Salary Cap: 2017-18 Roster Building Thread V | Contract/FA charts in Post #1 | CAP SET at $75M

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I'm really starting to warm to the idea of Sam Gagner as their third line pivot.

He's coming off a big statistical year, so there's a risk of him getting a bloated contract, but Ill be surprised if he gets much over 2m.

He's a really skilled guy with experience on the pk, but he's inconsistent for sure. Of course, so is Bones.

When I watched him on the Oilers, he was always getting a plethora of short handed chances with his speed. He's nothing special defensively, but I think Sullivan and his coaching staff could help him improve substantially in that area.

He seems like a much better option than overpaying Bones or Hanzal.

Don't know much about Gagner, but he's been recently linked to the Hawks. Both sides having "mutual interest" in getting a deal done, for what it's worth.

 

[seabs926]

I'm really starting to warm to the idea of Sam Gagner as their third line pivot.

He's coming off a big statistical year, so there's a risk of him getting a bloated contract, but Ill be surprised if he gets much over 2m.

He's a really skilled guy with experience on the pk, but he's inconsistent for sure. Of course, so is Bones.

When I watched him on the Oilers, he was always getting a plethora of short handed chances with his speed. He's nothing special defensively, but I think Sullivan and his coaching staff could help him improve substantially in that area.

He seems like a much better option than overpaying Bones or Hanzal.

Gagner didn't play centre full time last year, got significantly more offensive zone starts than Bonino did, has bad FO numbers, and received a lot of PP time. I don't see how he's a fit.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Don't know much about Gagner, but he's been recently linked to the Hawks. Both sides having "mutual interest" in getting a deal done, for what it's worth.

He's a guy that teams aren't sure where he should play... pivot or rw. His game is inconsistent and he's not great defensively either.

He has a lot of tools to work with though. It just depends on if he comes in around 2m or so, for a year or two. If he comes in higher or for more term, probably not worth it.

I just don't want to see Bones get a bloated deal, and I'm not sold on Hanzal who is an injury risk, a plodder and will get a huge deal.

Gagner even with some of his issues, seems like the best option right now.

 

[AgentM]

I won't be torn up about landing Duchene, obviously. Great potential here, and a guy I think fits in perfectly.

That said, I don't want to move Sprong unless we absolutely have to, and I don't think Duchene is a big enough need to warrant the package Sakic, in his infinite incompetence, is going to want for him.

If we're going to spend big to land an elite player, I would hope it was a defenseman. I'm still 100% on board with landing an insurance policy in the event Letang does down to injury. We are set at wing, and I don't think we need a guy of Duchene's caliber at 3C, we just won back to back Cups with Bonino.

So we won w/a pretty weak defensive crew this year right? Let's just take it a step further and roll with 4 forwards and 1 defenseman! No need to worry about shipping out Maatta and Sheary for Duchene then!

L1 - Guenztel - Crosby - Sprong - Reaves
L2 - Rust - Malkin - Kessel - Wilson
L3 - Hagelin - Duchene - Hornqvist - ZAR
L4 - Kunitz - Cullen - Rowney - Kuhnhackl

D1 - Letang
D2 - Schultz
D3 - Dumoulin
Extra - Ruhwedel

Looks like a Championship roster to me

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

He's a guy that teams aren't sure where he should play... pivot or rw. His game is inconsistent and he's not great defensively either.

He has a lot of tools to work with though. It just depends on if he comes in around 2m or so, for a year or two. If he comes in higher or for more term, probably not worth it.

I just don't want to see Bones get a bloated deal, and I'm not sold on Hanzal who is an injury risk, a plodder and will get a huge deal.

Gagner even with some of his issues, seems like the best option right now.

Part of me really wants to see if Thornton wants to sign on for his chance at a Cup, but I'm wary of his skating/knee injury, and we're going to need guys who are capable of PKing. Losing Bonino, Cullen (likely on both, I'd guess), and having Kuhn be pushed out of the lineup leaves like... Hags and Rust?

