2017-18 Champions Hockey League

[jasonr90]

Well in my social bubble I always thought that lets say first eight or ten KHL teams would be automatically attractive to any fan because they are either strong or famous. This is quite a new for me.

SKA, CSKA, maybe Ak Bars. The KHL has the parity of the Canadian junior leagues

 

[Jussi]

The journalist did not write it (does not know?) but the biggest problem with scheduling is a position of European federations/leagues on IIHF calendar. They refused the KHL´s proposal to reform the IIHF scheduling. Now, they (the CHL) have to put their CHL games at IIHF international break, because there is not other time for it. The saddest part is they do not realise they made a mistake in the past. Your the Finnish league´s scheduling problem, if reduced by 4-5 games, would not improve the CHL scheduling at all. You do not want to talk about it, I know....

The guy is talking about the KHL from Swedish perspective. As we know, the Swedish fans do not like international games as the CHL has shown. He assumes that the Swedish fans would behave the same with the KHL teams. On the other hand, he said SKA is more attractive than Bern or Liberec. Why? Bern & Liberec are considered as one of the best teams of their respective leagues, like SKA. From that point of view, there is no difference between them, they all are one of the best in their leagues. Or the KHL has more prestige? Even in Sweden?

Finnish league plays a lot of games on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. Reducing games in the regular season would free up those days (even Liiga team captains mentioned that in the Finnish hockey magazine Jääkiekkolehti's captain's poll) for CHL games.

No, he's saying Swedes aren't interested in non-Swedish teams period. While they were interested when Djurgården and Malmö were winning the European Cup, they weren't that interested during the EHL. Of course if the team is doing well, they'll show up in the finals.

 

[vorky]

Finnish league plays a lot of games on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. Reducing games in the regular season would free up those days (even Liiga team captains mentioned that in the Finnish hockey magazine Jääkiekkolehti's captain's poll) for CHL games.

Even if Liiga reduced it, by more than 3-4 games/season, it would not solve the CHL´s problem. Other leagues use to play during weekday as well. I do not believe all leagues to agree to reduce their regular season calendar.

No, he's saying Swedes aren't interested in non-Swedish teams period. While they were interested when Djurgården and Malmö were winning the European Cup, they weren't that interested during the EHL. Of course if the team is doing well, they'll show up in the finals.

I said the same.

 

[Jussi]

Even if Liiga reduced it, by more than 3-4 games/season, it would not solve the CHL´s problem. Other leagues use to play during weekday as well. I do not believe all leagues to agree to reduce their regular season calendar.

No, Finnish league is the problem. Finnish sports journalists can't understand why the club bosses stick to 60 games when everyone (fans and players) prefers shorter regular season. During the EHL it was easier to schedule the games because SM-Liiga wasn't 60 games then.

 

[Jablkon]

The Swedish journalist wrote about the CHL´s scheduling problem. If you agree, that there is a problem, who is to blame for it? How to solve it? And when?

I obviously have no clue what he wrote. I dont really care about schedule. Its not a catastrophic problem for me. If there is any, they can fire CEO soon or later if they are not satisfied with his job. For how long this competition will certainly exist? 2022? They can try to attract KHL teams in two years and see if they can find some conclusion. Despite that protests from Brynas and other clubs it looks that clubs have obligation to play in it or it would have to cease by shareholders intentions. If it keeps existing , clubs will have to participate in it and we will see what happens, if fans constantly ignore it, or clubs change their attitude or fans take it. Because sending juniors or B teams there for next 4 years and waiting for the end seems to me quite strange plan.

 

[vorky]

No, Finnish league is the problem. Finnish sports journalists can't understand why the club bosses stick to 60 games when everyone (fans and players) prefers shorter regular season. During the EHL it was easier to schedule the games because SM-Liiga wasn't 60 games then.

So other leagues do not play during weekday?

