Line Combos: 2018-19 Starting Roster II

[Halberdier]

Little is not the problem.

Perreault is the answer.

Little is not the problem, but playing Laine and Little have been the problem. PLL has been obviously better than ELL, but much worse than all other Laine lines that have been experimented for more than a couple of games. (And probably worse than those too).

There is long history and a lot of hard data available. It's not only one 0+0 PLL game against Blues that made people less hopeful about Laine and Little ever finding a connection together.

It's great that Laine can make some goal scoring opportunities all by himself and excellent that Perreault is there as he is a high IQ passer, but really guys, you need to admit you have been wrong for the first 2 seasons.

I was also wrong about Laine & Little duo back then in 16-17. It looked great for the first 10 games, maybe even more. Was also producing at good rate. As time went by and their game was looking worse and worse together and their stats together were abysmal, I had to admit that I had been wrong.

Maybe the main problem is that both Laine and Little are opportunistic scorers that also want to play that lower spot a lot. Laine could go in deep, but you can't score from there, so logical solution would be that Little would change his approach for the offensive game to do more forecheck and playmaking, and trust Laine more on the defensive backchecking.

 

[LowLefty]

Little is not the problem, but playing Laine and Little have been the problem. PLL has been obviously better than ELL, but much worse than all other Laine lines that have been experimented for more than a couple of games. (And probably worse than those too).

There is long history and a lot of hard data available. It's not only one 0+0 PLL game against Blues that made people less hopeful about Laine and Little ever finding a connection together.

It's great that Laine can make some goal scoring opportunities all by himself and excellent that Perreault is there as he is a high IQ passer, but really guys, you need to admit you have been wrong for the first 2 seasons.

I was also wrong about Laine & Little duo back then in 16-17. It looked great for the first 10 games, maybe even more. Was also producing at good rate. As time went by and their game was looking worse and worse together and their stats together were abysmal, I had to admit that I had been wrong.

Maybe the main problem is that both Laine and Little are opportunistic scorers that also want to play that lower spot a lot. Laine could go in deep, but you can't score from there, so logical solution would be that Little would change his approach for the offensive game to do more forecheck and playmaking, and trust Laine more on the defensive backchecking.

I'd suggest that maybe Laine starts tracking down loose pucks and digging into the corners a little bit more - that would be a nice addition to his game.
Let him go in deep - it would be refreshing to see him involved in a puck battle every once in a while - I know Maurice would love to see it happen more often.

 

[Maukkis]

Perreault Scheifele Laine have been very good in their time together, mostly from 16-17 season and Scheifele is only getting better, that's your center if you want to tie the two at the hip. Seeing as you mentioned Little I assume you want PLL, why not just come out and say it. Perreault and Laine don't have some amazing track record together and if Little doesn't bounce back from last year offensively there's no reason to think that PLL will blow up to be an elite line.

PLL @ 5v5 in 2016-19 (as long as Laine has been in the show)

TOI: 197:06
CF%: 54.67
(Goal differential is even, but the results are hideously PDO-driven. For instance, these guys played over 60% of their total ice time in 16-17 and were backed up by whopping .800 goaltending. Similarly, their PDO of 110+ sure helped them last year.)

Perreault+Laine @ 5v5, same time frame

TOI: 390:56
Corsi: 52.78%
(The same applies to GD here. Even, and holy f***ing hell what is that goaltending they have had.)

Keep in mind that the Jets were bad and Laine was a rookie for majority of the time they have spent together.

I recently put it this way: Perreault is very good at everything Laine cannot do. Boardplay? Check. Driving offense himself? Got it. Play without the puck. Right on. Generating chances for his teammates? Well, Laine is definitely not bad at that, but holy hell, can Perreault do that ever so well. 85 is everything you want in a linemate for 29. And because Laine is great at most things he can do on the ice, that duo is bound to work like a charm.

There is no doubt in my mind that one could not build a line centered around Laine. But in order to do that, Laine needs someone to support him in the areas of the game he either isn't suited for or cannot do efficiently. In other words, he needs a Perreault. Ehlers lived off having the puck a bit too much, even if he was able to drive offense himself. Little wasn't of enough help offensively, but his defensive skills are a valuable balancing act in this puzzle.

We are in a glorious situation: we can have Scheifele-Wheeler on one line, Perreault-Laine on another, a world class checking line - and still have two guys with combined 42 years of age and 60 goals from last season. Doesn't get much better than this.

