2018-19 Roster Speculation Pt. 3: Started from the bottom now we're here

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Jim Bob

RIP RJ
Feb 27, 2002
58,814
39,845
Rochester, NY
The most I pay McCabe is 2.5 Mill on a 2-3 year deal. He is not a Core Piece IMO and will be replaceable in years to come. This is where we need to be stingy with our cap dollars and not overpay tweener type players (borderline top 4 d / top 6 fwd).

My guess is that McCabe goes to arbitration if that is the offer.
 

CatsforReinhart

Registered User
Jul 27, 2014
7,315
1,623
Frankfurt
Myers is a UFA at the end of the year. Any interest in bringing him back? Always rumored to be on the trade block and wont resign due to Winnipeg's RFA and needing cap space.

I am not one for retreading sabres players but Always had a soft spot for Myers.

Its also getting to be a problem trying to find a top 4 defender. That being said he is also going to be on the downside of his career at the end of his contract.
 

Reddawg

We're all mad here
Sponsor
Mar 22, 2007
9,282
5,091
Rochester, NY
I know I'm not interested in bringing Myers back, personally. All I remember about him at this point is the constant falling down. I don't watch anywhere near enough Winnipeg games to know if he's a good defender for them or not. His stats this year are pretty terribad.
 

sabrebuild

Registered User
Apr 21, 2014
10,517
2,770
Pittsburgh
Reinhart is a tough player to gauge. Scores a lot from in front of the net. Tips etc

But the way he is good is with his puck smarts, Flyers game not withstanding.

Usually makes smart plays with the puck. Makes quick passes. Also, I've noticed a definite improvement in his skating which is convincing me he's a waste on the Eichel line.

Nothing tangible in his game makes you say wow. It's the intangible part of his game that may do that for you.

The good thing is that he appears to be improving

This got off the rails halfway thru, warning to all.


The only thing tough to gauge with him, is how odd it is that people get hung up on speed and dangles.

Just take his stats and transfer them to anyone that hasn’t had a crazy campaign against him for years at this point, and only the most irrational fan would be unhappy with him, let alone want to move him.

No, we didn’t get lucky enough to get a Malkin or a Laine at 2 overall on both picks. But that stuff hardly ever happens and the 2nd or 3rd overall picks are littered with good but not elite players.

Consider this, at the same ages, 22 year old Vanek, in a couple minutes less of average ice time to be fair, only scored 25 goals and 23 assists for 48 points. On a very good Sabres team in a high scoring year. Reinhart had, 25,25-50 on a last place team. As a non goal scorer. The following year was when Vanek blows up on the President’s Trophy year. Goes for 84. Reinhart’s on pace for an 18 point jump in production, on a middling team, without a particular looking good yet, by his own ppg standard of last year’s second half.

None of this long winded rant is towards you, I generally agree he scores in the dirty areas and puts the puck into positive space more than most.

What I would add, is that for a bad athlete, weak skater, muffin shot, soft on his skates bum like him, he gets a solid 10-15 assists a year that are tap in, wtf just happened easy goals.

Just like scoring 20+ goals from inside 10 feet of the cage, those don’t just happen.

I would love to know what the long term ask was from Reinhart. Ups and downs aside of this season, with a proven track record of being a 50 point player as a physically underdeveloped elc player, I have to think Reinhart’s side wanted like 7 a year for 5 or 6. At that number I could see wanting to defer to Toronto and let them set the market with Nylander. That still is going to hurt because Toronto had to get him signed long term both to maintain a contending championship team a possibility, as a trade asset and to lock in his value before his numbers got any better. But if Reinhart wants 7.5 for 8 or something nuts ok.

But if it was 6 or less, I’m going to have some hard questions about what the plan was.

First, what does winning that bridge deal look like? Reinhart stabilizing as a 25 goal scorer and no more? What is the going rate for a 25 goal scoring, two way winger with 2 rfa years left in 2020? 5+? Was the 2 years of a couple million off the cap worth it? Did anybody legitimately believe he could regress and be worse?

Anywho, it makes me really curious how much did Reinhart want?
 

Gordo21

Registered User
Feb 9, 2017
978
193
I definitely like the bridge deal on Reinhart.

And sure, why would I think your response was a rant on me when I was generally positive about him.

To me, he seems like an improved player, which is encouraging to me.

I do think for the casual fan however, that he is somewhat hard to gauge.
 

Aavvaa

Registered User
Jul 2, 2018
211
172
This got off the rails halfway thru, warning to all.