 

[vorky]

I obviously have no clue what he wrote. I dont really care about schedule. Its not a catastrophic problem for me. If there is any, they can fire CEO soon or later if they are not satisfied with his job. For how long this competition will certainly exist? 2022? They can try to attract KHL teams in two years and see if they can find some conclusion. Despite that protests from Brynas and other clubs it looks that clubs have obligation to play in it or it would have to cease by shareholders intentions. If it keeps existing , clubs will have to participate in it and we will see what happens, if fans constantly ignore it, or clubs change their attitude or fans take it. Because sending juniors or B teams there for next 4 years and waiting for the end seems to me quite strange plan.

I would not blame CEO so much. I would blame federations & leagues, including clubs. They are not able to agree on a consensus which would benefit all - NT & clubs.

The KHL has the same problem with scheduling. But, there is a big difference. The KHL tried to change the system, but their offer was refused. I have not noticed similar offer from European clubs/leagues. The same leagues/clubs launched the CHL, but did not realise there could be a scheduling problem. Now, they are a victim. I am really interested. Is there any international club competition with similar scheduling conflict? That they schedule their games during NT breaks.

 

[Jablkon]

I would not blame CEO so much. I would blame federations & leagues, including clubs. They are not able to agree on a consensus which would benefit all - NT & clubs.

The KHL has the same problem with scheduling. But, there is a big difference. The KHL tried to change the system, but their offer was refused. I have not noticed similar offer from European clubs/leagues. The same leagues/clubs launched the CHL, but did not realise they could be a scheduling problem. Now, they are a victim. I am really interested. Is there any international club competition with similar scheduling conflict? That they schedule their games during NT breaks.

Maybe its not good sign for CHL reputation that there are no special breaks if this is even possible to approach by leagues. But I dont really think this is the main issue. Main issue seems to me clubs who voted for that league on their league board and realized now they dont want to play it for several reasons. Either because underdogs take it seriously or they dont like to travel or their fans dont like it or CHL doesnt charge some breaches accurately. Schedule looks like minor issue or lets say solvable one if there is a will. But sure I dont know how it isin Finnland.

 

[vorky]

Maybe its not good sign for CHL reputation that there are no special breaks if this is even possible to approach by leagues. But I dont really think this is the main issue. Main issue seems to me clubs who voted for that league on their league board and realized now they dont want to play it for several reasons. Either because underdogs take it seriously or they dont like to travel or their fans dont like it or CHL doesnt charge some breaches accurately. Schedule looks like minor issue or lets say solvable one if there is a will. But sure I dont know how it isin Finnland.

Lets look at this from different angle.

The CHL wants (or should want) to attract fans to arenas. You need media to promote the competition. But your games are played during summer or NT breaks. You know, there is a vacation in summer. Yes, they can schedule it for September & solve the problem. Media pay attention to NT during international breaks. I can not say about Swedish & Finnish, but Czech & Russia media switch to EHT during the break. Sure, there is a coverage of CHL at the time. But is CHL´s coverage bigger than EHT? Fans, yes, fans of CHL teams know there is a game. But, does a casual fan know there is a CHL game? Now compare this knowledge with another casual fan & his knowledge of EHT.

Btw, this scheduling is one of reasons why the KHL does not want to join. The KHL does not want to send there a team, top team, which players are called to NTs. The KHL knows, it would be a degradation of the KHL & the joint product.

 

[Jablkon]

Lets look at this from different angle.

The CHL wants (or should want) to attract fans to arenas. You need media to promote the competition. But your games are played during summer or NT breaks. You know, there is a vacation in summer. Yes, they can schedule it for September & solve the problem. Media pay attention to NT during international breaks. I can not say about Swedish & Finnish, but Czech & Russia media switch to EHT during the break. Sure, there is a coverage of CHL at the time. But is CHL´s coverage bigger than EHT? Fans, yes, fans of CHL teams know there is a game. But, does a casual fan know there is a CHL game? Now compare this knowledge with another casual fan & his knowledge of EHT.

Btw, this scheduling is one of reasons why the KHL does not want to join. The KHL does not want to send there a team, top team, which players are called to NTs. The KHL knows, it would be a degradation of the KHL & the joint product.

