Line Combos: 2018-19 Roster Thread - Perry who?

[Ducks DVM]

RC has been past the second round of the playoffs three times in 13 years of coaching - 2006, 2007., and 2017. He’s missed the playoffs just as many times, and been fired only 1 fewer times. He’s nowhere near one of the best playoff coaches out there.

 

[Daz28]

I don't like that top 9. I think Perry and Eaves are too similar in style personally. Would rather both not be on the same line.

Rakell-Getzlaf-Eaves
Cogs-Kes-Silfverberg
Kase-Rico-Perry
Ritchie-Rowney-Gibbons

This leaves Perry as the liability he is. My idea was a smart, veteran line that can cycle you so much you won't be able to do anything but line change after, because our D is too mobile to counter if the forwards are tired. That leaves my third line as a transition beast, which will make coaches pee their pants for match-ups at Ponda.

 

[bsu]

Just put Cogs with Perry, they do it every off season/training camp it looks good then they don't even try it.

 

[KelVarnsen]

Last year's playoffs with the team missing Fowler and the corpse of Kesler

I know you love RC but he was terrible in the playoffs last year. Please see Paul’s Post as I agree with all of it. RC needs to go.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

RC has been past the second round of the playoffs three times in 13 years of coaching - 2006, 2007., and 2017. He’s missed the playoffs just as many times, and been fired only 1 fewer times. He’s nowhere near one of the best playoff coaches out there.

I'm certainly not going to defend a take saying RC is one of the best playoff coaches in the league, but that stat line isn't nearly as unimpressive as you think it is. Mike Babcock has only made it past the 2nd round one more time in two more years of coaching, for example. Making the conference final 3 times in 13 years is pretty decent, if not actually quite good.

 

[AngelDuck]

It’s possible for carlyle’s Playoff track record to be solid and to also think he should have been fired.

Hes had reasonable success to the point where it’s weird to say he’s had a bad career or is among the worst coaches ever. But this team needs a different direction right now.theres nothing wrong with saying thank you for your contributions and going with someone else.

Having said that, the guy will be gone before 2019-2020. At this point this season is what it is for me

 

[rlstine]

RC has been past the second round of the playoffs three times in 13 years of coaching - 2006, 2007., and 2017. He’s missed the playoffs just as many times, and been fired only 1 fewer times. He’s nowhere near one of the best playoff coaches out there.

Here are the playoff win percentages of a few select coaches:

Randy Carlyle: 0.544
Darryl Sutter: 0.524
Mike Babcock: 0.554
Peter Laviolette: 0.533
Bruce Boudreau: 0.478
Jon Cooper: 0.563
Mike Sullivan: 0.603
Peter DeBoer: 0.563
Gerard Gallant: 0.577
Barry Trotz: 0.487

Coaching doesn't matter as much as you'd think. Carlyle's not perfect but he's fine.

 

[imjustzach]

Here are the playoff win percentages of a few select coaches:

Randy Carlyle: 0.544
Darryl Sutter: 0.524
Mike Babcock: 0.554
Peter Laviolette: 0.533
Bruce Boudreau: 0.478
Jon Cooper: 0.563
Mike Sullivan: 0.603
Peter DeBoer: 0.563
Gerard Gallant: 0.577
Barry Trotz: 0.487

Coaching doesn't matter as much as you'd think. Carlyle's not perfect but he's fine.

I'm not going to say RC is a good or bad coach because I don't have enough knowledge about NHL level coaching to make that call but I think it's important to remember that all things should be taken in context. Winning percentage is good to look at but you also have to look at the teams they were coaching. For example, Babcock taking our '03 roster to the finals I find more impressive than RC winning the cup with our '07 roster but strictly in terms of wins, RC had more playoff wins than MB in those respective years. Sure, Jiggy probably had one of (if not THE) greatest goalie playoff performances in NHL history but the rosters were otherwise night and day in comparison.

As much as RC's playstyle is frustrating to watch, it's easy to scapegoat when expectations aren't met. We thought he was going to be horrible in his initial return and he took us to the WCF and broke our g7 curse. Personally I would have liked to see RC go since I don't see him as being the one to change the system but at the end of the day I'll trust in GMBM and hope for the best. After all, speculation was that Bob might be on the hot seat too if the Ducks can't put up a good showing this year so I doubt he'd let RC keep his job if he didn't think it was the best choice for the franchise.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Here are the playoff win percentages of a few select coaches:

Randy Carlyle: 0.544
Darryl Sutter: 0.524
Mike Babcock: 0.554
Peter Laviolette: 0.533
Bruce Boudreau: 0.478
Jon Cooper: 0.563
Mike Sullivan: 0.603
Peter DeBoer: 0.563
Gerard Gallant: 0.577
Barry Trotz: 0.487

Coaching doesn't matter as much as you'd think. Carlyle's not perfect but he's fine.

