2016 NHL Entry Draft Discussion.

[chipsens]

Watching U18...I have been Bitten. But not 1st pick. Jost

 

[derriko]

Ive seen a lot of flack for Brown and Gauthier.

I can see a little reason for it behind Gauthier, since we are already set on RW for a while, and he plays very similar to Ryan who he projects to be (weaks man of course) + the fact that the Sens could use more playmakers as goal scoring isnt a problem. 41 goals and 16 assists is a very unique stat line.

But Brown? Good hands, massive frame, deceptively good speed. Will play in the dirty areas albeit not overly tough. Whats the downside here? That he's overrated because of his size advantage in juniors? Limited offensive upside? Sounds like a solid mid round first to me (Ive never seen him play but one game when I was checking Sergachev out)

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Ive seen a lot of flack for Brown and Gauthier.

I can see a little reason for it behind Gauthier, since we are already set on RW for a while, and he plays very similar to Ryan who he projects to be (weaks man of course) + the fact that the Sens could use more playmakers as goal scoring isnt a problem. 41 goals and 16 assists is a very unique stat line.

But Brown? Good hands, massive frame, deceptively good speed. Will play in the dirty areas albeit not overly tough. Whats the downside here? That he's overrated because of his size advantage in juniors? Limited offensive upside? Sounds like a solid mid round first to me (Ive never seen him play but one game when I was checking Sergachev out)

NHL Central scouting has Brown ranked 7th in NA. That would put him 10th. He will climb more rankings as we approach the draft IMO. He is one of a few intriguing players that could be available to the Sens. A good case can be made for him.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

I think most people are in favour of Brown. I know I'd be excited if we called his name in June. He seems to favour passing a little too much but he is a great playmaker. At 6'6 with his package his skills, I'm more than a little intrigued with his upside.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Sens Draft History
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00007328.html

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

What? This team absolutely needs a centre.

Take a look at the last 10 cup-winning teams.

How many of them had Turris/Zib quality centres on the first line? (rhetorical question - the answer is none).

If we won the lottery and passed on Matthews, I would get a bottle of whiskey, find a dark room, and sit in the corner for a long, long time.

Totally agree. Every NHL contender needs a bevy of centers, and ideally three scoring line centers, unless you have one of truly top elite centers in the league.

Right now we don't have a truly elite center, we have one above average 2nd line center, and we have a few young centers that might or might not end up better than above average 3rd line centers. We definitely could use another one (or two).

Plus, centers shift to the wing very easily (but wingers don't shift to center). For instance, Smith, Pageau and Lazar can all play wing, and Smith and Lazar are most likely better suited there.

 

[Sensinitis]

What? This team absolutely needs a centre.

Take a look at the last 10 cup-winning teams.

How many of them had Turris/Zib quality centres on the first line? (rhetorical question - the answer is none).

If we won the lottery and passed on Matthews, I would get a bottle of whiskey, find a dark room, and sit in the corner for a long, long time.

Totally agree. Every NHL contender needs a bevy of centers, and ideally three scoring line centers, unless you have one of truly top elite centers in the league.

Right now we don't have a truly elite center, we have one above average 2nd line center, and we have a few young centers that might or might not end up better than above average 3rd line centers. We definitely could use another one (or two).

Plus, centers shift to the wing very easily (but wingers don't shift to center). For instance, Smith, Pageau and Lazar can all play wing, and Smith and Lazar are most likely better suited there.

Okay, I think there was a misunderstanding here.

I'm not saying we should pass on Matthews if we win the lottery

That would be terrible drafting (not going BPA), and asset management.

If we get Matthews we'd have to trade one of Turris,Zibanejad,Pageau (probably Zibanejad imo).

All I'm saying is that our center depth is very good.

Both of you seem to have underrated our center depth, as evidenced by phrases such as "we have one above average 2nd line C and a few young Cs that might not end up better than above average 3rd line Cs" (Dr. Sens), and how many Cup teams have "Turis,Zbad quality C's on their first line" (Jerico).

First of all, NONE of our centers are done developing. NONE. Not even Turris.

Second, the Rags went to the Finals with Brassard,Stepan and IDK who on the 3rd line. Our 1-2-3 punch is better than that, and has the potential to be even better than it already is (Zbad is still improving, Turris too, Pageau too).

Lastly, we only have one above average 2nd line C? And the rest are 3Cs? Omg. You can't be serious.

Turris is a 1st line C. Anyway you cut it. Look at his stats the past 2 healthy seasons. 25G 65+ point center. Lots of teams DON'T have a center like Turris.

Zibanejad is a good 2nd line C RIGHT NOW. Two time 20G scorer and officially a 50 point C starting this year. He's 23. He could EASILY reach Turris' level. If he does, we have TWO 65 POINT CENTERS.

