Transfer: 2016 Summer transfer discussion

[cgf]

I'm not a fan of Zieler though he was in goal of my team. But play behind the crappy backline he did for so many years and then we can talk. Even Neuer had looked bad in H96's goal.

Oh I don't mean to crap on Zieler, and mediocrity was probably too strong a word, but compared to so many other german GKs & BuLi GKs; he's just un-inspiring to me. A legit BuLi GKer, but not someone who should be on our NT...I prefer a 3rd GK who's either a young kid getting a look at what a tourney w/ the NT is like, or an old vet to provide some experience for a team that has two younger goalies as their starter & backup.

Even when we account for the ****-tastic backline he's played behind...which as an Avs fan I supersize with all too much.

He's good but imo he'll never be in the conversation for the national team unless a lot of his peers get injured. I don't think many if any German fans think he's a top 5 German keeper. In his age group, MAtS, Leno, and Horn are generally more highly regarded.



I disagree. He's an extremely well-rounded keeper. He's maybe just good at playing in the box, but he's an excellent proactive sweeper and great participant in buildup, plus he's extremely consistent. Sure, some Bundesliga/German keepers surpass him in some of those areas, but the keepers who are better on the line than he is (Leno/Horn) aren't nearly as good at passing or sweeping, and the keepers who can pass better than him (Bürki/Baumann) aren't as solid in net. I'd say MAtS is more talented in every area than he is and has the potential to be the best keeper in the world, but Zieler is still a lot more mentally consistent than MAtS.

He certainly does bring excellent consistency; now that he's got so much experience; but I don't rate him as much with the ball as you do. As I don't think his utility in the buildup play is a big advantage for him over his peers. Granted that may be a further effect of the disastrous teams he's played behind, as my viewings of h96 have been limited to when they play against teams I find interesting (BVB/BMG/TSG/Werder/Mainz/Freiburg/Schalke); but his ball skills just seem to fall in line with the general the merely-solid impression I have of him than the standout-trait category.

I do like his aggression cleaning up behind the backline, but like his consistency, I think this is more a result of his greater experience that he's managed to rack up because of his early breakthrough. As he certainly wasn't much of a sweeper-keeper earlier in his career.

All in all; I just feel like his greatest strengths are the results of experience, not class. And that the less experienced but more talented keepers are capable of matching those strengths as they rack up the experience that he already has.

 

[Power Man]

Going to have to ask you to elaborate here...

His name reminded me of Commander Kallus from Star Wars rebels

 

[Bon Esprit]

Yeah, the Bundesliga isn't hurting for keepers. Their development of them is arguably close to the best right now. They have 5 or 6 guys who could feasibly play their trade at 10 or 15 of the best clubs in Europe in the near future (heck, a number of them already do).

I've seen a bit of Karius play, and I think he might have better abilities in some areas than Mignolet, but I don't know that he's clearly better. Mignolet at one point was a superior shot stopper (at least when he came over) and while I think I would concede his stopping shots down low to his side of late, that's something that can be fixed. Mignolet's problems for me over his career has been his kicking (there was a clear time under Rodgers where he couldn't do much more than hoof it down towards the midfield) and his command of the box. He never seemed to learn when to stay or go. Karius just needs more experience. He needs to work on when to go and when to stay, and he needs to hone his obvious talents.

I think he's a player who probably takes the job from him, but I don't know that he's a clear #1. The two will probably battle it out come preseason, but maybe that's the better option?

It's a value buy for what the cost is. He's going to get better and maybe his upside is higher. Maybe Mignolet plays better with a guy who can actually push him, unlike Bogdan. It's not like Mignolet is bad. He's just prone to mistakes and hasn't had a challenge in any of the time he has been here. I'm a firm believer that some goalies need a #2 who can take the job from them if they're not sharp. Karius can do that. I also don't think it hurts that he has been in England for a few seasons in the past with City, and that a few of the Liverpool scouts seem to have some in roads with a few of their former academy guys.

I just wanted to see a more experienced hand.

Well, I understand what you are saying, but I have a stupid idea:

Maybe this Klopp guy knows what he is doing. Karius is a good, solid, young goalie. Don't know how good he will be in his prime, but right now he's pretty good. I'm sure Liverpool FC and their fans won't complain in the future.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Some serious underrating of Hart in this thread.