That last part is kind of my take as well. I'm just pretty apathetic towards it, it really doesn't seem to matter much unless it's someone very bad and I don't think RC is that. By far my biggest issue with him was how he used the 4th line, so if that does indeed change like Murray said it would, that's enough for me right now.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Here are the playoff win percentages of a few select coaches:

Randy Carlyle: 0.544
Darryl Sutter: 0.524
Mike Babcock: 0.554
Peter Laviolette: 0.533
Bruce Boudreau: 0.478
Jon Cooper: 0.563
Mike Sullivan: 0.603
Peter DeBoer: 0.563
Gerard Gallant: 0.577
Barry Trotz: 0.487

Coaching doesn't matter as much as you'd think. Carlyle's not perfect but he's fine.

I wasn’t talking winning percentage, I was talking advancing. RC has only gotten past the first round with stacked teams. He also doesn’t have any of what I’d consider “underdog wins”, and has had some truly awe inspiring chokes. Say what you want about BB, he’s never blown a 3 goal lead in the 3rd period of a game 7, let alone a 2 goal lead in the last 90 seconds of a game 7.

I’m not saying he’s the worst playoff coach out there. But I see zero wins on his resume when his team wasn’t the favorite. (No, Edmonton was not actually the favorite in that series).

 

[ADHB]

If you take out 2007, where he coached what is probably the best cap era team in the history of the league, what is his record?

 

[Deuce22]

We can argue about what kind of playoff coach RC has been, but that's not the point. The point is that he's not the right coach for this team now. Examples:

-Overplayed Getzlaf late in the season (lots of PK time) leaving him with little left in the tank for playoffs. This is one of the reasons he was fired the first time-heavy use of the top liners and the absolute refusal to ever develop a competent 4th line.

-Inability to use personnel to its maximum potential. The strength of this team is puck moving D and he insists on a dump and chase attack when our forwards are not fast.

-The team quit on him in Game 3.

-Rigid, inflexible coaching style. Stuck in what worked in the past and seemingly unable/unwilling to adjust.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

I wasn’t talking winning percentage, I was talking advancing. RC has only gotten past the first round with stacked teams. He also doesn’t have any of what I’d consider “underdog wins”, and has had some truly awe inspiring chokes. Say what you want about BB, he’s never blown a 3 goal lead in the 3rd period of a game 7, let alone a 2 goal lead in the last 90 seconds of a game 7.

I’m not saying he’s the worst playoff coach out there. But I see zero wins on his resume when his team wasn’t the favorite. (No, Edmonton was not actually the favorite in that series).

What? We were the 6th seed in 2006 and the 8th seed in 2009, those teams were definitely not stacked and were absolutely not the favorite in their first round victories. We also weren't the favorite in 07 vs Detroit, although yes that team was great.

And BB's never blown a 3 goal lead in a game 7? No shit, considering hes never had more than a one goal lead in one and has had his teams lead a game 7 for maybe fifteen minutes combined over his decade in NHL coaching. Yes, that one game is definitely worse than the decade of futility.

You're really not making a great case when pretty much all your points are blatant lies and mistruths. And it's not even a hard case to make, it should be very easy!

 

[Masch78]

I can understand when people critizise Randy for his stlye of hockey or not rolling a 4th line.

How would you call a coach who had a winning percentage of 0.594, 0.512, 0.563 with a weak Toronto team and 0.640, 0.616 with ANA a bad coach? Especially when you consider the injuries of ANA last fall. Randy has a better overall record in the NHL than Travis Green had in the AHL.

Randy for sure is not up to date in his style but he managed to win hockey games. And I don't care if Gibby was the reason. The goalie is part of the game.

 

[Masch78]

What? We were the 6th seed in 2006 and the 8th seed in 2009, those teams were definitely not stacked and were absolutely not the favorite in their first round victories. We also weren't the favorite in 07 vs Detroit, although yes that team was great.

I don't know, Chris Pronger said eveything but the cup would have been a disappointment in 07.

 

[Ducks DVM]

What? We were the 6th seed in 2006 and the 8th seed in 2009, those teams were definitely not stacked and were absolutely not the favorite in their first round victories. We also weren't the favorite in 07 vs Detroit, although yes that team was great.

