2018-19 Roster Speculation Pt. 3: Started from the bottom now we're here

[Yatzhee]

The Sabres have proved early on this season they can hang with the leagues best.
Stay the course is the current mantra being spoken. But, with a very real possible playoff appearance growing as each day passes, whispers amongst conversations around the water coolers and at after dinner lounging are starting to grow about the Sabres season.

In particular, what can the Sabres do in season, move wise, that will improve their secondary scoring woes or, further elevate the team long term in the finishing dept.
Yes, at work today, and when I arrived home this afternoon, conversations abound about..........possible trades!

All eyes are now on Jason Botterill and his pipeline team of managers. The primary question everyone was asking at both home and abroad was does Botterill see what is unfolding as a mere part of a process, or does he view it as something that he can actively help improve while not giving up the farm?

Interesting to see his strategy unfold as the season progresses.

 

[sabrebuild]

But that's one player swap. What's the change from Okposo to Mitts/ERod, or any other player swap we've made? And a team averaging less than three shot attempts per two minute power play, with one player difference being one shot attempt every two power plays, I feel like "fixing that stat" is much more a coaching/puck movement thing than "alright let's swap these players around to maximize raw shot attempts per sixty," like I feel like we've lost a hockey plot somewhere in here

To drag you back into hockey plot land, I think Dahlin has a special ability to use and create space. So I think he helps to put pressure on the other teams form, much more so than your typical switch. Risto is a good passer on the pp and is solid at getting his shot thru. Dahlin is excellent at moving the puck quickly, gets his shot thru, if not strongly, and can dangle thru a sloppy pker. He also personally moves better in space than Risto, and if I’m being honest he might be the best guy on the team at looking for and exploiting gaps in coverage.

Forgetting the fancy stats, Dahlin is just a more fluid and unpredictable opponent to put pkers off balance, and being off just a little on the pk is deadly.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

But that's one player swap. What's the change from Okposo to Mitts/ERod, or any other player swap we've made? And a team averaging less than three shot attempts per two minute power play, with one player difference being one shot attempt every two power plays, I feel like "fixing that stat" is much more a coaching/puck movement thing than "alright let's swap these players around to maximize raw shot attempts per sixty," like I feel like we've lost a hockey plot somewhere in here

To be clear, I always want Dahlin on the ice, especially over Risto. But this is about the least convincing case you could make haha

You're missing some context here. I already said that Risto has been notably worse on the power play vs the past couple of seasons because his role has changed. He needs to be more of a pure QB instead of that second shooting threat. Without a replacement for O'Reilly's playmaking, the other 3 spots need to do more to move the puck, which is why Dahlin's skating and passing have contributed more to-date than Risto's shot. I was only bringing up the underlying stuff because just looking at goals rarely tells the whole story, and then provided some context for that production.

I actually like Chain's idea of going back to 2D but playing Risto over Okposo on the right of the umbrella. The other thing we've gotten away from is resetting to Reinhart behind the goal line, and generally playing pucks against the grain and into space to keep OZ possession. If we're not going to replace 90's role, we should probably run more things through Sam behind the net as the core setup too.

Edit - while Risto is probably sub-optimal in the current setup due to the above, the real killer has been the 55/21 tandem. Each has functioned away from the other, but they're a nightmare combined. Which makes sense considering they both lack touch and take bad shots, and the team no longer has a playmaker to set up their end of the ice.

 

[Fezzy126]

You're missing some context here. I already said that Risto has been notably worse on the power play vs the past couple of seasons because his role has changed. He needs to be more of a pure QB instead of that second shooting threat. Without a replacement for O'Reilly's playmaking, the other 3 spots need to do more to move the puck, which is why Dahlin's skating and passing have contributed more to-date than Risto's shot. I was only bringing up the underlying stuff because just looking at goals rarely tells the whole story, and then provided some context for that production.

I actually like Chain's idea of going back to 2D but playing Risto over Okposo on the right of the umbrella. The other thing we've gotten away from is resetting to Reinhart behind the goal line, and generally playing pucks against the grain and into space to keep OZ possession. If we're not going to replace 90's role, we should probably run more things through Sam behind the net as the core setup too.

Edit - while Risto is probably sub-optimal in the current setup due to the above, the real killer has been the 55/21 tandem. Each has functioned away from the other, but they're a nightmare combined. Which makes sense considering they both lack touch and take bad shots, and the team no longer has a playmaker to set up their end of the ice.