The only thing tough to gauge with him, is how odd it is that people get hung up on speed and dangles.

Just take his stats and transfer them to anyone that hasn’t had a crazy campaign against him for years at this point, and only the most irrational fan would be unhappy with him, let alone want to move him.

No, we didn’t get lucky enough to get a Malkin or a Laine at 2 overall on both picks. But that stuff hardly ever happens and the 2nd or 3rd overall picks are littered with good but not elite players.

Consider this, at the same ages, 22 year old Vanek, in a couple minutes less of average ice time to be fair, only scored 25 goals and 23 assists for 48 points. On a very good Sabres team in a high scoring year. Reinhart had, 25,25-50 on a last place team. As a non goal scorer. The following year was when Vanek blows up on the President’s Trophy year. Goes for 84. Reinhart’s on pace for an 18 point jump in production, on a middling team, without a particular looking good yet, by his own ppg standard of last year’s second half.

None of this long winded rant is towards you, I generally agree he scores in the dirty areas and puts the puck into positive space more than most.

What I would add, is that for a bad athlete, weak skater, muffin shot, soft on his skates bum like him, he gets a solid 10-15 assists a year that are tap in, wtf just happened easy goals.

Just like scoring 20+ goals from inside 10 feet of the cage, those don’t just happen.

I would love to know what the long term ask was from Reinhart. Ups and downs aside of this season, with a proven track record of being a 50 point player as a physically underdeveloped elc player, I have to think Reinhart’s side wanted like 7 a year for 5 or 6. At that number I could see wanting to defer to Toronto and let them set the market with Nylander. That still is going to hurt because Toronto had to get him signed long term both to maintain a contending championship team a possibility, as a trade asset and to lock in his value before his numbers got any better. But if Reinhart wants 7.5 for 8 or something nuts ok.

But if it was 6 or less, I’m going to have some hard questions about what the plan was.

First, what does winning that bridge deal look like? Reinhart stabilizing as a 25 goal scorer and no more? What is the going rate for a 25 goal scoring, two way winger with 2 rfa years left in 2020? 5+? Was the 2 years of a couple million off the cap worth it? Did anybody legitimately believe he could regress and be worse?

Anywho, it makes me really curious how much did Reinhart want?

One would imagine this is why they went with the bridge, yeah it kicks the can down the road an bites us in the ass if Reinhart becomes a 70-80 point player, as his ask is going to be right up there with what Skinner is gonna get, but if he wanted over 7 on a long term deal right now, I can understand the decision to settle on a bridge.
 

1972

"Craigs on it"
Apr 9, 2012
14,426
3,147
Canada
As fans we worry way to much about the cap and what dollars the top players make.

If Sam is a 75 point player and makes 7.5 vs 6 it’s doesnt matter at the end of the day...giving the Kyle Okposo or Matt Moulsons 5 or 6 million per is what hurts you, not paying the Dahlins, Eichels or Reinharts of the world.
 

sabrebuild

Registered User
Apr 21, 2014
10,517
2,770
Pittsburgh
As fans we worry way to much about the cap and what dollars the top players make.

If Sam is a 75 point player and makes 7.5 vs 6 it’s doesnt matter at the end of the day...giving the Kyle Okposo or Matt Moulsons 5 or 6 million per is what hurts you, not paying the Dahlins, Eichels or Reinharts of the world.

That’s not how math works. It all matters. Starting next year the Maple Leafs are going to be very concerned about how much space they have, whether it’s overpaying Marleau or Zaitsev by a million or so each, or Jedi mind tricking Marner into a great deal.

I understand your point is that overpaying stars is more acceptable than overpaying a bum.

But in a cap world that thinking doesn’t work. That’s how Chicago falls apart. I can promise you there is a huge real world matter if Marner drops 90 points and gets a long term deal for 8.5 or 10 a year.

That money really matters, because eventually a contending team needs to cut down to a lot of high quality players that cost money. Winnipeg for example doesn’t have any really bad deals and they are going to and have already had to dump some good players.

Pittsburgh gave us Sheary and Hunwick for cap relief, because 3 million bucks was too much for them to spend on a 20 goal winger.

If we worry too much about the cap, then what’s the point of opining about whether Botts has done good or bad? We might as well say nothing at all.

And I can guarantee you, Botts would not agree with that theory since he just took a negotiation into training camp to get a low cap hit or not being able to agree over a wide range.

I would just like to know what the numbers were to help decide if that was a sensible decision or not.
 
