NHL Entry Draft 2018 Draft - Prospect Discussion (Poll added)

[DJB]

Zadina certainly isnt plodding, because if he is im worried how you describe Stone and Bobby's skating.

Zadina is above average at minimum.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Plodding one dimensional goal scorer.

Yes, let’s pretend that’s exactly what Zadina is...

Yeah, I can't see Zadina being 1 dimensional. I suspect he'll be a pretty good player in his own zone, probably better than Tkachuk. Tkachuk might chirp and hit more but that's not gonna result in him defending better. Zadina is the better rounded prospect in pretty much every category at both ends of the ice.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

So would anybody be upset if Zadina turns into a 70 point winger while Tkachuk is mostly around 55 and he’s the Sens pick?

I think intangibles are sometimes overrated, but if that was their production I would take Tkachuk.

I can't put my finger on it, but I reallllly don't see Zadina putting up anywhere near 70 points. More I watch the kid, the more I get a queasy busty feel from him. He is really a boom/bust kind of pick.

Feels kinda scary picking a guy like that considering our situation and not having a pick next year (at least, not a high one even if we make trades). This pick is either going to define this team over the next 5 years, or set us back 5 years.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I can't put my finger on it, but I reallllly don't see Zadina putting up anywhere near 70 points. More I watch the kid, the more I get a queasy busty feel from him. He is really a boom/bust kind of pick.

Feels kinda scary picking a guy like that considering our situation and not having a pick next year (at least, not a high one even if we make trades). This pick is either going to define this team over the next 5 years, or set us back 5 years.

70 points is a shit ton. Who knows if svechnikov even puts up 70 points

 

[SAK11]

So would anybody be upset if Zadina turns into a 70 point winger while Tkachuk is mostly around 55 and he’s the Sens pick?

I think intangibles are sometimes overrated, but if that was their production I would take Tkachuk.

I would be upset. The last time a Sens forward had 70+ points was Spezza back in 2011-12. A 70 point player is of huge value, I'm not sure what Tkachuk is doing to make up for that point gap. If he was known as a two way centre, maybe, but he's a physical winger. As much as a guy like Simmonds helps with his physicality, it's not enough to have him be more valuable than a guy like Tarasenko.

 

[derriko]

I really should’ve expanded on my point totals in my previous post. I meant prime point totals.

If you want my average production estimates I would think Tkachuk produces like Simmonds i.e. 40-50 points a year, and Zadina more around 50-60 like Hoffman after their first year or two of development. May be low, but I didn’t see much or all of Zadina.

Also, Kotkaniemi has got 0.0 discussion here in this thread. I think I’ve maybe seen one game of his iirc. Why is he not even an topic of discussion? Are people worried about his upside? Does he end up more like a 2-3 all around C?

Shouldn’t the Sens be putting it out in the media that they like Kotkaniemi even if they aren’t really high on him? Wouldn’t that maybe deter Bergevin from trading down if he’s going to lose him? That’s what I would be doing in the situation.

 

[DJB]

As much hate as Tkachuk gets I love watching him play. His style brings a smile to my face every time I watch him and if we pick him i can't wait to watch him bury Marner and punch Mathews in the face. I'd love to see him drop the gloves with Marchand.

 

[TkachukNorris79]

70 points is a **** ton. Who knows if svechnikov even puts up 70 points

Svechnikov will absolutely, and Quinn Hughes as well. Wouldn't be surprised to see Svechnikov hit that within 3 years. Hughes probably 5ish. Took EK 4 to hit 78 but that's EK.

Zadina I see in the 60s, with like 30ish goals and assists each. Would be amped with either of Zadina or Hughes. If Tkachuk ends up being a near 60 point guy, sign me up for him too. But would rather the higher end skill and get the power forward with 22OA, especially if we go Dman at 4

 

[Alf Silfversson]

I really should’ve expanded on my point totals in my previous post. I meant prime point totals.

If you want my average production estimates I would think Tkachuk produces like Simmonds i.e. 40-50 points a year, and Zadina more around 50-60 like Hoffman after their first year or two of development. May be low, but I didn’t see much or all of Zadina.

Also, Kotkaniemi has got 0.0 discussion here in this thread. I think I’ve maybe seen one game of his iirc. Why is he not even an topic of discussion? Are people worried about his upside? Does he end up more like a 2-3 all around C?