That's not good enough? Seriously?

Toews = 65 points
Animisov = 45 points

Kopitar = 75 points
Carter = 60 points

We're in line with those, and our 3rd line C Pageau is better than what those championship teams have to offer. Pageau is a 30-40 point C who can move up in the lineup and produce. That's rare. And he shuts down the opposition. Lazar is still growing as well.

Your lack of faith in the team is disturbing. We're turning the corner and you both should be much more optimistic than you are. Don't be blinded by the fact that Turris wasn't there all season. This team is still growing.

And add to that the fact that we have Karlsson on the backend who is pretty much a center who can play the whole ice, he adds a crucial element of offense. You gotta look at the context of the whole team.

Sens potential:
Turris 65 points
Zibanejad 65 points
Pageau 35-40 points
Karlsson 80 points

I'm saying that we don't NEED a center, but obviously if we get the #1 OV pick we have no choice but to pick Matthews.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

Okay, I think there was a misunderstanding here.

...

I'm saying that we don't NEED a center, but obviously if we get the #1 OV pick we have no choice but to pick Matthews.

The point about centers is getting the quality of centers to be a true contender. Not to be in line with an average NHL team. So when I talk about having a great 1-2 punch at center, I'm not talking about good enough to be argued as average in the league.

Turris is definitely a #1 center in terms of being one of the top 30 centers in the league, but the point is that if he is your #1 center, you are already behind the 8 ball because he is not one of the top 15 centers in the league by any means of measurement or subjectivity, so when you go up against the rest of the top teams whose #1 centers range from Crosby, Datsyuk, Bergeron, Giroux, Stamkos, Toews, Kopitar, Getzlaf, Thornton etc, you have to be better every where else. Not easy.

Which brings us to our #2 center. While Zbad has garnered enough PP points over the last two years to just crack the 50 point threshold, from an overall impact on the game perspective, he is a below average 2nd line center at best. And when your 1st line center is already over his head going head-to-head against the best centers in the world come playoff time, you hope you have the advantage on the 2nd line. And so it goes.

He may prove me wrong, but Zbad is a lot like Fisher and Vermette. Good enough to be a top 6 center on a losing team, but if he is one of your top 2 centers, you are not winning a cup. That has been the case with Fisher and Vermette through their careers. They've put up terrific numbers at times when given quality ice time, but they are not top 6 centers for a true contender. It's no surprise that when we made it to the cup, we added another center so we had great depth (Comrie) and we still ended up losing because we were essentially a one line team, despite having Comrie, Fisher and Vermette at center behind Spezza.

There are some exceptions to the elite 1-2 punch center formula that wins cup, but very few. The Rangers are an example of a team trying to capture an alternative formula and falling short. Many teams have come close and failed, while only a few (New Jersey a few times, and Anaheim once) have done it. And both of those teams were ridiculously stacked in other areas with hall of famers.

Of note, Kane is the real center on that Chicago line. A lot has been written on it already, but he roams everywhere with little defensive responsibility (by design of putting him on the wing), but once Chicago gets the puck, he is for all intents and purposes the center in terms of carrying the puck and dictating play.

Is Pageau, Lazar or even White going to elevate play above Zbad considerably? maybe White will. Maybe he won't be as good. And even if he is, centers are the most versatile forwards - they can easily move to the wing.

So if you get a chance to get an elite skilled center around the top 10 in the draft, you take him, unless another player is that much better overall. So if Jost or Keller or Brown are someone our scouts love, that last thing you do is veto for a position pick, especially when we have below average 1-2 centers right now. That's the point.

 

[Sensinitis]

Agree to disagree. I agree with your closing point, but I strongly disagree with all the rest.

I wasn't talking about average in the league. If you read my post I gave comparisons between LA and the Hawks compared to the potential of our team. Since when are LA and the Hawks average?

We have fundamental differences in opinion. I can't argue while that's the case. In particular, Zbad is definitely not like Fisher or Vermette. He will be much better. He's what they were in their prime RIGHT NOW, imo.

Another one is you calling Kane a center. A center is the player that is supposed to be backchecking and has defensive responsibility, by definition. That's definitely not Patty Kane. Just because he roams that doesn't make him a center. That's just his style of play. Anisimov is by all counts the center on the line.

We'll see what the future holds Dr Sens! Cheers

 

[Jerrico]

Another one is you calling Kane a center. A center is the player that is supposed to be backchecking and has defensive responsibility, by definition. That's definitely not Patty Kane. Just because he roams that doesn't make him a center.

And add to that the fact that we have Karlsson on the backend who is pretty much a center who can play the whole ice

I'm getting some mixed messages here...