I know PKing isn't exactly rocket science, and you don't exactly look for guys who excel at PKing, but I would rather not have Sid and Geno out there blocking shots.

I'm still pretty intrigued about Boyle as 4C as well. Big, rangy guy who call kill penalties, play a relatively physical game. Good at faceoffs, has the ability to chip in now and then offensively. I think he'd be a great pickup.

I'm with you on Bonino though. I think he's been bad or nothing special for far, far more of his time here than a guy you want to be paying north of $4M/yr for. This is his shot at getting a silly contract, and I think he'll cash in--luckily for us, I don't think it'll be here.

Like others have mentioned as well, I think it'd do us good to get some fresh, hungry bodies in. It's one thing to try and keep a winning team together, but an injection of hunger to win could go a long way.

So we won w/a pretty weak defensive crew this year right? Let's just take it a step further and roll with 4 forwards and 1 defenseman! No need to worry about shipping out Maatta and Sheary for Duchene then!

L1 - Guenztel - Crosby - Sprong - Reaves
L2 - Rust - Malkin - Kessel - Wilson
L3 - Hagelin - Duchene - Hornqvist - ZAR
L4 - Kunitz - Cullen - Rowney - Kuhnhackl

D1 - Letang
D2 - Schultz
D3 - Dumoulin
Extra - Ruhwedel

Looks like a Championship roster to me

Haha, this is a lot of effort for snark. I appreciate the dedication.

 

[Giskard]

So we won w/a pretty weak defensive crew this year right? Let's just take it a step further and roll with 4 forwards and 1 defenseman! No need to worry about shipping out Maatta and Sheary for Duchene then!

L1 - Guenztel - Crosby - Sprong - Reaves
L2 - Rust - Malkin - Kessel - Wilson
L3 - Hagelin - Duchene - Hornqvist - ZAR
L4 - Kunitz - Cullen - Rowney - Kuhnhackl

D1 - Letang
D2 - Schultz
D3 - Dumoulin
Extra - Ruhwedel

Looks like a Championship roster to me

I remember somebody posting something like this years ago, but with 2 forwards and 3 defencemen. It was the glory years of all defencemen and no wingers.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Part of me really wants to see if Thornton wants to sign on for his chance at a Cup, but I'm wary of his skating/knee injury, and we're going to need guys who are capable of PKing. Losing Bonino, Cullen (likely on both, I'd guess), and having Kuhn be pushed out of the lineup leaves like... Hags and Rust?

I know PKing isn't exactly rocket science, and you don't exactly look for guys who excel at PKing, but I would rather not have Sid and Geno out there blocking shots.

I'm still pretty intrigued about Boyle as 4C as well. Big, rangy guy who call kill penalties, play a relatively physical game. Good at faceoffs, has the ability to chip in now and then offensively. I think he'd be a great pickup.

I'm with you on Bonino though. I think he's been bad or nothing special for far, far more of his time here than a guy you want to be paying north of $4M/yr for. This is his shot at getting a silly contract, and I think he'll cash in--luckily for us, I don't think it'll be here.

Like others have mentioned as well, I think it'd do us good to get some fresh, hungry bodies in. It's one thing to try and keep a winning team together, but an injection of hunger to win could go a long way.

Do people really think Bonino was bad in the playoffs? I mean he'll always be kind of lackluster in the production department, but I think he was a legit contributor during our run. Just wasn't on the score sheet that often, which is a knock I grant you, but he played his role IMO.

Thing is, what would you pay Thornton? Even on a one year, "one last shot" deal, I don't see him taking less than what we'd pay Bones anyways, and frankly I think Thornton is old enough that I'd honestly rather have Bones. I say that because Bones would be the right kind of player for that position, as opposed to Thornton who is a puck distributor on his last legs playing 3C.

 

[turd]

I won't be torn up about landing Duchene, obviously. Great potential here, and a guy I think fits in perfectly.