Shouldn’t the Sens be putting it out in the media that they like Kotkaniemi even if they aren’t really high on him? Wouldn’t that maybe deter Bergevin from trading down if he’s going to lose him? That’s what I would be doing in the situation.

Love to see the Habs trade down to 7 for Kotkaniemi only to see the Sens trade down to 6 and take him.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Svechnikov will absolutely, and Quinn Hughes as well. Wouldn't be surprised to see Svechnikov hit that within 3 years. Hughes probably 5ish. Took EK 4 to hit 78 but that's EK.

Zadina I see in the 60s, with like 30ish goals and assists each. Would be amped with either of Zadina or Hughes. If Tkachuk ends up being a near 60 point guy, sign me up for him too. But would rather the higher end skill and get the power forward with 22OA, especially if we go Dman at 4

You think defenseman Hughes will get 70 points? That feels a tad optimistic.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

You think defenseman Hughes will get 70 points? That feels a tad optimistic.

Yeahhh, even some of the best Dmen of this generation haven't hit 70 points. 70 is an insane number for a D man. that's like the equivalent of a 100-110 point season for a forward.

 

[SAK11]

Svechnikov will absolutely, and Quinn Hughes as well. Wouldn't be surprised to see Svechnikov hit that within 3 years. Hughes probably 5ish. Took EK 4 to hit 78 but that's EK.

Zadina I see in the 60s, with like 30ish goals and assists each. Would be amped with either of Zadina or Hughes. If Tkachuk ends up being a near 60 point guy, sign me up for him too. But would rather the higher end skill and get the power forward with 22OA, especially if we go Dman at 4

I assume, if you see him as a 70 point d-man, that Hughes is the guy you want?

I personally don't think he'll get to that total. His skating is fantastic, he handles the puck well and has good vision, but I don't think he has much of a shot. I think your asking him to put up crazy assist numbers to get to 70 points.

 

[Ouroboros]

70 points for Quinn Hughes!

A terminal case of prospect-itis.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Do you guys ever check out mynhldraft.com?

They have Montreal taking Kotkaniemi at 3 and us taking Zadina at 4. I’d be happy with that.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

great answer. I think @ReginKarlssonLehner was single-handedly responsible for that. Although, the hype was justified.

Lol, there were definitely others who hyped him more than I, no question. You must have confused the prospects. I hyped Lehner, Karlsson, and Silfverberg more.

 

[SAK11]

Do you guys ever check out mynhldraft.com?

They have Montreal taking Kotkaniemi at 3 and us taking Zadina at 4. I’d be happy with that.

That site is good because it gives you all the different draft rankings from notable sources on one page, so you can compare McKenzie's list to Pronman's to ISS, etc.
It also puts all those lists together as one "consensus" list, although that hasn't been done yet for this year.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

As much hate as Tkachuk gets I love watching him play. His style brings a smile to my face every time I watch him and if we pick him i can't wait to watch him bury Marner and punch Mathews in the face. I'd love to see him drop the gloves with Marchand.

Same. Look at Washington's success due to Wilson. Boston due to Marchand(this is more of a special case cause he's as good a skilled player as any in the league lol). Hawks with Bickell/Byfugelin. Kings with bunch of them.

Don't get me wrong, you need elite, elite skill. I think we have that in Karlsson, Stone, and we need one more(praying its Brown).. but you also need hard-nosed hockey players who will do everything and make life hell for others. Look at our top 6, who do we have that can come close to that? Nobody.

I think Zadina can either be that extra skill guy we missing, or Tkachuk be that tough do-it-all 25-30 goal scorer we missing.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Same. Look at Washington's success due to Wilson. Boston due to Marchand(this is more of a special case cause he's as good a skilled player as any in the league lol). Hawks with Bickell/Byfugelin. Kings with bunch of them.

Don't get me wrong, you need elite, elite skill. I think we have that in Karlsson, Stone, and we need one more(praying its Brown).. but you also need hard-nosed hockey players who will do everything and make life hell for others. Look at our top 6, who do we have that can come close to that? Nobody.

I think Zadina can either be that extra skill guy we missing, or Tkachuk be that tough do-it-all 25-30 goal scorer we missing.

