2018-19 Roster Speculation Pt. 3: Started from the bottom now we're here

[struckbyaparkedcar]

If Brassard's value is Sobotka and a pick, Brassard must suck

Nah, he's Perron all over again. Not a bad player, but he's a guy who touches to and offensive opportunities, and it's hard to ration those effectively with Crosby, Malkin and Kessel dominating things. They hoped he could replace Bonino as the two-way guy with chemistry with Phil, but Kessel is a notoriously prickly linemate and Brassard couldn't play off-puck.

 

[truthbluth]

Would anybody here be interested in a trade where Noah Juulsen and Guhle are the primary pieces? Obviously we’d add.

 

[joshjull]

Asking someone with his skillset to drive a depth scoring line from the center position remains bad. A player like that needs to either learn how to translate their offense, or play with a higher quality of linemate so the entire unit's success doesn't ebb and flow with his progression.

Casey has been ahead of where I projected him defensively based on age and pedigree, but that development hasn't done much for the team's bottom line because it's occurred at the expense of his offense. And we still need to find the roles and players he produces best with in order to know how he fits into the big picture.

I’d say maybe the coach should leave him be to develop chemistry with linemates. He had something going with Sheary/Okposo. Let it grow.

 

[Yatzhee]

If they believe in themselves then they should be able to get there with the talent they have. If they are tired of a losing culture than its on them to change it and play better than they did last night. At some point the current players are going to have to realize change starts with them and they cant keep relying on someone else to bring it from outside the organization.

While this is all true, hockey is a team sport, and in today's NHL it takes more than 1 scoring line to get it done, no matter how talented.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Agree that things are better for deployment when B/L/G are together. Larsson’s line consistently gets the toughest deployments and is most effective with Berglund/Girgs on his wings.

I’d also add putting Sam on the “top defensive line” as a wing has helped balance things as well. I’m arguing for sliding him to center but on wing its a big help as well.

If Sam isn’t going to play center on that line and there is no reason to believe he will. I’d prefer Sobotka in that role. He’s meh there but to me Erod is meh -1 in that role. Plus I think Erod should be battling with Thompson to get in the lineup and add Wilson to that battle when he returns.

I don't think you should consider Sam's line the "top defensive unit." This team's optimal performance has been with Reinhart keying more of a second scoring line and Casey getting in where he fits in.

I also don't think we have the wings to shift Reinhart to center, especially if Sobotka is one of those options. Sam has been excellent at finding soft spots behind the coverage in transition, and I don't think that Vlad does those same things even with 23 improving the quality of service. His defense from the wing has been good enough to compensate for iffy center play, and his offense definitely benefits from being further up in the play, so idk if that trade-off is worth it until the team trades for a Saad, Niederriter, Krieder, Stone, Tarasenko, etc.

Both Sobotka and Erod are 60% goals players with Sam, as is Thompson. I think ERod is clearly the best of that group, but either way, there's your rotation.

 

[joshjull]

I don't think you should consider Sam's line the "top defensive unit." This team's optimal performance has been with Reinhart keying more of a second scoring line and Casey getting in where he fits in.

I also don't think we have the wings to shift Reinhart to center, especially if Sobotka is one of those options. Sam has been excellent at finding soft spots behind the coverage in transition, and I don't think that Vlad does those same things even with 23 improving the quality of service. His defense from the wing has been good enough to compensate for iffy center play, and his offense definitely benefits from being further up in the play, so idk if that trade-off is worth it until the team trades for a Saad, Niederriter, Krieder, Stone, Tarasenko, etc.

Both Sobotka and Erod are 60% goals players with Sam, as is Thompson. I think ERod is clearly the best of that group, but either way, there's your rotation.

Sobtoka/Erod/Sam as a line had a OZS% of 19% (44% with just Vlad and 19% with just Erod). Thats pretty defensively skewed usage. They may have provided some secondary scoring but they were not doing it being used as our secondary offensive line. To put it another way, they were providing it from a line where its a bonus not an expectation, at least in terms of usage.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

It is relevant .... You're not getting Toffoli cheap like you're indicating.

Be prepared to give up one of the 1sts if you want Toffoli

So you think Guhle is trash? Wow, since you call him cheap. Thats sad. He is a top 4 prospect you must think he wont even make the NHL since you call him cheap.

See its easy to do.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Charlie Coyle available?
Rumor: - Charlie Coyle being dangled (OTT, MTL, BOS interested)

 

[dotcommunism]

So you think Guhle is trash? Wow, since you call him cheap. Thats sad. He is a top 4 prospect you must think he wont even make the NHL since you call him cheap.

See its easy to do.

It's also easy to respond to what someone is actually saying instead of putting words in their mouth.

 

[Beerz]

So you think Guhle is trash? Wow, since you call him cheap. Thats sad. He is a top 4 prospect you must think he wont even make the NHL since you call him cheap.

See its easy to do.

No. I said he wouldnt get you that player. And you'd need to add significantly to Guhle to get him. That doesn't mean Guhle is trash. It means Guhle is a prospect with limited value because he is not a blue chip prospect

 

[slip]

No. I said he wouldnt get you that player. And you'd need to add significantly to Guhle to get him. That doesn't mean Guhle is trash. It means Guhle is a prospect with limited value because he is not a blue chip prospect

So if I'm interpreting you correctly, what you're saying in Guhle isn't worth a bag of pucks and should be launched into the sun immediately.