That said, I don't want to move Sprong unless we absolutely have to, and I don't think Duchene is a big enough need to warrant the package Sakic, in his infinite incompetence, is going to want for him.

If we're going to spend big to land an elite player, I would hope it was a defenseman. I'm still 100% on board with landing an insurance policy in the event Letang does down to injury. We are set at wing, and I don't think we need a guy of Duchene's caliber at 3C, we just won back to back Cups with Bonino.

In your insurance policy for Letang scenario, are you assuming we do or do not give Schultz a long term deal? Because, for better or worse, I think if we're giving him a $4-5M AAV deal, he's gonna be your "insurance policy." And I don't think they have the space for Letang, a re-upped Schultz, AND an insurance policy.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Part of me really wants to see if Thornton wants to sign on for his chance at a Cup, but I'm wary of his skating/knee injury, and we're going to need guys who are capable of PKing. Losing Bonino, Cullen (likely on both, I'd guess), and having Kuhn be pushed out of the lineup leaves like... Hags and Rust?

I know PKing isn't exactly rocket science, and you don't exactly look for guys who excel at PKing, but I would rather not have Sid and Geno out there blocking shots.

I'm still pretty intrigued about Boyle as 4C as well. Big, rangy guy who call kill penalties, play a relatively physical game. Good at faceoffs, has the ability to chip in now and then offensively. I think he'd be a great pickup.

I'm with you on Bonino though. I think he's been bad or nothing special for far, far more of his time here than a guy you want to be paying north of $4M/yr for. This is his shot at getting a silly contract, and I think he'll cash in--luckily for us, I don't think it'll be here.

Like others have mentioned as well, I think it'd do us good to get some fresh, hungry bodies in. It's one thing to try and keep a winning team together, but an injection of hunger to win could go a long way.

Lots of teams want Thornton I've read. So on the off chance he leaves SJ, he will probably get a fat 2-3 year deal, and you have no idea about that knee.

Bones and Hanzal will get stupid long term deals because teams are desperate for big rangy pivots.

If JR goes the trade route it will cost healthy assets to acquire a decent third pivot. Getting a guy like Bozak will cost an arm and half a leg, and he comes with many of the same issues as Gagner, who they can get for free.

That's why I'm starting to lean toward Gagner right now, because he has enough skill and speed to really fit in Sullivan's system and I think the coaching staff can fix his other issues (defense/faceoff in particular)

Of course, they haven't fixed Sheary's um... defensive liabilities quite yet, so...

I am wondering about Boyle as well. Can he play as a third pivot still or is it past his time?

 

[cheesedanish87]

Do people really think Bonino was bad in the playoffs? I mean he'll always be kind of lackluster in the production department, but I think he was a legit contributor during our run. Just wasn't on the score sheet that often, which is a knock I grant you, but he played his role IMO.

Thing is, what would you pay Thornton? Even on a one year, "one last shot" deal, I don't see him taking less than what we'd pay Bones anyways, and frankly I think Thornton is old enough that I'd honestly rather have Bones. I say that because Bones would be the right kind of player for that position, as opposed to Thornton who is a puck distributor on his last legs playing 3C.

Yes, i thought Bones was terrible in the regular season and playoffs outside of one or two good weeks he had at the end of the regular season.

Almost every shift Bonino's line was on the ice in the playoffs they were stuck in its own end the majority of the shift.

I can only remember Bonino's line having one good game the entire playoffs and that was game 5 against the Sens when the pens blew out Ottawa.

I know its a small sample size but did anyone actually think the pens missed Bonino the last 4 games of the finals?

I thought they looked a lot better without him.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Yes, i thought Bones was terrible in the regular season and playoffs outside of one or two good weeks he had at the end of the regular season.

Almost every shift Bonino's line was on the ice in the playoffs they were stuck in its own end the majority of the shift.

I can only remember Bonino's line having one good game the entire playoffs and that was game 5 against the Sens when the pens blew out Ottawa.

I know its a small sample size but did anyone actually think the pens missed Bonino the last 4 games of the finals?