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1972

"Craigs on it"
Apr 9, 2012
14,426
3,147
Canada
I’m never gonna lose sleep as a fan by overpaying a star played by a percent or two, sure it all matters. But, it’s not someone I am going to stress over. Limit the mistakes of over paying role players. That’s where the cap kills you.
 

sabrebuild

Registered User
Apr 21, 2014
10,517
2,770
Pittsburgh
I’m never gonna lose sleep as a fan by overpaying a star played by a percent or two, sure it all matters. But, it’s not someone I am going to stress over. Limit the mistakes of over paying role players. That’s where the cap kills you.

If signing Okposos or Moulsons is something your team is credibly considering, your team is not good enough to need to worry about the cap.
 

Djp

Registered User
Jul 28, 2012
24,672
6,029
Alexandria, VA
The most I pay McCabe is 2.5 Mill on a 2-3 year deal. He is not a Core Piece IMO and will be replaceable in years to come. This is where we need to be stingy with our cap dollars and not overpay tweener type players (borderline top 4 d / top 6 fwd).


You need a vet bridge to the younger group.

McCabe has 2 more team control years left.

I can se him signed for 4 yrs at 3,5M. He is a 4 Dman

Looking ahead at the D you have a Pilut, Rusto, Dahlin protected in an expansion draft.
Scandella abd Bogi and Nelson will be UFAs who can be rep,aced with the youth in their system

In left D McCabe can be a bridge pkayer fir use as replacements.4 years who woukd then be replaced by Samuelson.

I can also see them acquiring another D who would go till 22 or 23 when what Dnen they draft the next two years they would. To fill this could be from s trade for a p,Ayer with 4 yrs left or they could look at resigning scandella or bogo to a 2-3 yr extension st s lower cap hit of around 4-4.5.

They could move Scandella/Bogo this summer for a D who has 2-3 yrs left vs 1 who is similar but the other team has younger players emerging who want higher contracts in 20.
 

Aavvaa

Registered User
Jul 2, 2018
211
172
Any interest in Ferland? UFA at the end of the year, probably doesn't cost too much and we could try to pry him out of Carolina if they decide to sell / he doesn't show any indication of re-signing.
 

DapperCam

Registered User
Jul 9, 2006
6,406
3,796
Middle 6 needs something. They stink on ice. Especially whatever line Sobotka is on.
 

Gabrielor

Registered User
Jun 28, 2011
14,059
15,057
Buffalo, NY
Middle 6 needs something. They stink on ice. Especially whatever line Sobotka is on.

Line 3 is a disaster.

Line 2 gets chances, but few and far between. Mittelstadt is showing his youth, Sheary is a passenger, and Okposo is a statue.

Line 4 is basically Line 2. Line 1 is Line 1. We need to find a way to win like this until Phil wakes up and/or Rochester calls happen.
 

Djp

Registered User
Jul 28, 2012
24,672
6,029
Alexandria, VA
Line 3 is a disaster.

Line 2 gets chances, but few and far between. Mittelstadt is showing his youth, Sheary is a passenger, and Okposo is a statue.

Line 4 is basically Line 2. Line 1 is Line 1. We need to find a way to win like this until Phil wakes up and/or Rochester calls happen.


They need to go with

Skinner-Eichel-Poms
Sheary-Mitts-Reinhart
ERod-Larsson-Girgs
Thompson-Sobotka-Okposo

When Berglund is healthy he is with Larsson, ERod centers TKO, and Sobotka sits
 

toomuchsauce

Registered User
Jan 7, 2015
2,697
1,709
Okposo is an anchor again.

Ridiculous. He's not lighting it up, but he's got 15 points and a 49% CF, which, relative to his teammates, is okay. He's a useful NHL player. If he's somewhat overpaid, so be it. The contract is what it is.

I mean, do you actually think that Okposo is a problem with this team? I guess I just don't understand why anyone would single him out, of all people (wait, hold on, maybe I do). This team has two forwards who step onto the ice every day and get f***ing crushed - f***ING CRUSHED - every game - EVERY GAME, without fail - and who have 11 points combined. Okposo isn't one of them. Take a look at those guys. Talk shit about them being "anchors."
 

Royal Thunder

Frolunda Mode
Feb 21, 2012
4,424
3,469
Messing with some new line combos to try to spread out the scoring a bit. I want to try Berglund on Jack's RW but unfortunately it's the only place that Pominville seems able to provide any value.

Skinner-Eichel-Pominville
Mittlestadt-Berglund-Reinhart
Sheary-Larsson-Okposo
Girgensons-Sobotka-ERod
 
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