World Cup: 2016 World Cup Part II: All fans and nations welcome

[jj cale]

Does anyone thinkg that his year's Team Canada is one of the best that we've had in the last 25 years? I mean, look at the roster.

Getzlaf - Crosby - Stamkos
Tavares - Giroux - Bergeron
Benn - Thornton - Seguin
Duchene - Toews - Carter
Marchand

Keith - Weber
Vlasic - Doughty
Pietrangelo - Burns
Muzzin

Price, Holtby, Crawford

Babcock, Quenneville, Trotz, Julien, Peters



I mean, not only there's many of future Hall Of Famers, not only there's 22 olympic-gold-medals, not only there's 20 StanleyCup rings (and together it's 28 times that the players have played the Stanley Cup finals), but also the recent success of those players, or what they've accomplished throughout their careers.... it's phenomenal group of players in my opinion. It's true that it's a shame McDavid can't be there, I must admit, it would've been perfect then. But when you look at the team, I think it's gonna be stronger than the two we've lately seen winning the olympic gold, which is kinda scary, isn't it?

It sure looks good, I just wish we had pre injury Stamkos going for this team, then I think the chances of it being a really special team would be very high. I also think the Thornton inclusion was a bit of a knee jerk reaction pick, but if Babcock was o.k with it maybe my concerns are misplaced.

 

[Jablkon]

Slovenia has one thousand registered hockey players. They're ranked 15th in the world. That tells you pretty much all you need to know about hockey's competitiveness.

You said Finnland can fight for medals due to small competition in hockey. Thats not true imo. There was even smaller competition in hockey in 70s and 80s, and your team was not able to make anything. Smaller competititon does not mean that some nation does not take it dead serious and prepare sofisticated programs. Canada would be on top even if there were another 12 competitive countries. I would even say that US and canadian hockey development program is more sofisticated than brazilian soccer program, if there is anything like this....

 

[Jablkon]

How many times have Cameroon and Nigeria been to the semis? South Korea was there once, but only thanks to horrible home refereeing.

It does not really matter. Those are nations wiich brings superstar players or are capable
To play top football once a while (especially african teams), so as many other soccer teams. However thats not the case of hockey. For example
Latvia or Belarus are still +- on same level. Swiss progress should be also faster imo (in terms of soccer logic), only Denmark made significant step up recently and Slovakia even decrease, so as czechs and Russians to some extent. So even if the competition is smaller no team outside top six is able to break up to the top once a while or even have the potential to make it. There is top 6 teams..... big gap, there is one league..... big gap. And when the gap is getting smaller , its ussually because of top team is getting weaker, so as czechs or slovaks..., not because other countries are getting significantly stronger imo.

 

[snipes]

Since we're debating international hockey. Outside of the Big 6, I have spots #7 and #8 wide open.

Teams who should compete for the 7th and 8th spot at future World Cups:
Denmark
Slovakia
Switzerland
Germany

It seems in Europe, from what I've read/heard, Slovakia and Switzerland are the most offended by not being the 7th and 8th team. The IIHF has no jurisdiction over North American hockey. Switzerland had no guarantee of even being one of the 8 teams represented.

In my view, Denmark and Germany had as good of a chance to take the 7th and 8th spot as Switzerland and Slovakia did. Especially on North American soil. Canada loves the Flying Danes:

 

[jj cale]

Canada loves the Flying Danes:

Yeah, we love em allright.

We love them until we perceive they are becoming a threat to us.

You are probably far too young to remember this but I am not..........Canadian fans used to cheer for the U.S in international hockey games, I swear to you it's true!!

Those days are long gone.

 

[snipes]

Yeah, we love em allright.

We love them until we perceive they are becoming a threat to us.

You are probably far too young to remember this but I am not..........Canadian fans used to cheer for the U.S in international hockey games, I swear to you it's true!!

Those days are long gone.

I remember. I know the history of our game.