 

[Luigi Habs]

I think Karius is a signing with lots of potential to be great for Liverpool, but as far as next season is concerned, I doubt he'd be much of a difference maker. I don't even think he's guaranteed of #1 spot, which may be just fine, maybe Klopp wants to put some pressure on Mignolet and eventually performs better but I doubt. I personally think Liverpool should have went for Sirigu. Instantly would become their #1 goalie, relatively well experienced and I'm sure he'd want to prove he's better than how PSG has treated him this season.

 

[Live in the Now]

Klopp may also think Mignolet is not beyond redemption. After seeing what Klopp has done with other players who were poorly coached (Lovren in particular has turned from a bum into a class player), I'm willing to see him do whatever it is that he wants to do and not question it for another year or two.

 

[Evilo]

Sirigu's a very good goalie. And the best PSG has on its roster. Clearly better than Trapp IMO.
Almost never makes a mistake, great on his line.

Trapp is much better in anything foot related, and he can have excellent reflexes. But his ability in the air isn't exactly stellar and more than anything, his mental lapses have lost more points to PSG than his prowess has won.
A goalie that loses more points than he wins is a big fat no.

 

[Savant]

Some serious underrating of Hart in this thread.

Not by me!

Hart was my #1 target this summer

 

[Savant]

James Pearce says Karius price tag for Liverpool is £4.7m. Steal.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-swoop-former-man-city-11341802

Get. In.

 

[Theon]

United have offered Zlatan a one-year contract with a year's option.

 

[Burner Account]

Klopp may also think Mignolet is not beyond redemption. After seeing what Klopp has done with other players who were poorly coached (Lovren in particular has turned from a bum into a class player), I'm willing to see him do whatever it is that he wants to do and not question it for another year or two.

Same. I don't think Mignolet is completely useless. I just don't think he should be your #1 if you want to be a CL club.

 

[Cin]

Kicker says Karius to Liverpool is done.

http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/...artikel_karius-mit-liverpool-einig.html?ddt=1

Very mixed feelings on this one

He's a very good keeper. Way better than what they already have.

 

[Savant]

He's a very good keeper. Way better than what they already have.

Here is my thing.

When Arsenal announced they had signed Alexis, it was during a kit launch and the Arsenal players on the stage began hugging each other out of the elation of getting a player of that caliber. This is a true story.

Liverpool should be signing a player that can elicit that kind of reaction from the team.

 

[cgf]

Here is my thing.

When Arsenal announced they had signed Alexis, it was during a kit launch and the Arsenal players on the stage began hugging each other out of the elation of getting a player of that caliber. This is a true story.

Liverpool should be signing a player that can elicit that kind of reaction from the team.

Isn't that why you're chasing Gotze?

 

[Savant]

Isn't that why you're chasing Gotze?

Liverpool need more than Gotze. Also Gotze is not in the form that Alexis was when he went to Arsenal.

As good as Karius may be, and I certainly rate him, he isn't a player who is guaranteed to move Liverpool up the table, or give them the buzz that they are a threat to.

 

[Live in the Now]

I don't know what you're getting at.

Here is my thing.

When Arsenal announced they had signed Alexis, it was during a kit launch and the Arsenal players on the stage began hugging each other out of the elation of getting a player of that caliber. This is a true story.

Liverpool should be signing a player that can elicit that kind of reaction from the team.

Are we trying to compete with Arsenal for the title of biggest player profile signed while never winning **** or is Klopp building a team to win trophies the way he did with Dortmund? Doesn't matter how big the names are. It matters how the players play together. Teams can win titles without ever signing famous players.

I bet Wenger would trade the last two seasons with Alexis for a European trophy. In a heartbeat.

 

[Burner Account]

Liverpool need more than Gotze. Also Gotze is not in the form that Alexis was when he went to Arsenal.

As good as Karius may be, and I certainly rate him, he isn't a player who is guaranteed to move Liverpool up the table, or give them the buzz that they are a threat to.

That sounds like more of a signing for the fans than for the team.

 

[Live in the Now]

That sounds like more of a signing for the fans than for the team.

Gotze fits straight into Lallana's position. I would be more than willing to see a team with Sturridge, Firmino, Coutinho, Can, Milner, Gotze all starting. There will be other players too of course, especially when Benteke is replaced. That team would compete for honors in current English football. Anyone who thinks they wouldn't underestimates Klopp and definitely overestimates the current competition. As well as the team has played in the Europa League they are still not up to Klopp's fitness standards and haven't been able to train very much. Apparently he's going to put the team through three training sessions a day during preseason to rectify this.