 

[Ukkosenjumala]

PLL @ 5v5 in 2016-19 (as long as Laine has been in the show)

TOI: 197:06
CF%: 54.67
(Goal differential is even, but the results are hideously PDO-driven. For instance, these guys played over 60% of their total ice time in 16-17 and were backed up by whopping .800 goaltending. Similarly, their PDO of 110+ sure helped them last year.)

Perreault+Laine @ 5v5, same time frame

TOI: 390:56
Corsi: 52.78%
(The same applies to GD here. Even, and holy ****ing hell what is that goaltending they have had.)

Keep in mind that the Jets were bad and Laine was a rookie for majority of the time they have spent together.

I recently put it this way: Perreault is very good at everything Laine cannot do. Boardplay? Check. Driving offense himself? Got it. Play without the puck. Right on. Generating chances for his teammates? Well, Laine is definitely not bad at that, but holy hell, can Perreault do that ever so well. 85 is everything you want in a linemate for 29. And because Laine is great at most things he can do on the ice, that duo is bound to work like a charm.

There is no doubt in my mind that one could not build a line centered around Laine. But in order to do that, Laine needs someone to support him in the areas of the game he either isn't suited for or cannot do efficiently. In other words, he needs a Perreault. Ehlers lived off having the puck a bit too much, even if he was able to drive offense himself. Little wasn't of enough help offensively, but his defensive skills are a valuable balancing act in this puzzle.

We are in a glorious situation: we can have Scheifele-Wheeler on one line, Perreault-Laine on another, a world class checking line - and still have two guys with combined 42 years of age and 60 goals from last season. Doesn't get much better than this.

I know they have a CF% slightly above 50 percent which is neither unusual or that telling in todays game. They weren't making any waves let's put it that way.

Back to Perreault Scheifele Laine if we're to make it a numbers game, around 120 TOI overall, almost 60 CF% overall, over 60% GF, domination in high danger scoring chances while getting the same 16-17 goaltending treatment. So if you want to pair a very likely rocket richard winner who CAN indeed drive offense by himself , as just one example of many, you better put the right center with him. I disagree about his play without the puck as well but that's neither here or there. I don't disagree that Perreault and Laine are a good match, you're the one who made it about Little. We'll see how PLL will do in the upcoming games and once that happens we can speculate better what line combos would be the best.

 

[Halberdier]

PLL @ 5v5 in 2016-19 (as long as Laine has been in the show)

TOI: 197:06
CF%: 54.67
(Goal differential is even, but the results are hideously PDO-driven. For instance, these guys played over 60% of their total ice time in 16-17 and were backed up by whopping .800 goaltending. Similarly, their PDO of 110+ sure helped them last year.)

Perreault+Laine @ 5v5, same time frame

TOI: 390:56
Corsi: 52.78%
(The same applies to GD here. Even, and holy ****ing hell what is that goaltending they have had.)

Keep in mind that the Jets were bad and Laine was a rookie for majority of the time they have spent together.

I recently put it this way: Perreault is very good at everything Laine cannot do. Boardplay? Check. Driving offense himself? Got it. Play without the puck. Right on. Generating chances for his teammates? Well, Laine is definitely not bad at that, but holy hell, can Perreault do that ever so well. 85 is everything you want in a linemate for 29. And because Laine is great at most things he can do on the ice, that duo is bound to work like a charm.

There is no doubt in my mind that one could not build a line centered around Laine. But in order to do that, Laine needs someone to support him in the areas of the game he either isn't suited for or cannot do efficiently. In other words, he needs a Perreault. Ehlers lived off having the puck a bit too much, even if he was able to drive offense himself. Little wasn't of enough help offensively, but his defensive skills are a valuable balancing act in this puzzle.

We are in a glorious situation: we can have Scheifele-Wheeler on one line, Perreault-Laine on another, a world class checking line - and still have two guys with combined 42 years of age and 60 goals from last season. Doesn't get much better than this.

Don't get us wrong. I guess nobody has bitched about playing Perreault together with Laine. Only that you should not play Little with Laine. Perreault - Scheifele - Laine for example was a very good line.

However, there is no such thing as "PDO driven". High PDO is one of the end results, like high SH% is, but it's a problem when sample sizes are minimal and we are talking about 66 minute TOI and 5 goals scored for. Also during that same "60% of the time bad goaltending" PLL had 16-17 ESL (and PSL, and heck I guess even SSL and CSL) was just dynamite, while having "100% of the time bad goaltending". So regardless if you compare 16-17 lines with Little to 16-17 w/o Little or 17-18 to 17-18, things are not going to your direction.