The more common underlying theme is Canadians love good hockey.

 

[ForumNamePending]

Slovakia in 2010 was a much better team than Slovakia now, and therefore I highly doubt they wouldn't invite them at that time, as I said, they were in TOP7. Now, they are not, which is making the decision that much easier for the NHL.

Even back in '10 "Some of Europe" (including Slovak players) and a NA U24 team would have offered much more star power, and top to bottom stronger teams (at least on paper) than Slovakia could have. Knowing what we know now, if the NHL had a choice between a team featuring Hossa, Chara, Cibak, Radivojevic, Jurcina, etc. or a team featuring Hossa, Chara, Kopitar, Vanek, Streit, etc., I don't think it's crazy to think the NHL would have opted for the latter.

This is all a bit of a silly hypothetical though... So I guess my bad for even bringing it up.

Who is in the top 7 now? Why is that seventh team not invited? To justify the NHL's moronic decision?

It all seems a bit arbitrary, doesn't it?

The term of top7, top8, or top6 has always represented a group of the teams that are able to beat each other, not always, but not rarely, rather more often than not. And of course the teams that rarely have problems with the weaker teams. Slovakia were in that group at that time. They are hardly in that group now, and the same goes for Switzerland. No team is in the TOP7, because the top7 doesn't exist. Switerland can beat someone from time to time, but they also can lose to Norway, France, and other teams, and pretty regularly, and the same goes for Slovakia now.

So why are the Czechs being kept around? They didn't beat anyone of consequence in Sochi and also lost to Switzerland. In fact both Switzerland and Slovakia earned more points than the Czech Rep. against "top6" nations.

 

[jj cale]

The more common underlying theme is Canadians love good hockey.

I never said we didn't.

Just wanted us all to have a reality check in that if for one second we thought the danes were the slightest threat to our hockey hegemony we would turn on them faster then a crocodile on a gazelle drinking water by the river.

 

[Jablkon]

Since we're debating international hockey. Outside of the Big 6, I have spots #7 and #8 wide open.

Teams who should compete for the 7th and 8th spot at future World Cups:
Denmark
Slovakia
Switzerland
Germany

It seems in Europe, from what I've read/heard, Slovakia and Switzerland are the most offended by not being the 7th and 8th team. The IIHF has no jurisdiction over North American hockey. Switzerland had no guarantee of even being one of the 8 teams represented.

In my view, Denmark and Germany had as good of a chance to take the 7th and 8th spot as Switzerland and Slovakia did. Especially on North American soil. Canada loves the Flying Danes:

I am missing Latvia here

 

[Jablkon]

Even back in '10 "Some of Europe" (including Slovak players) and a NA U24 team would have offered much more star power, and top to bottom stronger teams (at least on paper) than Slovakia could have. Knowing what we know now, if the NHL had a choice between a team featuring Hossa, Chara, Cibak, Radivojevic, Jurcina, etc. or a team featuring Hossa, Chara, Kopitar, Vanek, Streit, etc., I don't think it's crazy to think the NHL would have opted for the latter.

This is all a bit of a silly hypothetical though... So I guess my bad for even bringing it up.



It all seems a bit arbitrary, doesn't it?



So why are the Czechs being kept around? They didn't beat anyone of consequence in Sochi and also lost to Switzerland. In fact both Switzerland and Slovakia earned more points than the Czech Rep. against "top6" nations.

I guess it is too early to say we are not there. This is not changing from tourney to tourney IMO. Slovakia was among top 7 for lets say 10 years (2000 - 2010) and slowly lost this position. We decreased from "medal contender" to "underdog" so far. Still we can beat top teams in WHCs. In my opinion slovak's arguments to be in WC were heavily undermined by their later WHCs performances where they, sad to say it, played terrible hockey. Even if they always heavily relied on their NHL players, possibility that even half of the team could be from their "euro team" looks like a big risk now. But this is just my distant point of view. Our slovaks friends here know better what their team is capable of....But for good of hockey, they should have a chance at least to fight for WC spot there...imo

 

[Slimmy]

I remember. I know the history of our game.

