Speculation: 2017-18 Roster Discussion - Part 2

[Tampacuseforever]

P

Killorn. Stamkos. Callahan
Palat. Point. Kucherov
Names Gourde Conacher
Paquette Dumont Bournival

Erne Brown

Hedman Brodin
Stralman Sergachev
Koekkoek Coburn

Garrison Witkowski Sustr

 

[Tampacuseforever]

johnson gonna be here a long time hope you all get used to that idea cause its written by me so it will be haha

just being a smart aaaaadddd lol

I actually think your right ( just seems to be a luxury we can't afford with Point being a replacement )

 

[FDfranklin]

Killorn. Stamkos. Callahan
Palat. Point. Kucherov
Names Gourde Conacher
Paquette Dumont Bournival

Erne Brown

Hedman Brodin
Stralman Sergachev
Koekkoek Coburn

Garrison Witkowski Sustr

Stamkos won't break 50 points on that line.

That D is stacked but man that forward group looks bad on paper.

 

[Leonardo87]

and yes todd i think callahan is done but we can get plug in for his six million lol
i like how we look myself

I am curious why you think he is done? He was held back, could have played. Heck a Callahan with one hip was still more productive than that current bottom 6. They did know it was scar tissue and some kind of stitch on a bone causing the issue till later. By then, the season was over, but would have returned if they made the playoffs. How effective will he be? Well likely better than most of that bottom 6. If he fully recovers and returns even close to his 1st season here, well he'll return to that middle six role. You need to give him a chance to recover, and right now think he is closer to being back to form than Stamkos. Plus they said his rehab is going very well.

Stamkos won't break 50 points on that line.

He broke 70 points, and 40 goals playing mostly with Callahan and Killorn. Also to add, with Drouin and Filppula now gone. That line is a strong possibility. That line has had some success in the past, and can see Cooper going back to it, if the Top 6 cools off a little.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

Scoring depth was already an issue, but with both Drouin and Johnson gone, we'd be in big, big trouble. At some point we'll have to trust the kids on defense and live with it. We just can't afford weakening our scoring depth any further.

 

[Tampacuseforever]

Scoring depth was already an issue, but with both Drouin and Johnson gone, we'd be in big, big trouble. At some point we'll have to trust the kids on defense and live with it. We just can't afford weakening our scoring depth any further.

Not sure I agree ? Stamkos and Kucherov can each pot 40 and the third line would be the best offensive line we have had in a long time. We also have Howden Cirelli Stephens etc all developing in the AHL ready for prime time by December. See this as a deeper forward unit than many very successful teams. The key to a good offence is defencemen that can move the puck and help the offence. Let's not forget how we finished last year and how far Point improved offensively as the season wore on.

 

[Major4Boarding]

Don't usually armchair GM but I decided to check out cap friendly.

According to them we have $17.5 mil left + an extra 2 mil if the cap goes up to 75.

So $19.5 mil to sign:

Johnson
Palat
Sustr(plz no)
Back up goalie
Koekkoek
Dumont
Dotchin

and a bunch of other AHL guys that are RFAs or UFAs.

Have to imagine at least 5 to both Palat and Johnson.

Someone has to come off the books to go after a top 4 D. Really hoping we can get rid of Killorn or Garrison.

Going off of Hose's roster above (which I agree is the most likely) and a $74.2M cap. League is allegedly supposed to announce the actual cap sometime today

Namestnikov(1.9375) - Stamkos(8.5) - Kucherov(4.766)
Palat(4.75) - Johnson(4.75) - Point (.687)
Killorn(4.45) - Gourde(.950) - Callahan(5.8)
Erne(.874) - Paquette (.813) - Brown(1.25)

Hedman(7.875) - Dotchin(.850)
Koekkoek(1.0 QO) - Stralman(4.5)
Coburn(3.7) - Sustr(1.95)

Vasy(3.5)
Budaj(.900)

Total - $ 65,860,834 which would include various bonuses and still carrying Carle's buyout

(Hoping) Garrison is selected by Vegas leaves roughly $8M to go after a top 4 D and add a little to the new contracts or cap hit in this scenario

 

[The Macho King]

Lol at Koekkoek in the top 4 and Sustr still on the roster at all. I'd want Sergachev in the lineup before KK.

 

[Major4Boarding]

Lol at Koekkoek in the top 4 and Sustr still on the roster at all. I'd want Sergachev in the lineup before KK.

Yeah, bad C&P on my part. You can swap Koekkoek and Coburn and Sustr with Witkowski and fill in whatever $5M-$6M top 4 D acquisition you'd like

I just don't see Sergachev on the roster past nine games next season, if at all. It'd be nice if I was wrong

 

[The Macho King]

Yeah, bad C&P on my part. You can swap Koekkoek and Coburn and Sustr with Witkowski if you'd like

I just don't see Sergachev on the roster past nine games next season, if at all. It'd be nice if I was wrong

There will be a #6 option out there that isn't Sustr. That experiment is over and I think we'd be wise to walk away from it. It's not that he's a bad #6 (I actually think he's fine in that role), it's just that the second an injury happens and he's asked to play more than that, we're boned.