One thing they changed that I actually really liked was putting jack on his strong side and tage in the left half wall sweet spot. Of course we didn't see positive results, but I actually really liked that setup conceptually, it seems to present a number of shot options

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

One thing they changed that I actually really liked was putting jack on his strong side and tage in the left half wall sweet spot. Of course we didn't see positive results, but I actually really liked that setup conceptually, it seems to present a number of shot options

It definitely makes sense in theory but I question how functional Thompson's shot is. Kid's got a cannon, but whether he has the IQ to find the space for it is a whole 'nother question.

His footspeed is also problematic if Risto keeps manning the point on PP1, because you want Eichel creeping forward, creating space for the cross-ice pass. That leaves your two slowest skaters as the safety net.

 

[darcyRegier]

Top 9 needs to be shuffled up a bit. I would love to see Tage - Mitts - Reinhart get a couple games together

 

[1972]

Would you trade Guhle for Milano?

 

[Djp]

Does anyone remember what the forward lines were like in 2095-06. I know lines shuffled but ball park what was the common lineup
.

 

[1972]

Does anyone remember what the forward lines were like in 2095-06. I know lines shuffled but ball park what was the common lineup
.

Hecht - Briere - Pominville
Kotalik - Drury - Griere
Vanek - Roy - Afinogenov
Pyatt - Gaustad - Connolly

Lydman - Tallinder
McKee - Campbell
Kalinin - Nummunen

 

[dortt]

Hecht - Briere - Pominville
Kotalik - Drury - Griere
Vanek - Roy - Afinogenov
Pyatt - Gaustad - Connolly

Lydman - Tallinder
McKee - Campbell
Kalinin - Nummunen

Wasn't Dumont on the first line in 2005-2006?

Connolly also was not the 4th line center

 

[Samsonite23]

Top 9 needs to be shuffled up a bit. I would love to see Tage - Mitts - Reinhart get a couple games together

I think Reinhart has been a noticeably worse net front this year on the PP.

I’d like to see him in a on the half wall and see what happens. I think he could set up Eichel or Thompson there all day. Backstrom to Ovi esque.

 

[toomuchsauce]

Would you trade Guhle for Milano?

No. Too much of a question mark. The organization needs more skilled forwards, yes - but I still view Guhle as a guy who can be a useful NHL player for a long time with his combination of size and skating. He's not going to score much in the NHL, which is fine, because you won't have to pay him much (see, e.g., fellow Sherwood Park, Alberta native Mark Pysyk). The Sabres are going to desperately need guys who fit that description in the coming years.

Same thing with Borgen. He and Guhle are kind of the same type of prospect. They're most likely not going to become great NHL players, but they could both have solid, 10-year NHL careers. Cheap defensive depth will be invaluable very soon, and the Sabres pipeline is set up very nicely. I wouldn't trade any of them yet, unless it's a move that improves the NHL roster right now.

 

[1972]

Wasn't Dumont on the first line in 2005-2006?

Connolly also was not the 4th line center

Where the hell was connolly? Holy crap was that team ever stacked.

 

[Grinder81]

Wasn't Dumont on the first line in 2005-2006?

Connolly also was not the 4th line center

This forward group is more in line with 06-07.

Hecht-Briere-Dumont
Roy-Drury-Griere
Kotalik-Connolly-Afinogenov
?-Gaustad-Pomminville

 

[1972]

Scandella is an obvious target to try and move at the deadline or offseason depending on where we are at. Guhle is probably going to be as good as him right now, and Scandella still likely is valued highly based on his track record.

Dahlin - Ristolainen
Pilut - Bogosian
Guhle - Nelson

That left side is going to be set for a long time, Botterill is definitely using one of those high picks on a right D if one is available.

 

[Grinder81]

That was the playoff lineup in 06. Connolly was playing out of his mind.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Scandella is an obvious target to try and move at the deadline or offseason depending on where we are at. Guhle is probably going to be as good as him right now, and Scandella still likely is valued highly based on his track record.

Dahlin - Ristolainen
Pilut - Bogosian
Guhle - Nelson

That left side is going to be set for a long time, Botterill is definitely using one of those high picks on a right D if one is available.