The more common underlying theme is Canadians love good hockey.

That's not really true though. I remember the World juniors in Sweden. Thousands of Canadians left the arena after Canada took a beating from the Russians in the bronze medal game. Luckily that's how I got a ticket to the final between Sweden and Finland but you could see thousands of the best seats were empty in a sold out event as a result. Canadians like hockey when their team is doing well. It's the same for all nationalities more or less, to be fair.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

 

[jj cale]

That's not really true though. I remember the World juniors in Sweden. Thousands of Canadians left the arena after Canada took a beating from the Russians in the bronze medal game. Luckily that's how I got a ticket to the final between Sweden and Finland but you could see thousands of the best seats were empty in a sold out event as a result. Canadians like hockey when their team is doing well. It's the same for all nationalities more or less, to be fair.

Well, the fact alone that they had bought thousands of seats for a junior hockey game way off in Sweden kind of backs up snipes point though.

 

[Slimmy]

Well, the fact alone that they had bought thousands of seats for a junior hockey game way off in Sweden kind of backs up snipes point though.

Not really? They went to see Canada and didn't care to see the final. If you've payed that much money to come half way around the world, why would you leave if you are that hockey crazy and love good hockey?

 

[jj cale]

Not really? They went to see Canada and didn't care to see the final. If you've payed that much money to come half way around the world, why would you leave if you are that hockey crazy and love good hockey?

Heartbroken perhaps? It happens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNEbREzUd7I

Remember this? That was in Canada, a full house going crazy about a gold medal winning goal scored by....................Sweden.

Think that happens in Sweden or any other country for a junior gold medal game not involving the host country?

Snipes is right.

 

[Slimmy]

Heartbroken perhaps? It happens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNEbREzUd7I

Remember this? That was in Canada, a full house going crazy about a gold medal winning goal scored by....................Sweden.

Think that happens in Sweden or any other country for a junior gold medal game not involving the host country?

Snipes is right.

I don't agree. The NHL playoffs had no Canadian teams this year and saw a big drop in viewership. Instead, a Canadian baseball team was stealing the headlines, if I'm not mistaken. Success grows interest. If Canada were to become more successful in soccer than Hockey you can bet that the interest in hockey would see a big drop and soccer would see a huge increase.

 

[jj cale]

I don't agree. The NHL playoffs had no Canadian teams this year and saw a big drop in viewership. Instead, a Canadian baseball team was stealing the headlines, if I'm not mistaken. Success grows interest. If Canada were to become more successful in soccer than Hockey you can bet that the interest in hockey would see a big drop and soccer would see a huge increase.

I guess so.

The real reason viewership in playoff hockey dropped off has more to do with the quality of the nhl game then no Canadian teams though. Canadians know hockey, and they know the product is bad these days. Need a Canadian team involved to watch a lot of that crap these days.

 

[Slimmy]

I guess so.

The real reason viewership in playoff hockey dropped off has more to do with the quality of the nhl game then no Canadian teams though. Canadians know hockey, and they know the product is bad these days. Need a Canadian team involved to watch a lot of that crap these days.

I don't buy that. Canadians would rather watch baseball, the arguably most boring of all major sports in NA, instead of the NHL Playoffs.. Come on.

 

[jj cale]

I don't buy that. Canadians would rather watch baseball, the arguably most boring of all major sports in NA, instead of the NHL Playoffs.. Come on.

I love baseball!!

Fantastic sport.


You just don't understand the game.

Baseball is a far more interesting and enjoyable sport to watch then many NHL games these days. And this is coming from a hockey fanatic.