I thought they looked a lot better without him.

I don't think they're a better team without him at all, but I see where you're coming from. I'm fine with keeping him just because you win Cups, guys get raises. That's just how it works. I also don't think his salary is going to be anything crazy, but I'm in the minority there.

I'm really not sure who else we'd really get though. I like Gagner but don't know why he wouldn't get a pretty nice contract himself. Maybe he'll get something cost effective, but if the argument that Bones will get overpaid is due to the fact that teams are desperate for centers, I don't know why the same wouldn't apply to Gagner. He's much more suited for a 2nd line scoring role than Bonino. I know Bonino has some Cup mojo to go along with his tangible skills, but I don't know why any team would overpay him to be a 2C. It's 100% apparent he cannot play that role.

In short I think Bones is a boring ass player. I think he produces enough for where he plays though, even if it doesn't look pretty. Plus we've had success with him. If people want new blood I respect that, but I'm confident keeping everyone in place barring an impossibility such as keeping Daley.

 

[SherogoesHAM]

so what is the best case scenario?

Already have a handshake agreement with Radulov, Trade Maatta, Horn, and 1st for Duchene and Zadorov.

 

[Shady Machine]

No thanks on Sam Gagner unless Cullen is coming back. Otherwise, Sid will be taking every Dzone draw.

 

[Coach Travis]

So we won w/a pretty weak defensive crew this year right? Let's just take it a step further and roll with 4 forwards and 1 defenseman! No need to worry about shipping out Maatta and Sheary for Duchene then!

L1 - Guenztel - Crosby - Sprong - Reaves
L2 - Rust - Malkin - Kessel - Wilson
L3 - Hagelin - Duchene - Hornqvist - ZAR
L4 - Kunitz - Cullen - Rowney - Kuhnhackl

D1 - Letang
D2 - Schultz
D3 - Dumoulin
Extra - Ruhwedel

Looks like a Championship roster to me

This is what's known as the Torpedo System sometimes called the "Swedish Torpedo" although I believe it originated in Russia.

Your forwards are broken into 2 groups: Torpedos (ball busting forecheckers) and half-backs (in the OZ they play like Left & Right F3's and in the DZ instead of having 2 D's & 1C, it's like having 2 C's & 1 D)

 

[cheesedanish87]

I don't think they're a better team without him at all, but I see where you're coming from. I'm fine with keeping him just because you win Cups, guys get raises. That's just how it works. I also don't think his salary is going to be anything crazy, but I'm in the minority there.

I'm really not sure who else we'd really get though. I like Gagner but don't know why he wouldn't get a pretty nice contract himself. Maybe he'll get something cost effective, but if the argument that Bones will get overpaid is due to the fact that teams are desperate for centers, I don't know why the same wouldn't apply to Gagner. He's much more suited for a 2nd line scoring role than Bonino. I know Bonino has some Cup mojo to go along with his tangible skills, but I don't know why any team would overpay him to be a 2C. It's 100% apparent he cannot play that role.

In short I think Bones is a boring ass player. I think he produces enough for where he plays though, even if it doesn't look pretty. Plus we've had success with him. If people want new blood I respect that, but I'm confident keeping everyone in place barring an impossibility such as keeping Daley.

I feel like if their is a team in the league that can sign a big player in free agency at a reasonable contract its the pens.

Maybe you can get a player like Hanzal or Boyle on a decent contract, i heard an interview with Boyle saying winning was important to him, maybe he would be willing to take less money to sign with the pens.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

No thanks on Sam Gagner unless Cullen is coming back. Otherwise, Sid will be taking every Dzone draw.

One thing with trading for Bozak is he is a near elite faceoff guy. I think he was in the top ten league wide the last couple of seasons.

He's just inconsistent and not strong defensively.

Just read a PG article that JR has some potential deals he's looking at. Maybe Bozak is one of those deals... no idea.