And BB's never blown a 3 goal lead in a game 7? No ****, considering hes never had more than a one goal lead in one and has had his teams lead a game 7 for maybe fifteen minutes combined over his decade in NHL coaching. Yes, that one game is definitely worse than the decade of futility.

You're really not making a great case when pretty much all your points are blatant lies and mistruths. And it's not even a hard case to make, it should be very easy!

You should probably look into what a blatant lie or mistruth is - this thread is about opinions.

In ‘06 they had the Flames who led the less than impressive Northwest, then the #7 seed in Colorado, then lost to the #8 seed Edmonton. Woohoo? You got me? ‘09 had the Sharks in freefall at the time they reached the playoffs (research just how well they did against playoff teams from February on), and Anaheim was a fake #8 seed because of the injuries they’d had . Again, not really so impressive, and more importantly - NINE YEARS AGO. Against ‘07 Detroit they weren’t a favorite, but they also weren’t an underdog in the sense that anyone was shocked that they won. Identify the amazing wins for me that make him one of the best playoff coaches? I’m not seeing it. I’m seeing a lot of Game 6 exits, uninspired play, and not making his teams better than the sum of its parts.

Yes, blowing a 2 goal lead in a Game 7 in the last 90 seconds is far worse than anything B.B. did. Sorry, that’s collapse of a literally historic level.

Note - this isn’t a binary statement. I never said or implied he was one of the worst playoff coaches around.

 

[Paul4587]

I think on paper we were absolutely the favourites against 07 Detroit.

Anyways that’s beside the point. RC was a good coach. Until 2009. Since then he’s been meh and his only good run since then was a result of drawing two horrific opponents.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

You should probably look into what a blatant lie or mistruth is - this thread is about opinions.

In ‘06 they had the Flames who led the less than impressive Northwest, then the #7 seed in Colorado, then lost to the #8 seed Edmonton. Woohoo? You got me? ‘09 had the Sharks in freefall at the time they reached the playoffs (research just how well they did against playoff teams from February on), and Anaheim was a fake #8 seed because of the injuries they’d had . Again, not really so impressive, and more importantly - NINE YEARS AGO. Against ‘07 Detroit they weren’t a favorite, but they also weren’t an underdog in the sense that anyone was shocked that they won. Identify the amazing wins for me that make him one of the best playoff coaches? I’m not seeing it. I’m seeing a lot of Game 6 exits, uninspired play, and not making his teams better than the sum of its parts.

Yes, blowing a 2 goal lead in a Game 7 in the last 90 seconds is far worse than anything B.B. did. Sorry, that’s collapse of a literally historic level.

Note - this isn’t a binary statement. I never said or implied he was one of the worst playoff coaches around.

I clearly said he wasn't one of the best playoff coaches(and that this was an easy argument to make that you screwed up because you'd rather not be honest for some reason), I'm just calling you out on some clear BS. You dont get to say "woohoo you got me" when you make a dumb and objectively false statement and get called out on it. Yeah sure, all of this happened years ago, but I'm not the one who tried to claim hes never won a playoff series when he wasn't the favorite(3-2 series record as the lower seed) or had a stacked team(LOL), and don't get me started on the BB shit. Again, this isnt a hard case to make, that doesn't mean you're not completely wrong.

These are lies and mistruths. Some of this stuff is absolutely not opinion, but more than that, if you're not lying to us then you're definitely lying to yourself.

EDIT-Also, you are making it a binary statement. When you say hes never won one series without a stacked team, false as that is, and compare him(negatively no less!) to the guy most would say is the worst playoff coach in the league, what else are you trying to say other than hes one of the worst playoff coaches?

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

I don't know, Chris Pronger said eveything but the cup would have been a disappointment in 07.

There are no less than 10 teams who feel this exact way every year. Yes that team was great and so was that Detroit team and either way it's really close, just pointing out they were the higher seed and were the favorites by every objective measure at the time.

 

[Static]

I love retroactively taking credit away because we don't like him now. Classic strategy, we don't like you so everything you do sucks.

Carlyle can be both really good then and also really wrong now. I don't even like him and want him out, but this stuff is such nonsense.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I clearly said he wasn't one of the best playoff coaches(and that this was an easy argument to make that you screwed up because you'd rather not be honest for some reason), I'm just calling you out on some clear BS. You dont get to say "woohoo you got me" when you make a dumb and objectively false statement and get called out on it. Yeah sure, all of this happened years ago, but I'm not the one who tried to claim hes never won a playoff series when he wasn't the favorite(3-2 series record as the lower seed) or had a stacked team(LOL), and don't get me started on the BB ****. Again, this isnt a hard case to make, that doesn't mean you're not completely wrong.