 

[xxxx]

Even back in '10 "Some of Europe" (including Slovak players) and a NA U24 team would have offered much more star power, and top to bottom stronger teams (at least on paper) than Slovakia could have. Knowing what we know now, if the NHL had a choice between a team featuring Hossa, Chara, Cibak, Radivojevic, Jurcina, etc. or a team featuring Hossa, Chara, Kopitar, Vanek, Streit, etc., I don't think it's crazy to think the NHL would have opted for the latter.

This is all a bit of a silly hypothetical though... So I guess my bad for even bringing it up.

I'm not arguing for the tournament to have this format forever. However, this time around, I love it. The World Cup is here after 12 years, they are starting something new that is to be regularly every 4 years and maybe they feel this could draw more all-around attention to it, who knows. I think it's gonna be something special, and I'm convinced it's going to be very special and very exciting tournament.

So why are the Czechs being kept around? They didn't beat anyone of consequence in Sochi and also lost to Switzerland. In fact both Switzerland and Slovakia earned more points than the Czech Rep. against "top6" nations.

Nice reasoning Why stay in the win/loss category, Latvia lost only 1-2 to Canada, why we shouldn't count them as an elite hockey nation?

 

[Gary Nylund]

That's not really true though. I remember the World juniors in Sweden. Thousands of Canadians left the arena after Canada took a beating from the Russians in the bronze medal game. Luckily that's how I got a ticket to the final between Sweden and Finland but you could see thousands of the best seats were empty in a sold out event as a result. Canadians like hockey when their team is doing well. It's the same for all nationalities more or less, to be fair.

Well, the fact alone that they had bought thousands of seats for a junior hockey game way off in Sweden kind of backs up snipes point though.

Heartbroken perhaps? It happens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNEbREzUd7I

Remember this? That was in Canada, a full house going crazy about a gold medal winning goal scored by....................Sweden.

Think that happens in Sweden or any other country for a junior gold medal game not involving the host country?

Snipes is right.

My 2c:

I can see both sides of this. For many Canadians, it's Gold or bust and it wouldn't surprise me if some people bought tickets and didn't even show up when Canada didn't make it to the Gold Medal game. Once we lose the game for the Bronze though, I can see people just not wanting any more hockey at all at that point.

Then again, it kind of sucks to have a ton of people walking out on the Gold Medal game, doesn't look good for the sport and if it was me, I'd make a point of staying just to support the game and would persuade my friends to do the same. That said, if all my friends decided not to stay and head out to the bars instead, I'd be tempted join them. I think I'd stay though and hook up with my friends later, not watching Finland and Sweden play is and epic fail from a hockey standpoint as that's possibly the #1 hockey rivalry in the world.

 

[jj cale]

My 2c:

I can see both sides of this. For many Canadians, it's Gold or bust and it wouldn't surprise me if some people bought tickets and didn't even show up when Canada didn't make it to the Gold Medal game. Once we lose the game for the Bronze though, I can see people just not wanting any more hockey at all at that point.

Then again, it kind of sucks to have a ton of people walking out on the Gold Medal game, doesn't look good for the sport and if it was me, I'd make a point of staying just to support the game and would persuade my friends to do the same. That said, if all my friends decided not to stay and head out to the bars instead, I'd be tempted join them. I think I'd stay though and hook up with my friends later, not watching Finland and Sweden play is and epic fail from a hockey standpoint as that's possibly the #1 hockey rivalry in the world.

I certainly would have attended a gold medal Sweden-Finland game. I would not have missed that, not many opportunities a fella gets to attend something like that. Hell, I just wish I could get to see a game overseas for once in my life, I must confess to having always wanted to go to the Spengler Cup of all things.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

If Canada doesn't dominate this tournament I will fear for their future.

 

[jj cale]

If Canada doesn't dominate this tournament I will fear for their future.

Not as fearful as we should be of Finland beating up on everyone for the next 20 years.

 

[Canuckistani]

If Canada doesn't dominate this tournament I will fear for their future.

Winning eight in a row has to count as dominating.