Sergachev has played RD in the OHL. I'd put him at #6 in front of Sustr. Can't be worse defensively and if he has a partner like Coburn, he will be somewhat sheltered.

Also - looks like the cap is going to be $75m. That will give us ~20m before burying Condra and (maybe) Brown (looks like we'll be able to hide 1.1m each this year instead of 900k), so that gives us 21-2 million. We'll need 3 forwards (bottom 6), re-sign TJ and Palat (assume that eats 9-10m), and 2D (assume we bring up Dotchin and one of KK/Surge [Surge is now his nickname don't fight it]) so we'll need one D to be #6/7. Those will likely leave us with around 5-6m in cap space, not counting whatever we lose in the expansion draft.

We can make a good signing for 5-6m, and if we can move Garrison that's even better. As much as this trade worries me, it also opened up a *lot* of opportunities.

 

[Sky04]

Scoring depth was already an issue, but with both Drouin and Johnson gone, we'd be in big, big trouble. At some point we'll have to trust the kids on defense and live with it. We just can't afford weakening our scoring depth any further.

Absolutely, also you're not guaranteed that Kucherov and Stamkos play in top form every year, if Stamkos has another cold year like he did after his previous injuries then 35-40 goals or not he's highly ineffective.

We've already been through an era of 2 guys scoring 30-40 goals and 90+ points, how did that work out? We need scoring depth, people need to stop thinking Kucherov/Stamkos will bail us out. How are Seguin/Benn doing without help? Laine and Wheeler? Even Crosby and Malkin are useless without help from the bottom lines.

 

[Sky04]

There will be a #6 option out there that isn't Sustr. That experiment is over and I think we'd be wise to walk away from it. It's not that he's a bad #6 (I actually think he's fine in that role), it's just that the second an injury happens and he's asked to play more than that, we're boned.

Sergachev has played RD in the OHL. I'd put him at #6 in front of Sustr. Can't be worse defensively and if he has a partner like Coburn, he will be somewhat sheltered.

Also - looks like the cap is going to be $75m. That will give us ~20m before burying Condra and (maybe) Brown (looks like we'll be able to hide 1.1m each this year instead of 900k), so that gives us 21-2 million. We'll need 3 forwards (bottom 6), re-sign TJ and Palat (assume that eats 9-10m), and 2D (assume we bring up Dotchin and one of KK/Surge [Surge is now his nickname don't fight it]) so we'll need one D to be #6/7. Those will likely leave us with around 5-6m in cap space, not counting whatever we lose in the expansion draft.

We can make a good signing for 5-6m, and if we can move Garrison that's even better. As much as this trade worries me, it also opened up a *lot* of opportunities.

Wasn't the cap already confirmed staying the same?

 

[JFleegs]

Haha funny I was going to say his nickname better be Surge for now on..i agree with most everything you said

 

[The Macho King]

Wasn't the cap already confirmed staying the same?

No - it was dependent on the NHLPA voting on the escalator. Someone (LeBrun?) says the NHLPA is voting on a 75m cap (half the escalator, basically) and it seems to have support. Announcement will be later today most likely.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

Stamkos won't break 50 points on that line.

That D is stacked but man that forward group looks bad on paper.

He put up 72/43 on that exact line a couple years ago during the worst season of his life. Soooooo.....

 

[FDfranklin]

He put up 72/43 on that exact line a couple years ago durimg the worst season of his life. Soooooo.....

and Callahan has deteriorated and Killorn got paid and has been terrible...

 

[Flat Ronnie]

and Callahan has deteriorated and Killorn got paid and has been terrible...

So youre sticking by 50 points?

 

[FDfranklin]

So youre sticking by 50 points?

It's somewhat of an under exaggeration but if you put Stamkos coming off of a major injury with Callahan who is coming off a major injury and Killorn who is well.. Killorn.. He's not going to have that great of a season. Which is my opinion.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

It's somewhat of an under exaggeration but if you put Stamkos coming off of a major injury with Callahan who is coming off a major injury and Killorn who is well.. Killorn.. He's not going to have that great of a season. Which is my opinion.

Stamkos, at his WORST, with a mosh posh of average at best linemates put up 70/40 in a full season. 50/30 is rediculous.

For perspective, Kucherov in his BEST year so far put up about the same numbers with an equally average mosh posh of linemates.

 

[Stammertime91]

I don't know why you guys are keen on going after another defenseman. I don't think Sergachev is the answer right now but when you compare our defense to the Pens, it's pretty equal if Hedman repeats this season going forward. Where we lack skill is up front. Removing Drouin stripped us of a top 6 player with the snap of a finger because the only player we have capable of producing similar numbers is Point.