These are lies and mistruths. Some of this stuff is absolutely not opinion, but more than that, if you're not lying to us then you're definitely lying to yourself.

No, those are a difference of opinions as to what an “underdog” is. As far as a stacked team, identify how many times he’s advanced past the first round without either having the clearly better/dominant team and/or multiple first ballot HOF players?

BB being bad doesn’t mean RC’s Toronto collapse isn’t worse. That’s an opinion, not a fact, meaning it isn’t a lie or a mistruth.

Regardless, this is a waste of time. You can call me a liar again if you need to, but if it will help you sleep nights I’ll amend the original statement to say “since 2009”. Since 2009, he’s done nothing to show he’s one of the top playoff coaches in the league. I still believe what I said, but since 2009 it’s an unassailable argument. Here’s a cookie.

 

[Duck Off]

It's irrelevant to anti fighting posters but I think it's plenty relevant to teams looking to add someone capable of dropping the gloves. And I posted about if he's a 4th liner he's amongst the best and proven he has a chance to have top 6 upside best case. Something players like the crap they've signed definitely do not.
Worst case you get a huge 4th line heavyweight that will score double digit goals and win most of his fights

I am in no way "anti fighting". I am actually probably more one of the pro fighting camp here (nowhere near as much as you obviously though). However, no one should give that much thought in the grand scheme of things. I'd rather have an enforcer who enforces and loses half his fights, than an enforcer who rarely enforces and wins all his fights. That's why I said how good of a fighter someone is, is essentially irrelevant. Maybe not completely, but mostly.

As for Stewart, if it's cheap 1 year deal, then I'd be fine with it, but disagree about the top 6 upside completely.

 

[Duck Off]

Carlyle is a good playoff coach, but his inability to see "big picture" negates a lot of that IMO. You have to keep "big picture" in mind, and he's openly admitted that he doesn't do that. On the cup team, he had a freak of nature in endurance with Scotty, and a stacked team so it didn't cost him. No doubt in mind that the mins he gave some players completely gassed them the past 2 years. That's inexcusable IMO.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

No, those are a difference of opinions as to what an “underdog” is. As far as a stacked team, identify how many times he’s advanced past the first round without either having the clearly better/dominant team and/or multiple first ballot HOF players?

BB being bad doesn’t mean RC’s Toronto collapse isn’t worse. That’s an opinion, not a fact, meaning it isn’t a lie or a mistruth.

Regardless, this is a waste of time. You can call me a liar again if you need to, but if it will help you sleep nights I’ll amend the original statement to say “since 2009”. Since 2009, he’s done nothing to show he’s one of the top playoff coaches in the league. I still believe what I said, but since 2009 it’s an unassailable argument. Here’s a cookie.

Lol come on, that is nowhere the same thing as a stacked team, you've completely backed off the bad favorites comment and are now down to "1 vs 8 wasn't really an underdog". I think that speaks for itself.

It's also not worse when Boudreau hasn't come close to having a team even be in position to blow a 3 or even 2 goal lead in a game 7. You really wanna argue that one game was worse than the multiple blowouts BB has been there for just because Randy's team was actually in an actual position to win? Good grief. I'm also guessing that while you want to completely hang that one on Randy you also wouldn't give him a single ounce of credit for being on the winning side of one of the greatest comebacks in NHL history.

I'm calling you a liar because you're lying. Static put it best, you dont like the guy but apparently saying hes bad today isnt good enough. That's borderline deranged. I've also said multiple times that I dont think hes one of the top playoff coaches in the league and that this is a ridiculously easy argument to make but you'd rather do whatever this is, dont know why you keep ignoring that.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I love retroactively taking credit away because we don't like him now. Classic strategy, we don't like you so everything you do sucks.

Carlyle can be both really good then and also really wrong now. I don't even like him and want him out, but this stuff is such nonsense.

I think he had the same coaching flaws then as he does now, but simply had far better top end players (especially on D), and benefitted when he had a GM go got him the players who fit his system instead of giving him parts and saying “use them” - he told Selanne to play a system that didn’t suit him but Selanne just ignored him. As soon as BM stopped doing that, he started struggling.

People have been saying since about 2008 that any of a half dozen coaches could easily have taken that ‘07 team to the Cup, that’s not even remotely a new sentiment. Outside of that year, what top coach has he ever actually outcoached? That should be part of considering him “top coach”, no?