. So, after his rest of the season plus the U18s, he is #6.
Here are some other Kotkaniemi ranks from legit sources, so not armchair internet scouts:
ISS: #18 (April), #16 (June): +2
McKeen: #16 (April), #13 (June): +3
HockeyProspect: #10 (March), #8 (June): +2
So, taking 4 credible sources, nobody decided to arbitrarily decided to put Kotkaniemi at #3. Final ranking aside, all 4 sources didn't see him jump more than 3 spots in their own rankings from March to June.
As for Bob, he clearly states in his article that scouts are positionally biased in that they weigh centers and defencemen more than wingers. That said, Bob has been covering hockey for 35 years. He probably knows EVERY scout out there and I would assume he's probably pretty darn close to most. Bob isn't some small-time reporter from Toronto. He's an insider and his tenure as a journalist and the work he puts into his job, I would trust him when he says he worked with 10 scouts to compile his rank. While Bob does put in his opinion into his ranking, it is based on feedback from professional scouts. Even if you knew one scout, he knows a lot more than that. So no, I would not compare your relationships with NHL scouts to his.
Your opinion is a different matter. You are allowed to have one. I respect everyone's opinion here and their preferences of certain players. I may not agree, which is my right and yours, but facts are facts. Kotkaniemi didn't rocket into the top-3 out of nowhere, and not many scouts have him at #3. In fact, I am unaware of any publication that does.
Kotkaniemi is a top 5 - 7 pick as one of the youngest players in the draft. Poehling was 26th at the same age.
Andrei79
Registered User
- Jan 25, 2013
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Gilbert Brule was the big one. BJ fans were laughing their asses off. One Giants fan compared him to Crosby.
WeThreeKings
Demidov is a HAB
Here is verbatim from McKenzie's draft ranking
"TSN rankings are a forecast of how high or low a prospect is likely to be chosen on draft day. That forecast is obtained by polling 10 NHL scouts, compiling their rankings into a consensus ranking."
No opinion. Statistical consensus.
"TSN rankings are a forecast of how high or low a prospect is likely to be chosen on draft day. That forecast is obtained by polling 10 NHL scouts, compiling their rankings into a consensus ranking."
No opinion. Statistical consensus.
HabsFather
Twitter: @HabsFather
It's like the johnny-come-latelies to this thread bust in here like hillbillies to a Jerry Springer stage like ''SHUT UP! Y'ALL DON'T KNOW PROSPECTS!''
lamp9post
Registered User
- Jan 28, 2007
- 4,461
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Doesn't McKenzie himself say that his list is a consensus of a number of scouts rankings and NOT his own set of rankings?
nmv...clarified above.
WeThreeKings
Demidov is a HAB
Before the 2003 draft, Grant mentioned that Timmins was high on Getzlaf. Many posters were not impressed. Getzlaf couldn't skate, had rumours about his attitude (mostly about being lazy), and didn't even put up a point per game in the dub (how could he ever potentially be a second line centre, much less a first line centre, if he couldn't even top a point per game in his draft year?). The vehemence against Getzlaf and the hindsight results is something that's always stuck with me.
That said, I also remember the 1996 draft. As the Habs brass were going up to the podium, the commentators (one of whom was probably McKenzie) quoted either a Montreal scout or maybe Houle saying that they have made mistakes drafting size over talent before, which got me hoping they'd take Danny Briere (even though I only knew he put up a boatload of points and was a quick little guy). They ended up going with size, selecting Matt Higgins. Knowing nothing about anything, I would have made the better pick, so sometimes the uninformed do get things right.
S Bah
Registered User
Kotkaneimi after 3-4 yrs. having tree trunks for legs instead of the chicken legs he has now, will be a unstoppable PWF center not unlike LA Kings Anze Kopitar or Alex Barkov(Florida Panthers #1 leaders & centers. Go Jesperi Go!!!...
Taking this player at #3 shows the type of talent evaluation necessary in building a great team over yrs. Proper development in him & all the prospects into their respective roles as future Habs capable of driving themselves to the Top Elite NHL team IMHO!!!...
Ty Smith or Ty Dellandrea are a couple of others the Habs might consider, if they can pry those NYI's picks away from Lou for Pacioretty, Scherbak & a couple of 2nd's.
Taking this player at #3 shows the type of talent evaluation necessary in building a great team over yrs. Proper development in him & all the prospects into their respective roles as future Habs capable of driving themselves to the Top Elite NHL team IMHO!!!...Ty Smith or Ty Dellandrea are a couple of others the Habs might consider, if they can pry those NYI's picks away from Lou for Pacioretty, Scherbak & a couple of 2nd's.
Habby Patty
Registered User
Around 5:40, what Bergevin said made me like him a bit more. EVERYONE here badmouths him and I have at times too but he is trying his best to do his job. He is worried about long term success for us. Whether he is here or not.
Saxon
The Sheriff
- Mar 9, 2015
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MarkovsKnee
Global Moderator
Almost everyone thought we were taking Marc Staal. Just seemed like a Gainey guy. Plus, we didn't have a lot of organizational depth at D. He was low risk, which a lot of people wanted since Montreal busted on so many 1sts in the 90s. It had gotten tiresome.
Luc Boudon was also a good option for a lot of people.
Crosby was #1. Then after there was Jack Johnson, Bobby Ryan, Pouliot & Brule, but no one knew what order they were going in. They went Ryan, Johnson, Pouliot.
Brule was a strong do not draft among draft junkies. It was felt he was too small for the type of game he liked to play to be successful, but people weren't sure about passing over him either. Lots of debate about him.
Anze Kopitar was a hot topic. There were people who advocated for him very strongly. Kopitar fell. He was ranked 5-8 on most draft boards. He was ranked right around our spot.
There was discussion on Price, but Theodore was young and had just won the Hart, so not a lot people felt that he was even close to a "need". We needed centers and D (wow, have times changed, eh?). But, he had his supporters too. And, they were vocal about getting one of the best players in the draft after we took him. A lot of people were pissed though.
Just before picking him there were a lot of sarcastic "here comes Staal" or "Brule" comments. Then we picked Price. Oooh boy. Ha. Ha. Not only our board exploded but all the trolls coming on to call us idiots, etc for taking a goalie when we already had a young Vezina winner.
It was great thread though. It was that thread/debate that really got me into wanting to know more about our prospects and future prospects. I have followed the draft since the 80s but mostly through THN & Bobby Mac.
I used to read that thread once a year. Then they changed over to the new format and they chucked all the early years. 2012 is the latest now.
Too bad. That's probably one of my all time favorite threads.
There's a chapter about that draft in one of Gare Joyce's books. I think: Future Greats & Heartbreaks.
I'm not recommending the book, but Doug McLean, GM of Columbus at the time, his reaction to Montreal passing on Brule to take Price is hilarious. Joyce was allowed behind closed doors, so he captured that moment quite well.
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