 

[ColePens]

As much as I love blockbuster trades and would love to have Duchene, I honestly don't want to kill our depth and I really don't want to trade Sprong. Maybe I/We have over hyped him at this point but the kid looks like he has a real shot at being a 30+ goal winger in this league and we would be dumb to trade him at this point.

That said we are still in win now mode and I AM willing to move pieces to get a good 3C as that is necessary to our success. I think ColePens mentioned recently that Bozak is the way to go and I'd be down with that if we can get him without losing Maatta.

Just want to add to this because I really agree - depth/ELCs seem to help win cups more than anything. Going all-in doesn't guarantee anything. Having guys like Jake, Sprong, Sheary, Rust all cost controlled is seriously what is driving this team with a great core.

Please do not sacrifice speed, skill, youth, depth, etc. for a big name. Please. And do not hand Sprong away because a guy can help you this season only when he may be able to help for 4-5 at a very high level.

A boring offseason most likely is the right move for what's out there and what players will cost. Obviously test the market and see if guys like Radulov want a 1 year deal or see if we can grab that 3C at a discount, but do not get sucked in to needing that big move. Test the trade market, but don't move our guys unless the RIGHT move is there.

 

[Woodrow]

Lots of the rosters posted in this thread need more Sprong!

 

[mpp9]

As for D-men, JM-Liles is a free agent and coming off a one year contract at 2.25 mil. Averaged 16-17 minutes and has become a high end shot suppressor after being more of an offensive D-men. JR signed him before too.

 

[molon labe]

Have Guentzel or Rust been tried at the Center position at any point in their later careers? Sheary is a defensive liability though he has great vision and puck handling - but Guentzel and Rust are both decent defensively, on faceoffs, and are great passers.

Thinking more of an option going forward here.

I'm kinda hoping that Cullen returns for one more year...and my only hesitation is that if he were to get hurt or diminish I'd hate to see him go out that way in comparison to how he's been. But that guy is a phenominal 4C and an all-around loveable player.

Bones is just in a position where he's probably the best centerman available via FA. Thornton is old and will only get 1-2 years, and Duchene is tied up in a basement in Sakic's house. There are just too many teams thirsty for 2-4C's in this league for me to believe he'll sign a sweet deal with the Pens for 4 years. The guy is going to get 6 years and 5M somewhere and this is one of those situations where it'd be tough to be GMJR.

 

[ColePens]

As for D-men, JM-Liles is a free agent and coming off a one year contract at 2.25 mil. Averaged 16-17 minutes and has become a high end shot suppressor after being more of an offensive D-men. JR signed him before too.

I really liked him a few years ago, but honestly I have not seen the guy play in probably 2+ years. No idea what his game is like nowadays.

 

[Giskard]

so what is the best case scenario?

Already have a handshake agreement with Radulov, Trade Maatta, Horn, and 1st for Duchene and Zadorov.

In this reality? Nope.

 

[ColePens]

Have Guentzel or Rust been tried at the Center position at any point in their later careers? Sheary is a defensive liability though he has great vision and puck handling - but Guentzel and Rust are both decent defensively, on faceoffs, and are great passers.

It's such a small sample size but the 2 attempts at having Jake play center did not go well. He got outmuscled and lost a few assignments in the d-zone. What young player doesn't, though? But at least from that VERY small sample size, he didn't look as good at center as he did everywhere else.

Weirdly now would be a decent time to have Fehr with 1 year left as our L4 C

 

[Shady Machine]

One thing with trading for Bozak is he is a near elite faceoff guy. I think he was in the top ten league wide the last couple of seasons.

He's just inconsistent and not strong defensively.

Just read a PG article that JR has some potential deals he's looking at. Maybe Bozak is one of those deals... no idea.

I'd be happy with Bozak. He's a career 53.4% in faceoffs vs Gagner at 45.3%. That makes a big difference in terms of how a coach can use a player.

On the Gagner front, if the Pens could get him on the cheap and sign a Boyle for 4C/defensive specialist, that might be a reasonable option.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

See many suggesting Boyle. Don't mind him but I think his salary would be a tad too high.