No offence, but claiming that our current centres are roughly equal to the centres on LA and Chicago's cup winning teams is beyond generous. You cannot use points to make this argument. Even though they put up comparable points (even this is a generous statement), Toews and kopitar are on a whole different level than Turris. Your best example was New York, and they didn't even win the cup.

2015 - Toews
2014 - Kopitar
2013 - Toews
2012 - Kopitar
2011 - Bergeron
2010 - Toews
2009 - Crosby - Malkin
2008 - Zetterberg - Datsyuk
2007 - Getzlaf
2006 - Staal
2004 - Lecavalier

A combo of Turris - Zibanejad is just not going to cut it, regardless of future "growth" (most NHL players peak offensively in their early twenties). I admire your optimism, but I just can't get behind it. We currently have an average group of NHL centres, and based on history, we'll need to upgrade if we ever want to win a cup.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The point about centers is getting the quality of centers to be a true contender. Not to be in line with an average NHL team. So when I talk about having a great 1-2 punch at center, I'm not talking about good enough to be argued as average in the league.

I hear ya.

Turris is definitely a #1 center in terms of being one of the top 30 centers in the league, but the point is that if he is your #1 center, you are already behind the 8 ball because he is not one of the top 15 centers in the league by any means of measurement or subjectivity, so when you go up against the rest of the top teams whose #1 centers range from Crosby, Datsyuk, Bergeron, Giroux, Stamkos, Toews, Kopitar, Getzlaf, Thornton etc, you have to be better every where else. Not easy.

Agree completely

Which brings us to our #2 center. While Zbad has garnered enough PP points over the last two years to just crack the 50 point threshold, from an overall impact on the game perspective, he is a below average 2nd line center at best. And when your 1st line center is already over his head going head-to-head against the best centers in the world come playoff time, you hope you have the advantage on the 2nd line. And so it goes.

Agree completely

Is Pageau, Lazar or even White going to elevate play above Zbad considerably? maybe White will. Maybe he won't be as good. And even if he is, centers are the most versatile forwards - they can easily move to the wing.

So if you get a chance to get an elite skilled center around the top 10 in the draft, you take him, unless another player is that much better overall. So if Jost or Keller or Brown are someone our scouts love, that last thing you do is veto for a position pick, especially when we have below average 1-2 centers right now. That's the point.

Good patiently educating post. Love is blind

 

[Sensinitis]

Lol @SensAnarchy not responding to what I'm saying and just agreeing with Dr Sens

And jerrico I was talkin about POTENTIAL. I didnt say right now. Jesus, it's like people don't realize how young our team is.

Like you said, we're above average for centers. What if they get even better? lol, do you not see my point or you're just avoiding it for fun?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Lol @SensAnarchy not responding to what I'm saying and just agreeing with Dr Sens

And jerrico I was talkin about POTENTIAL. I didnt say right now. Jesus, it's like people don't realize how young our team is.

Like you said, we're above average for centers. What if they get even better? lol, do you not see my point or you're just avoiding it for fun?

Sorry I thought Dr Sens responded to what you were saying and said it well. I do agree with his points vs yours. Re: Turris and Zibanejad and our need for an upgrade at Centre. Is the way I responded not acceptable. What would you have like to me to have done?

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

Agree to disagree. I agree with your closing point, but I strongly disagree with all the rest.

I wasn't talking about average in the league. If you read my post I gave comparisons between LA and the Hawks compared to the potential of our team. Since when are LA and the Hawks average?

We have fundamental differences in opinion. I can't argue while that's the case. In particular, Zbad is definitely not like Fisher or Vermette. He will be much better. He's what they were in their prime RIGHT NOW, imo.

Another one is you calling Kane a center. A center is the player that is supposed to be backchecking and has defensive responsibility, by definition. That's definitely not Patty Kane. Just because he roams that doesn't make him a center. That's just his style of play. Anisimov is by all counts the center on the line.

We'll see what the future holds Dr Sens! Cheers

Yeah, I'm not ignorant of your point on potential. Our group of young centers is intriguing and you may yet be right on Zbad. I don't quite see him turning the corner into the two-way force we need him to be, but I could be wrong on him long-term. But at the same age Jeff Carter scored 46 goals. Do you Zbad doing that?

As to your comparison to LA centers, let's look at that. Kopitar's production has been that of a 70+ point center in 6 of the last 8 full season while being a Selke nominee along the way. Turris is a long way from this. He has also shown he can raise his game in the playoffs. Meanwhile, Carter at Turris' age was coming off three seasons of between 33 and 40 goals, with an 80 point season in there. Over the past 4 seasons, while his production is down, has been a 25 goal-60+ point pace, which is basically a career year for Turris at this point. Carter's defensive game has also been top notch since his early days in Philly, where he always was a top PKer. Basically, Kopitar and Carter both had produced more by Turris age (by a fair margin) and are also bigger, stronger and better two-way players (check the Selke votes for both over the years).