Right now I'd say we have 4 legitimate top 6 players with Stamkos, Kucherov, Johnson and Palat, then one on the verge in Point but we are missing another. Killorn is not that guy. He's an overpaid, albeit good one, 3rd liner. Same with Callahan. We really need to move on from Brown and Paquette. As much as I like them, they're about the easiest combination to defend against in the opposing team's zone. Their offensive instincts are so poor. I have no idea what happened to Paquette's hockey IQ but the last two years he's looked lost. Same goes with Brown, he gets a clear opening to the net and the shot hits the tesla coils. That bottom 6 needs some reshuffling and some work. A legit scoring winger needs to be brought in and I'd say stay put.

I know I griped about our defense last year but the Penguins are showing you don't have to have all stats back there to win...back to back.

 

[Sky04]

I don't know why you guys are keen on going after another defenseman. I don't think Sergachev is the answer right now but when you compare our defense to the Pens, it's pretty equal if Hedman repeats this season going forward. Where we lack skill is up front. Removing Drouin stripped us of a top 6 player with the snap of a finger because the only player we have capable of producing similar numbers is Point.

Right now I'd say we have 4 legitimate top 6 players with Stamkos, Kucherov, Johnson and Palat, then one on the verge in Point but we are missing another. Killorn is not that guy. He's an overpaid, albeit good one, 3rd liner. Same with Callahan. We really need to move on from Brown and Paquette. As much as I like them, they're about the easiest combination to defend against in the opposing team's zone. Their offensive instincts are so poor. I have no idea what happened to Paquette's hockey IQ but the last two years he's looked lost. Same goes with Brown, he gets a clear opening to the net and the shot hits the tesla coils. That bottom 6 needs some reshuffling and some work. A legit scoring winger needs to be brought in and I'd say stay put.

I know I griped about our defense last year but the Penguins are showing you don't have to have all stats back there to win...back to back.

Doesn't matter, we don't run a system even close to the Pengiuns so we can stack all the forwards we want upfront it won't matter under Cooper, we won't have the same type of aggressive forecheck or backcheck.

Cooper wants to have defenseman transitioning up the ice so to do that Yzerman needs to get him the guys to do so. I still don't think that's playing to our strengths but sure at least Cooper and Yzerman are on the same page. So you could easily see another defenseman added.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

Killorn. Stamkos. Callahan
Palat. Point. Kucherov
Names Gourde Conacher
Paquette Dumont Bournival

Erne Brown

Hedman Brodin
Stralman Sergachev
Koekkoek Coburn

Garrison Witkowski Sustr

Blech.

I don't really see Conacher ever making this roster full time again, and Dumont/Bournival are okay I guess. I'd rather give limited ice time to Erne or someone else. As for Brodin... I think its wishful thinking but my word would that iron out a LOT of issues.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

I don't know why you guys are keen on going after another defenseman. I don't think Sergachev is the answer right now but when you compare our defense to the Pens, it's pretty equal if Hedman repeats this season going forward. Where we lack skill is up front. Removing Drouin stripped us of a top 6 player with the snap of a finger because the only player we have capable of producing similar numbers is Point.

Right now I'd say we have 4 legitimate top 6 players with Stamkos, Kucherov, Johnson and Palat, then one on the verge in Point but we are missing another. Killorn is not that guy. He's an overpaid, albeit good one, 3rd liner. Same with Callahan. We really need to move on from Brown and Paquette. As much as I like them, they're about the easiest combination to defend against in the opposing team's zone. Their offensive instincts are so poor. I have no idea what happened to Paquette's hockey IQ but the last two years he's looked lost. Same goes with Brown, he gets a clear opening to the net and the shot hits the tesla coils. That bottom 6 needs some reshuffling and some work. A legit scoring winger needs to be brought in and I'd say stay put.

I know I griped about our defense last year but the Penguins are showing you don't have to have all stats back there to win...back to back.

I don't think IQ is Paquettes issue, he can just never ever be healthy.

Also I know hating Killorn is the new "in" thing but he produces in line with a second line winger compared to the rest of the league so i'll disagree there. I think the frustration stems from him being so hot and so cold at times, but at the end of the year the numbers are still there.
https://public.tableau.com/shared/HK327774Y?:display_count=yes

 

[LightningStrikes]

I don't think IQ is Paquettes issue, he can just never ever be healthy.

Also I know hating Killorn is the new "in" thing but he produces in line with a second line winger compared to the rest of the league so i'll disagree there. I think the frustration stems from him being so hot and so cold at times, but at the end of the year the numbers are still there.
https://public.tableau.com/shared/HK327774Y?:display_count=yes

This. The problem is that he went MIA in the last months of the season where we were desperately looking for secondary scoring. He reached a career high in goals but he scored most of them in a span of a few weeks only to completely disappear for half a season.

I mean if we had reached the playoffs I would not have been surprised to see him back at PPG production like always in the post-season. I can't think of a more streaky player right now than him. Now, the question is, what leads to his streakiness and how to prevent it? How to motivate a player like that? You'd think that's one of a coach's priorities.

 

[JoVel]

Paquette is a good example of a career (so far) ruined by injuries. When this guy is on top of his game he is a great bottom 6 player. But how many times have we seen this: He is playing well, only to get injured and then sucking for a god damn long period of time. If he could stay healthy he is one guy I would love to have in our bottom 6. The problem is though, he can't.