 

[Jim Bob]

So if I'm interpreting you correctly, what you're saying in Guhle isn't worth a bag of pucks and should be launched into the sun immediately.

No, it's that Guhle is more valuable as a prospect you keep and develop as he has limited trade value currently since he isn't a high pick and he has struggled this season at the AHL level.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

No. I said he wouldnt get you that player. And you'd need to add significantly to Guhle to get him. That doesn't mean Guhle is trash. It means Guhle is a prospect with limited value because he is not a blue chip prospect

Thats not what you said. You said Toffoli wouldn't come cheap in regards to trading him for Guhle. Don't change what you said if you want to attack my posts. So you called Guhle cheap. He is a projected top 4 but apparently you think he is garbage.

You can't have it both ways go after posts but then defend yours and change wording so you don't sound so bad. Would you like me to quote what you said or you agree you are misquoting yourself? Its only one page back I am sure you know what I am talking about.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

So if I'm interpreting you correctly, what you're saying in Guhle isn't worth a bag of pucks and should be launched into the sun immediately.

Not to mention Toffoli is not worthy of a blue chip prospect. Now Beers wants to trade away a blue chip prospect for a guy who has 5 goals in 30 games. Yikes....So Skinner wasn't worth a blue chip prospect but you would trade away a blue chip prospect for Toffoli?

 

[dotcommunism]

Skinner was a pending free agent with no-trade protection, and was traded by arguably one of the worst GMs in NHL history. It's not really a good basis for comparison.

 

[GellMann]

Not to mention Toffoli is not worthy of a blue chip prospect. Now Beers wants to trade away a blue chip prospect for a guy who has 5 goals in 30 games. Yikes....So Skinner wasn't worth a blue chip prospect but you would trade away a blue chip prospect for Toffoli?

What on earth is your definition of blue chip prospect?

 

[CatsforReinhart]

What on earth is your definition of blue chip prospect?

Top 15 prospect

1-15 is blue Chip

15-40 is A

40-100 is b

Draisaitl and Werenski were blue chip. If Beers is trading them away for Toffoli then fire him as GM. Nylander is not a blue chip prospect.

 

[Snippit]

Thats not what you said. You said Toffoli wouldn't come cheap in regards to trading him for Guhle. Don't change what you said if you want to attack my posts. So you called Guhle cheap. He is a projected top 4 but apparently you think he is garbage.

You can't have it both ways go after posts but then defend yours and change wording so you don't sound so bad. Would you like me to quote what you said or you agree you are misquoting yourself? Its only one page back I am sure you know what I am talking about.

Guhle at this point is not a projected top 4.

Toffoli is a proven top 6 winger.

They're not even remotely close in value.

 

[Vito_81]

Charlie Coyle available?
Rumor: - Charlie Coyle being dangled (OTT, MTL, BOS interested)

Would love to land him.

 

[sabremike]

If we can get something good for the Blues pick then absolutely do it because when they clinch bottom 10 status the value of that pick is going to fall worse than Christmas Trees on December 26th.

 

[Jim Bob]

If we can get something good for the Blues pick then absolutely do it because when they clinch bottom 10 status the value of that pick is going to fall worse than Christmas Trees on December 26th.

I would rather that they play the long game and hold onto that pick and use it to fill the prospect pipeline.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

It's also easy to respond to what someone is actually saying instead of putting words in their mouth.

I never but words in his mouth. I said Guhle for Toffoli and he said Guhle wont come cheap.

So what does that make Guhle? Sorry for assuming cheap means the player is not good. What is your definition of cheap?

 

[Gabrielor]

Right now, I'm trading our first way before the Blues 1st (I'm not trading either).

 

[GellMann]

Top 15 prospect

1-15 is blue Chip

15-40 is A

40-100 is b

Draisaitl and Werenski were blue chip. If Beers is trading them away for Toffoli then fire him as GM. Nylander is not a blue chip prospect.

Maybe I'm misreading, but it sounds like you're calling Guhle a blue chip prospect.

Edit: I think I see where I'm misreading. Ignore me.

 

[Beerz]

Thats not what you said. You said Toffoli wouldn't come cheap in regards to trading him for Guhle. Don't change what you said if you want to attack my posts. So you called Guhle cheap. He is a projected top 4 but apparently you think he is garbage.

You can't have it both ways go after posts but then defend yours and change wording so you don't sound so bad. Would you like me to quote what you said or you agree you are misquoting yourself? Its only one page back I am sure you know what I am talking about.

You're pretty much impossible to have a intellectually honest conversation with.

Because I said Toffoli won't come cheap that must mean I think Guhle is trash?

No. It means Toffoli value is considerably higher because he is a proven top 6 winger... where as Guhle is a question mark. IF Guhle were a blue chip prospect the risk would be lower for the team acquring him. He's not trash...he's just not anything special either.

But if you don't believe me... Go take your nifty proposal to main boards and get laughed at.