Also actually their defensive game was miserably broken during early 17-18 with mostly pretty good goaltending. It's bit like a miracle that they officially had only one goal against. If I recall it correctly, that was against Oilers and Little got excited about McDavid (not blaming him, who would not, everyone does that with McDavid), forgot his guy behind his back and the rest is history. It might be they never even scored on that, but that was almost exactly a year ago and haven't seen it since so I might be completely wrong on this, which is not a new thing for me.

If you did compare the most meaningful numbers with lines Laine has been playing with Little and those without, you would not come into any other conclusion than to suggest separating them. Story with Perreault is vastly different. Rather than separating Perreault and Laine, I guess you would like to keep them together.

(Btw. I'm not interested pure corsi that much. All lines with Perreault are high on Corsi, but not necessarily on real goals. Perreault is really good player, but his otherworldy Corsi fools you that he could be otherworldy player as well. He is not. He is perfect example how Corsi doesn't score your goals.)

 

[Halberdier]

I'd suggest that maybe Laine starts tracking down loose pucks and digging into the corners a little bit more - that would be a nice addition to his game.
Let him go in deep - it would be refreshing to see him involved in a puck battle every once in a while - I know Maurice would love to see it happen more often.

And every once in a while he does that. Has done since his very first NHL shift played.

It's not foolish to use him in a role to do that very often, as for the team most efficient way to use him is to feed him most, not that he feeds most. For that exact reason something like Perreault - Scheifele - Laine would be a dream match, and so could be that man in your avatar with Scheif & Laine.

One thing Laine does particularly well considering he is not the human cannon ball called Tanev: hitting his guys in deep. Every once in a while these generate turnovers.

 

[LowLefty]

And every once in a while he does that. Has done since his very first NHL shift played.

It's not foolish to use him in a role to do that very often, as for the team most efficient way to use him is to feed him most, not that he feeds most. For that exact reason something like Perreault - Scheifele - Laine would be a dream match, and so could be that man in your avatar with Scheif & Laine.

One thing Laine does particularly well considering he is not the human cannon ball called Tanev: hitting his guys in deep. Every once in a while these generate turnovers.

Yes, he does hit in deep - I'd like to see him strip the puck every once in a while.
He's had a good first period tonight doing a few of the things we are talking about - good to see - I like his game tonight

 

[Halberdier]

Yes, he does hit in deep - I'd like to see him strip the puck every once in a while.
He's had a good first period tonight doing a few of the things we are talking about - good to see - I like his game tonight

He was quite good on those on FEL, but has been physically not ready yet to do that on NHL level regularly. Just patience is needed, as he is still at least a couple of years away of his physical peak. Maybe a lot more, if he follows Wheeler development curve. Big guy with long limbs anyway, so patience with the kid.

 

[Slapshot Sultan]

I would like to see Connor and Laine on the same line. I think both of them have improved a ton and could mesh pretty good together. Have they ever been tried together?

 

[PhilJets]

I would like to see Connor and Laine on the same line. I think both of them have improved a ton and could mesh pretty good together. Have they ever been tried together?

Yup

They did well

 

[Halberdier]

Yup

They did well

They did well, though sample size is smallish. CWL has been their only longer experience together, but I'd love to see CSL.

I think Connor had an assist for Laine's first ever NHL goal. Not sure, but they might have had Connor-Perreault-Laine line for their first NHL game.

 

[Trilliann]

They did well, though sample size is smallish. CWL has been their only longer experience together, but I'd love to see CSL.

I think Connor had an assist for Laine's first ever NHL goal. Not sure, but they might have had Connor-Perreault-Laine line for their first NHL game.

Yes he did. they started on the 3rd line, 29, 85, 81, but then Little was injured in the 1st period and things changed

 

[Rene Saari]

My roster to start the year

Wheeler/Scheif/Connor
Perreault/Little/Laine
Ehlers/Roslo/Vesa
Copp/Lowry/Tanev

Trouba/Morrissey
Morrow/Buff
Kuli/Myers

Dano/Lemieux
Chairot

Helly
Brossoit


Honestly its a stupid strong lineup.

It is a stupid line up.
Not so strong.