I personally like summer games, also voted for it in that survey. Its a best preseason for me. Sure that NT breaks are not such problem for czech teams imo because its maximally about 1-3 guys from each team and you can somehow make deal with national team now. Might be different in russian, finnish or swedish case. I mean czechs trying to make some compromise in that.

As to fans, I dont discuss it much here. EHT is tough to evaluate so as that term “ordinary” hockey fan. I think club fans all know it. If you mean that hype around national team which attrack masses, than no but I honestly dont know how much is EHT followed. But sure national team takes more media attraction.

Problem is no free broadcast imo. This league is too much hidden. If ordinary fan even realize its there, I doubt he will ever pay for it. But when he watch it free on TV, than he might would realize its worth to watch instead of some ordinary league game. This would also make a preassure on teams to put better roster there imo. When I realized that NHL network brodcasted that JYP-Brno match, it was quite hard to answer any NA questions here, when you know they sent juniors there. Its a very strange presentation.

But this will all depends on clubs. If you consider KHL, than there must be 100 certainty that all present clubs will try for 100 percent to give them a match. And this is what I am not sure now and this would be true disrespect to KHL imo.

 

[Jussi]

So other leagues do not play during weekday?

Their shorter schedules would allow to leave a CHL window for CHL games if the Finnish league had one as well. Every Finnish poster on this site will agree with me on there being too many gamesi n Liiga and and that fans have felt so for many years. They'd also agree with me that Liiga club bosses are selfish idiots for wanting to have games during international breaks.

 

[vorky]

I personally like summer games, also voted for it in that survey. Its a best preseason for me. Sure that NT breaks are not such problem for czech teams imo because its maximally about 1-3 guys from each team and you can somehow make deal with national team now. Might be different in russian, finnish or swedish case. I mean czechs trying to make some compromise in that.

The KHL teams would be the biggest victims of the CHL scheduling if the KHL played the tournament. Because all RUS NT consists of KHL players & CZ/FIN/SWE NT have many KHLers at EHT too. And there are other NT tournaments with Latvian & Slovan NTs too, but yes, Slovan & Dinamo Riga are not likely to play the CHL. In such conditions, why should the KHL agree to join the CHL if there is such a problem with players unavailability?

As to fans, I dont discuss it much here. EHT is tough to evaluate so as that term “ordinary” hockey fan. I think club fans all know it. If you mean that hype around national team which attrack masses, than no but I honestly dont know how much is EHT followed. But sure national team takes more media attraction.

Problem is no free broadcast imo. This league is too much hidden. If ordinary fan even realize its there, I doubt he will ever pay for it. But when he watch it free on TV, than he might would realize its worth to watch instead of some ordinary league game. This would also make a preassure on teams to put better roster there imo. When I realized that NHL network brodcasted that JYP-Brno match, it was quite hard to answer any NA questions here, when you know they sent juniors there. Its a very strange presentation.

I read an interview of Zaruba (Czech public TV sport director, the most famous Czech hockey announcer - for guys do not know him). He said the CHL wanted 3 or 4 more money for one season than biathlon for 2-4 seasons. I do not remember exact data, but the CHL is much more expensive for TVs. And it is a big question if the CHL would have bigger ratings than biathlon. I doubt. And he said that Czech public TV (CT Sport) has its own hockey product - the Czech league - so no reason to promote another competition. I do not follow CT Sport´s broadcasting of Czech league, but I heard they do not even mention that there is something like the CHL.... Another problem are highlights at Branky Body Vteriny (daily sport program at CT, cca 5-10 minutes). The same sport program is in Slovakia of course. If I remember they mention the CHL here, but only with a reference to a Slovak team. Btw, the same problem is with the KHL highlights, they mention only Slovan´s games. But, you have NHL highlights every day at this program. Perhaps the KHL & the CHL can not do anything to change it, because it is how media/TV work - they have only one source of information - Reuters & all related agencies, which are USA centric.