Firmino, Coutinho, and Can are three key, very good players who are improving and need to play every week to be able to do that. It is important for Liverpool for them to continue to improve. Buying players to put them on the bench makes that extremely difficult.

 

[Burner Account]

Gotze fits straight into Lallana's position. I would be more than willing to see a team with Sturridge, Firmino, Coutinho, Can, Milner, Gotze all starting. There will be other players too of course, especially when Benteke is replaced. That team would compete for honors in current English football. Anyone who thinks they wouldn't underestimates Klopp and definitely overestimates the current competition. As well as the team has played in the Europa League they are still not up to Klopp's fitness standards and haven't been able to train very much. Apparently he's going to put the team through three training sessions a day during preseason to rectify this.

Firmino, Coutinho, and Can are three key, very good players who are improving and need to play every week to be able to do that. It is important for Liverpool for them to continue to improve. Buying players to put them on the bench makes that extremely difficult.

Agreed on pretty much everything. The more I hear/read what Klopp has to say about transfers and his vision for the team, the less I think he will make an Alexis or Ozil type signing. It sounds like for the most part he wants to grow from within.

And I think everyone involved gets that. The M.O. is back the **** up and let Klopp do what he's doing.

 

[Live in the Now]

Agreed on pretty much everything. The more I hear/read what Klopp has to say about transfers and his vision for the team, the less I think he will make an Alexis or Ozil type signing. It sounds like for the most part he wants to grow from within.

He said the reason he wanted to come to Liverpool is because he thought they had a great squad and it was never in his mind to go somewhere else. Anyone who would think this would also be well aware of Liverpool's transfer policies. This definitely does not sound to me like somebody who will sign many famous players. Maybe Gotze, and maybe a striker if there was a reason he had to. But that's it.

 

[Burner Account]

He said the reason he wanted to come to Liverpool is because he thought they had a great squad and it was never in his mind to go somewhere else. Anyone who would think this would also be well aware of Liverpool's transfer policies. This definitely does not sound to me like somebody who will sign many famous players. Maybe Gotze, and maybe a striker if there was a reason he had to. But that's it.

I would like to see them sign a striker. Sturridge is probably the third best striker playing in England but you never know health wise. Benteke is a goner and I think in a perfect world maybe Ings would be your #9 for cup ties and league matches against lower table sides (kind of what some of us thought Rickie Lambert would be).

 

[Live in the Now]

I would like to see them sign a striker. Sturridge is probably the third best striker playing in England but you never know health wise. Benteke is a goner and I think in a perfect world maybe Ings would be your #9 for cup ties and league matches against lower table sides (kind of what some of us thought Rickie Lambert would be).

I would as well if Wednesday goes well. But if it doesn't, they have three strikers, Firmino who can also play there, and no European football, so that's fine.

Other than Milik who I think will have been scouted just like Zielinski, I don't have anyone in mind though.

 

[cgf]

Has Klopp used Coutinho as a deeper midfielder much yet? I figured that a Gundogan- or Kroos-esque move to the 8 or 6 was in his future when Klopp was announced. With Can & Milner/Henderson/Zielinski running around in front of him, and Gotze & Firmino playing off of Sturridge; that would be a team Klopp could get some really fun football out of. Don't think they'd be consistent enough to compete with Pep next season, but a top 4 return would be a realistic goal...shame Klopp's gunna shatter Sturridge into a billion little pieces.

 

[Burner Account]

I would as well if Wednesday goes well. But if it doesn't, they have three strikers, Firmino who can also play there, and no European football, so that's fine.

Other than Milik who I think will have been scouted just like Zielinski, I don't have anyone in mind though.

I've seen a rumor or two about Embolo being a target.

 

[Live in the Now]

Has Klopp used Coutinho as a deeper midfielder much yet? I figured that a Gundogan- or Kroos-esque move to the 8 or 6 was in his future when Klopp was announced. With Can & Milner/Henderson running around in front of him, and Gotze & Firmino playing off of Sturridge; that would be a team Klopp could squeeze some fun football out of. Don't think they'd be consistent enough to compete with Pep next season, but a top 4 return would be a realistic goal.

Not yet, no. He's played on the left almost every week, but Liverpool plays fairly narrow right now with Clyne and Moreno providing the width and oftentimes getting way too far forward. Can's role changes dependent on the opponent. Either he plays as a 5 or Lucas does. He's been better as a 5 than an 8. Lallana has been fairly poor as an #8/10 and that's where Gotze would fit in perfectly for me. If Gotze signed then Liverpool would have to commit to playing with 3 #10's as they've done the last few months.