I want to see guhle be better before we move him. Also, McCabe!

 

[1972]

I want to see guhle be better before we move him. Also, McCabe!

I forgot about McCabe. Wow that left side looks amazing moving forward. Scandella is definitely not getting another contract here.

 

[1972]

I value Guhle fairly decently, but he’s also a prospect I would be willing to part with for a young skilled playmaking forward or for Montour.

 

[Reddawg]

This forward group is more in line with 06-07.

Hecht-Briere-Dumont
Roy-Drury-Griere
Kotalik-Connolly-Afinogenov
?-Gaustad-Pomminville

Watched this video trying to figure out the lines from that era...and damn if it isn't getting a little dusty in here.



If not for McKee's staph infection at the worst possible time, I think we win the Cup that year. That team was so unbelievably good but you can't chop a defense up so badly they're having to ice Janik, Jillson and Paetsch in a Conference Final Game 7 and live to tell the tale. We were so dinged up and helpless on defense Paetsch played his second EVER NHL game in that Game 7.

We lost Numminen, Tallinder, Kalinin and McKee to injury...that's the cautionary tale against shipping out defensive depth when you don't have to. You never know when you're going to be desperate for a good player to slot in.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I forgot about McCabe. Wow that left side looks amazing moving forward. Scandella is definitely not getting another contract here.

I always thought of Scandella as a much needed stop-gap, but he's a bottom pairing guy at this point of his career without being a better/faster skater. I'd still be surprised if Botterill trades him with another season and a half left on his contract though.

 

[Vito_81]

This forward group is more in line with 06-07.

Hecht-Briere-Dumont
Roy-Drury-Griere
Kotalik-Connolly-Afinogenov
?-Gaustad-Pomminville

Vanek was on the 05-06 team too. Lindy didnt use him much in the playoffs though

 

[LetsDoughBuffalo]

This forward group is more in line with 06-07.

Hecht-Briere-Dumont
Roy-Drury-Grier
Kotalik-Connolly-Afinogenov
?-Gaustad-Pomminville

@Djp

For what it's worth, @Grinder81 's version is way more accurate to the 05-06 playoff run.

The 4th line guy was either Thomas Vanek, Taylor Pyatt, Adam Mair or Jiri Novotny (depending on injuries & lineup changes). I think it was Vanek who got the first opportunity, but I can't remember specifically.

There were a couple injuries up front that threw things off that year in the playoffs too. I remember Hecht missing some time, and Connolly was out from the 2nd Ottawa game onward. Mair started the playoffs injured as well, and only got back in for a few games.

As for the legend of the defensemen injuries - Kalinin, Numminen, Tallinder, and McKee all went down (in that order?)

The replacements came in the order of - Fitzpatrick, Jillson, Janik, and Paetsch (I think)

This was the first playoff run that I can legitimately really vividly remember. I was just living and breathing Sabres hockey during that stretch. So much fun... so much heartbreak...

 

[Fezzy126]

Watched this video trying to figure out the lines from that era...and damn if it isn't getting a little dusty in here.



If not for McKee's staph infection at the worst possible time, I think we win the Cup that year. That team was so unbelievably good but you can't chop a defense up so badly they're having to ice Janik, Jillson and Paetsch in a Conference Final Game 7 and live to tell the tale. We were so dinged up and helpless on defense Paetsch played his second EVER NHL game in that Game 7.

We lost Numminen, Tallinder, Kalinin and McKee to injury...that's the cautionary tale against shipping out defensive depth when you don't have to. You never know when you're going to be desperate for a good player to slot in.

I still maintain that losing Connolly was the single biggest reason we didn't win the cup that year, starting from the 2nd half of that season up to when he got hurt, he was one the best hockey players I had ever seen. Our ability to dominate possession and score completely dried up after he got hurt.

If I could go back in history a la 12 Monkeys style I would eliminate Peter Schaefer from existence.

 

[Hasekperreault23]

Wh

Scandella is an obvious target to try and move at the deadline or offseason depending on where we are at. Guhle is probably going to be as good as him right now, and Scandella still likely is valued highly based on his track record.

Dahlin - Ristolainen
Pilut - Bogosian
Guhle - Nelson

That left side is going to be set for a long time, Botterill is definitely using one of those high picks on a right D if one is available.

Where is mcCabe and beauleau?