But this will all depends on clubs. If you consider KHL, than there must be 100 certainty that all present clubs will try for 100 percent to give them a match. And this is what I am not sure now and this would be true disrespect to KHL imo.

That is what I did not mean by degradation of the KHL. But yes, it is another way how to look at it. The point was that if you decide to create a joint project, you need to send there your best teams & players. And it is not possible if many top players from your best teams are called to NTs at the same time. If you still insist on playing such club games, you disrespect the competition itself & your own teams/league.

 

[Jussi]

I would not blame CEO so much. I would blame federations & leagues, including clubs. They are not able to agree on a consensus which would benefit all - NT & clubs.

The KHL has the same problem with scheduling. But, there is a big difference. The KHL tried to change the system, but their offer was refused. I have not noticed similar offer from European clubs/leagues. The same leagues/clubs launched the CHL, but did not realise there could be a scheduling problem. Now, they are a victim. I am really interested. Is there any international club competition with similar scheduling conflict? That they schedule their games during NT breaks.

Euroleague. FIBA set World Cup qualification dates so close to Euroleague games and Euroleague refused to bugde, resulting in for example Finland being without Petteri Koponen and Sasu Salin for the opening games.

More here: FIBA and ECA clash again after Euroleague calendar omits window for international matches

 

[Jussi]

T

I read an interview of Zaruba (Czech public TV sport director, the most famous Czech hockey announcer - for guys do not know him). He said the CHL wanted 3 or 4 more money for one season than biathlon for 2-4 seasons. I do not remember exact data, but the CHL is much more expensive for TVs. And it is a big question if the CHL would have bigger ratings than biathlon. I doubt. And he said that Czech public TV (CT Sport) has its own hockey product - the Czech league - so no reason to promote another competition. I do not follow CT Sport´s broadcasting of Czech league, but I heard they do not even mention that there is something like the CHL.... Another problem are highlights at Branky Body Vteriny (daily sport program at CT, cca 5-10 minutes). The same sport program is in Slovakia of course. If I remember they mention the CHL here, but only with a reference to a Slovak team. Btw, the same problem is with the KHL highlights, they mention only Slovan´s games. But, you have NHL highlights every day at this program. Perhaps the KHL & the CHL can not do anything to change it, because it is how media/TV work - they have only one source of information - Reuters & all related agencies, which are USA centric.

I think only football can beat biathlon these days during winter in Central and Eastern Europe for tv ratings.

 

[Jablkon]

The KHL teams would be the biggest victims of the CHL scheduling if the KHL played the tournament. Because all RUS NT consists of KHL players & CZ/FIN/SWE NT have many KHLers at EHT too. And there are other NT tournaments with Latvian & Slovan NTs too, but yes, Slovan & Dinamo Riga are not likely to play the CHL. In such conditions, why should the KHL agree to join the CHL if there is such a problem with players unavailability?


I read an interview of Zaruba (Czech public TV sport director, the most famous Czech hockey announcer - for guys do not know him). He said the CHL wanted 3 or 4 more money for one season than biathlon for 2-4 seasons. I do not remember exact data, but the CHL is much more expensive for TVs. And it is a big question if the CHL would have bigger ratings than biathlon. I doubt. And he said that Czech public TV (CT Sport) has its own hockey product - the Czech league - so no reason to promote another competition. I do not follow CT Sport´s broadcasting of Czech league, but I heard they do not even mention that there is something like the CHL.... Another problem are highlights at Branky Body Vteriny (daily sport program at CT, cca 5-10 minutes). The same sport program is in Slovakia of course. If I remember they mention the CHL here, but only with a reference to a Slovak team. Btw, the same problem is with the KHL highlights, they mention only Slovan´s games. But, you have NHL highlights every day at this program. Perhaps the KHL & the CHL can not do anything to change it, because it is how media/TV work - they have only one source of information - Reuters & all related agencies, which are USA centric.


That is what I did not mean by degradation of the KHL. But yes, it is another way how to look at it. The point was that if you decide to create a joint project, you need to send there your best teams & players. And it is not possible if many top players from your best teams are called to NTs at the same time. If you still insist on playing such club games, you disrespect the competition itself & your own teams/league.