 

[PhilJets]

Connor Schiefele Laine
Ehlers Little Wheeler
Perrault Roslovic Dano
Copp Lowry Tanev

Morrissey Byfuglien
Niku Trouba
Kulikov Myers

Hellybuyck

 

[Howard Chuck]

I'd suggest that maybe Laine starts tracking down loose pucks and digging into the corners a little bit more - that would be a nice addition to his game.
Let him go in deep - it would be refreshing to see him involved in a puck battle every once in a while - I know Maurice would love to see it happen more often.

He did exactly that in the last game. He looked great winning puck battles and playing deeper.

Then he sat.

 

[LowLefty]

He did exactly that in the last game. He looked great winning puck battles and playing deeper.

Then he sat.

Agreed - I thought his 1st period was great and I've called that out in a couple of different threads since

 

[ps241]

I am getting line up debate fatigue and we are two games into the season.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Agreed - I thought his 1st period was great and I've called that out in a couple of different threads since

If he starts took like this is now his game going forward, then Maurice is going to have to find more ice time for him. Him and Ehlers are being wasted right now. Maybe we need to think about a trade for a better 2c or throw roslovic into the deep end.

We have more talent than almost any team in the league, it’s a shame to see it not being optimized. I’ll give it a couple more games to see what Maurice’s game plan is, but it’s painful to watch right now.

 

[DashingDane]

If he starts took like this is now his game going forward, then Maurice is going to have to find more ice time for him. Him and Ehlers are being wasted right now. Maybe we need to think about a trade for a better 2c or throw roslovic into the deep end.

We have more talent than almost any team in the league, it’s a shame to see it not being optimized. I’ll give it a couple more games to see what Maurice’s game plan is, but it’s painful to watch right now.

Completely agree! It's way to early in the season to say for sure but if it isn't worked out I'd be looking to trade one of Ehlers and Connor for a good young defender or center...

 

[GNP]

Completely agree! It's way to early in the season to say for sure but if it isn't worked out I'd be looking to trade one of Ehlers or Connor for a good young defender or center...

_______________________________________________________

Yikes --I never thought I'd see the day when the Dashing Dane would post a comment that would suggest trading Nik Ehlers ?? I will say though -- if we could get the right 2nd line center, it's not a bad deal at all. I forget the guys name, but that young center-Barzal, (Islanders) I believe his name is, would be a pretty damn good deal, both ways. I'd really hate to see Ehlers or Connor traded though--2 of my faves.

 

[garret9]

Why don't they just give Ehlers the Kane treatment?
Every once in a while, when the Lowry line is playing his non-shutdown shifts (which believe it or not happens more often than one would think), swap Tanev for Ehlers?

 

[DashingDane]

_______________________________________________________

Yikes --I never thought I'd see the day when the Dashing Dane would post a comment that would suggest trading Nik Ehlers ?? I will say though -- if we could get the right 2nd line center, it's not a bad deal at all. I forget the guys name, but that young center-Barzal,(Islanders) I believe his name is, would be a pretty damn good deal, both ways. I'd really hate to see Ehlers or Connor traded though--2 of my faves.

I'd hate so see him leave and would probably cry myself to sleep
But if the Jets end up under utilizing their good players consistently I'd suggest it's a win/win to swap out a stacked position with one that is lacking so the player can be used properly and the team can be successful.

 

[Board Bard]

Completely agree! It's way to early in the season to say for sure but if it isn't worked out I'd be looking to trade one of Ehlers and Connor for a good young defender or center...

I'd rather they trade Maurice and give Kompon the job. When Maurice and Kompon have a chat behind the bench during a game, Kompon usually walks away with a look of complete bewilderment on his face.

 

[GNP]

I'd hate so see him leave and would probably cry myself to sleep
But if the Jets end up under utilizing their good players consistently I'd suggest it's a win/win to swap out a stacked position with one that is lacking so the player can be used properly and the team can be successful.

_______________________________________________________

I have to agree with you Dane -- at this point I just don't think an amazing talent like Ehlers is being utilized properly. It's only the 2nd game of the season, and I'm sure Maurice will figure it out, as he's a smart hockey man.

The Jet's problem right now is at 2nd line center in my opinion.

 

[JetsUK]

Would be nice to see KVes swapped out now, and to see Ehlers move up, or at least get more shifts in. PoMo has strengths as a coach but he does tend to stick with some combos past their sell by date, IMO. And I have no idea why Ehlers isn’t on his offside on PP2, where he has been dominant.