Tkachuk would be fine if you get him around 8, but at 4 you’d like a guy with more game breaking ability. I’m not sure if he’s a 25-30 goal guy. He might be a 40-50 point guy who is a pain to play against. I’d love to have him on my team in a playoff series.

If we draft him at 4, that’s ok, but I’d be hoping for more. Zadina is who I want, but I’m not holding my breath he’ll be there at 4.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Same. Look at Washington's success due to Wilson. Boston due to Marchand(this is more of a special case cause he's as good a skilled player as any in the league lol). Hawks with Bickell/Byfugelin. Kings with bunch of them.

Don't get me wrong, you need elite, elite skill. I think we have that in Karlsson, Stone, and we need one more(praying its Brown).. but you also need hard-nosed hockey players who will do everything and make life hell for others. Look at our top 6, who do we have that can come close to that? Nobody.

I think Zadina can either be that extra skill guy we missing, or Tkachuk be that tough do-it-all 25-30 goal scorer we missing.

All completely valid points but those teams you mentioned didn't spend a top 5 pick to get those guys. They used their lottery picks on guys like Kane, Seguin, Backstrom and Ovechkin. You wanna chase Wilsons or Byfuglien's in the later rounds and later first round be my guest but I think getting that skilled core first is instrumental. We don't have the skill yet to be a contender. Gotta start there.

 

[DJB]

The Hughes height thing is quite the conundrum . I think if he were listed at 6 feet he would be he unquestioned 3rd best prospect . His skating , vision and skill is pretty ridiculous . I think a team is getting a gem.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

The Hughes height thing is quite the conundrum . I think if he were listed at 6 feet he would be he unquestioned 3rd best prospect . His skating , vision and skill is pretty ridiculous . I think a team is getting a gem.

I dunno. This a skating league first and foremost. Being bigger is a tiny advantage when considering puck and skating skills. Height is like a tiebreaker, not a requirement. I see shorter dudes and chicks pressing and squatting more weight than me every day and I'm close to in the 1000 club as a 6ft male who lifts daily. That low center of gravity can sometimes be an advantage in a sport like hockey or soccer. Hughes has the skills, I wouldn't be scared off by him measuring less in height in a combine when you have the kind of film already on him that's out there. He's the modern NHL D. Totally worthy of a top 5 or 10 pick regardless if he's 5'10 or 5'8 imo.

 

[TkachukNorris79]

I assume, if you see him as a 70 point d-man, that Hughes is the guy you want?

I personally don't think he'll get to that total. His skating is fantastic, he handles the puck well and has good vision, but I don't think he has much of a shot. I think your asking him to put up crazy assist numbers to get to 70 points.

It's kinda tough to say who I prefer. It should be BPA but we do have fo factor in what is happening with EK. If we are trading him, now is the perfect time to draft a stud Dman. And I do think Hughes will be an offensive stud.

In terms of the shot thing, I do agree. It's not the greatest. And again, I'm not saying he's going to become EK. But does Karl have the best shot? Not really. He snipes a few times a year (Game 1 NYR ) , but one of his best offensive attributes is just getting the shot through. If Hughes can develop that, then yeah maybe he gets 20 goals in his prime. And 50 assists, which isn't crazy if he's a PP QB.

I'm pretty high on him. Skating, puck handling and IQ are off the charts. Hopefully he can add a couple inches of height

 

[L'Aveuglette]

You know you're on HF when there's a number of people making a case not to pick Zadina at 4 if he's available.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

You know you're on HF when there's a number of people making a case not to pick Zadina at 4 if he's available.

Not that I agree with it, but lots of people in hockey believe Zadina shouldn't be a top 4 pick. Ultimately, I'd guess that most of us are basing our rankings on rankings of those very same scouts and executives - the guys who had him as a 2/3 prospect in this draft before are the same ones who now have 3, 4, 5, + players ahead of him.

 

[Neiler]

Just watch the 10 minute highlight package from the juniors for both Tkachuk and Zadina and you can start to see why there is a debate.

After 10 minutes of Tkachuk it looks like you're getting a very well rounded, pain in the ass kind of kid who is not afraid of getting dirty.

After 10 minutes of Zadina it feels like you just watched a slightly more talented Hoffman highlight reel.

I am not suggesting either is a bad pick. But with you look at it with an open mind some things start to stick out. Like hitting. Like teamwork.