In regards to schedule it would probably have to be sort out if KHL joins, notwithstanding possible travelling to Omsk and other further areas. But this all is too premature. I understand you look at it from kHL point of view but CHL and mainly euro clubs are not ready to KHL joining the league imo. We dont know whether they are ready to cover travel costs and even whether they have rosters deep and strong enough. And most importantly they have to be positive towards this idea.

In regards to TV I dont have high meaning about CZTV hockey broadcast. I would even believe they really protecting their product despite CHL matches, when teams are in, are better than half of the czech league matches. But CHL and KHL are definetely reported in short news, I dont follow it much though. Also depends which TV has KHL rights.

But anyway I am waiting now what kind of approach mainly swedish clubs choose for next season.

 

[vorky]

In regards to schedule it would probably have to be sort out if KHL joins, notwithstanding possible travelling to Omsk and other further areas. But this all is too premature. I understand you look at it from kHL point of view but CHL and mainly euro clubs are not ready to KHL joining the league imo. We dont know whether they are ready to cover travel costs and even whether they have rosters deep and strong enough. And most importantly they have to be positive towards this idea.

In regards to TV I dont have high meaning about CZTV hockey broadcast. I would even believe they really protecting their product despite CHL matches, when teams are in, are better than half of the czech league matches. But CHL and KHL are definetely reported in short news, I dont follow it much though. Also depends which TV has KHL rights.

But anyway I am waiting now what kind of approach mainly swedish clubs choose for next season.

I understand your words on travelling costs, but it is not the best way if you (the CHL) really wants the KHL in the competition. I know that Russia is big, but one flight to Omsk, Kazan or Ufa would not ruin European teams. Teams travelled to Magnitogorsk & Ufa in the CHL 2008 and it did not ruin them.

 

[Jablkon]

I understand your words on travelling costs, but it is not the best way if you (the CHL) really wants the KHL in the competition. I know that Russia is big, but one flight to Omsk, Kazan or Ufa would not ruin European teams. Teams travelled to Magnitogorsk & Ufa in the CHL 2008 and it did not ruin them.

Yeh. But I mean lof of teams are still flying in matchday now and some of them still complain about travelling. There are like 3-5 teams from each better country in CHL and some of them might be only local ones. I just think its not even time to KHL joining CHL. But sure they can try shock treat, somehow make that deal and shut mouth of all complaining clubs. But right now I am quite annoyed by clubs attitude. This also include that B squats from Brno. Clubs attitude has obviously the biggest impact on attendance in Czech Republic and I also suspect bit swiss teams not doing much for it so my enthusiam about this project decreased. After all of that big hype after last year final, this season is definetely step back and its a mess. I personally think attendance is problem only in Sweden and Finnlad whose clubs on the other hand look they are trying. It had a quite a potential in Czech Republic but it was literally ruined by some clubs imo. When you attacking 5000 people in first match and then you just bashed this league, its beyond understandable.Iam convinced this seriously damaged CHL reputation and as a fan I am not really enthusiastic anymore.

 

[vorky]

Yeh. But I mean lof of teams are still flying in matchday now and some of them still complain about travelling. There are like 3-5 teams from each better country in CHL and some of them might be only local ones. I just think its not even time to KHL joining CHL. But sure they can try shock treat, somehow make that deal and shut mouth of all complaining clubs. But right now I am quite annoyed by clubs attitude. This also include that B squats from Brno. Clubs attitude has obviously the biggest impact on attendance in Czech Republic and I also suspect bit swiss teams not doing much for it so my enthusiam about this project decreased. After all of that big hype after last year final, this season is definetely step back and its a mess. I personally think attendance is problem only in Sweden and Finnlad whose clubs on the other hand look they are trying. It had a quite a potential in Czech Republic but it was literally ruined by some clubs imo. When you attacking 5000 people in first match and then you just bashed this league, its beyond understandable.Iam convinced this seriously damaged CHL reputation and as a fan I am not really enthusiastic anymore.

I said it many times & will repeat - I think the KHL will not join, no reason for it. But, even if there is 0,001% chance for a cooperation of both leagues, it is not clever to say: "We will not travel to Omsk or so" For the KHL, it is easier to cooperate with a concrete club, like with HC Davos. The Swiss side played at KHL pre-season tournament in Astana, next February there is a tournament in Davos with Magnitka, Riga, Davos & Trinec.

I am for a strong European cross-border competition. A word "strong" is important. You implies some clubs do not do their best in the CHL. What to do in such a situation? To keep playing & hope for better tommorows? To abandon the competition? To reform it somehow? First option mean that nothing will change within years. Second would be a game over for a long time. The reform was there before this season. Did it help?

 

[Jablkon]

I said it many times & will repeat - I think the KHL will not join, no reason for it. But, even if there is 0,001% chance for a cooperation of both leagues, it is not clever to say: "We will not travel to Omsk or so" For the KHL, it is easier to cooperate with a concrete club, like with HC Davos. The Swiss side played at KHL pre-season tournament in Astana, next February there is a tournament in Davos with Magnitka, Riga, Davos & Trinec.

I am for a strong European cross-border competition. A word "strong" is important. You implies some clubs do not do their best in the CHL. What to do in such a situation? To keep playing & hope for better tommorows? To abandon the competition? To reform it somehow? First option mean that nothing will change within years. Second would be a game over for a long time. The reform was there before this season. Did it help?

I already answered your question what to do several times.This issue is not aboutDavos, Trinec, Frolunda, Oulun and other big clubs. Its about clubs like Zlin, Brynas, Hradec Kralove etc which get to that competition by results in league and obviously are not happy with that despite they approved it.

If qualification by results is generally accepted as a progress but these clubs dont want it like that, then they or their associations as CHL shareholders would have to negotiate about that again.This is the first issue here.


So right now all of these clubs associations would have to sit together again and reevaluate their position to send the message to fans. And if they realize they dont like it, then they can cancel it or reform it, whatever. Its up to them, they are shareholders.

And this is what they have to do in order to prevent the situation clubs would complain about travelling to Nottingham, France,, wherever. And they would have to do the same before they offer participation to KHL to prevent complaints about travelling to Omsk and to make sure clubs are ready to this joint.

What I dont understand is your approach here when you are almost sure KHL will not participate in CHL, you obviously dont like that competiton much and you just bring here some bigger or minor issues which are not even on table.

 

[Razamanaz]

JYP seems to be a junkyard against Trinec ... and that on home turf.

0-1 down after the first period ... and no fight.

You (JYP) should be bad, dirty and mean and dynamite on home turf!

 

[lakers11]

JYP seems to be a junkyard against Trinec ... and that on home turf.

0-1 down after the first period ... and no fight.

You (JYP) should be bad, dirty and mean and dynamite on home turf!

Looks like they listened

 

[Razamanaz]

4-1 for JYP against Trinice after two periods.

But Trinice-support give me a f***in' damn break (a plenty fans at the arena!) ... I especially like the banderoll with: AC/HT!

Rock'n'roll brothers and sisters!

Jyväskylä is a student town of Finland ...

 

[Razamanaz]

And don't get me wrong, folks... coz I'am Finland trough and through!

 

[vorky]

On the contrary, the CHL Board has agreed it cannot accept neither Nomad Astana (KAZ) nor Ritten Sport (ITA) as CHL qualifiers if they win the IIHF Continental Cup. Nomad Astana, as a Kazakh team, is geographically based in Central Asia and is therefore not eligible for a pan-European competition. Ritten Sport is playing the Alps Hockey League, and is therefore considered a second division team (underneath the EBEL) who cannot get eligibility for the CHL.

That is a reply to our previous discussion about the KHL.

 

[Maluk11]

CHL continue tonight. Trinec vs Jyvaskyla game is already played (1-1). I am interested if Czechs teams can make it.