Turris is 26 and has one 60 point season under his belt. Keep in mind most player's production peaks at 25-27. He is what he is at this point, which is a really solid two-way center, but someone could certainly make the argument Carter is a better player now (see Team Canada), let alone Kopitar.

I could dissect the comparisons across other teams similarly.

I get your point on 'potential' but bird in the hand rules the day, and I could go through almost every team in our division to talk about the 'potential' of their young centers versus ours, and we would hardly look like the team with the brightest future.

 

[Sensinitis]

Sorry I thought Dr Sens responded to what you were saying and said it well. I do agree with his points vs yours. Re: Turris and Zibanejad and our need for an upgrade at Centre. Is the way I responded not acceptable. What would you have like to me to have done?

No worries.

I just found it amusing that you dismissed the points that I brought up against your own, and instead decided to quote and +1 the points that Dr Sens brought up that you agree with.

That's not how I operate during a discussion personally, but it's fine!

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

No worries.

I just found it amusing that you dismissed the points that I brought up against your own, and instead decided to quote and +1 the points that Dr Sens brought up that you agree with.

That's not how I operate during a discussion personally, but it's fine!

I must have missed something. You were bringing up points against my points. Did not realize. At this point I am not sure what points you are referring to. I was not quoted by you. I lose track

 

[Sensinitis]

We're starting to gain a common ground here

But at the same age Jeff Carter scored 46 goals. Do you Zbad doing that?

... except this. Does that really matter? He didn't even do that with the Kings. That is completely off-topic imo, it's not relevant to the point that Zbad still has lots of room to grow.

As to your comparison to LA centers, let's look at that. Kopitar's production has been that of a 70+ point center in 6 of the last 8 full season while being a Selke nominee along the way. Turris is a long way from this. He has also shown he can raise his game in the playoffs. Meanwhile, Carter at Turris' age was coming off three seasons of between 33 and 40 goals, with an 80 point season in there. Over the past 4 seasons, while his production is down, has been a 25 goal-60+ point pace, which is basically a career year for Turris at this point. Carter's defensive game has also been top notch since his early days in Philly, where he always was a top PKer. Basically, Kopitar and Carter both had produced more by Turris age (by a fair margin) and are also bigger, stronger and better two-way players (check the Selke votes for both over the years).

There might be a slight misconception here.

I was saying that RIGHT NOW, Kopitar is about a 75 point center, and Carter is about a 60 point center.

I really don't care what Carter has done before. When the Kings won the Cup, so while they were busy being the championship team that you were mentioning in your initial post, Carter NEVER TOPPED 62 POINTS. Doesn't matter what he did in Philly. We're talking about the centers on the championship team Kings right now, that was the point.

So if I tell you that Turris is a 65 point two way center and that Zbad can be the same, I'm not saying that's better than what the Kings had when they won, I'm saying it's very solid and that if you solely look at points, it's obviously not on the same tier, but it's very respectable compared to one of the top teams of the last 4 years. And even if you don't look only at points, both Turris and Zbad have very respectable defensive games.

The other important point being dismissed in all this is Pageau. He's a better 3C than most teams have in the league. He's an elite 3rd line C. That's not insignificant. It's a very important thing to consider. The Kings had Stoll back in the day, but not a lot of championship teams had as much DEPTH as we have.

Essentially, the point I'm trying to make is concerning the DEPTH we have, and how strong that depth can be if our young centers improve, which is still very much possible, especially for Zbad who as we all know has not reached his peak, and that much is very evident to the casual fan.

I'm also a strong believer that Turris has room to improve. If he gets stronger he can reach another level, imo. He's already a 65 point center. What if he gets better? But that's just my opinion. I believe that if he gains some muscle and strength without losing too much speed, he can become even more dangerous. And I think that given his career trajectory, I'm not that far off in terms of my "prediction" or "intuition", it's pretty logical really. This season when he was healthy he was at a 40G 70PT pace. I'm not saying that's what he'll be, but with a pretty hefty sample size, Turris reached that pace this season. That is grounds for optimism concerning Turris' potential growth still.

Turris is 26 and has one 60 point season under his belt. Keep in mind most player's production peaks at 25-27. He is what he is at this point, which is a really solid two-way center, but someone could certainly make the argument Carter is a better player now (see Team Canada), let alone Kopitar.

Turris has 58 points and 64 points in his past two healthy seasons. Jeff Carter, on the championship team Kings, reached 50 and 62 points during those SAME years. The Kings won the Cup with that production from their second C.

Carter is their 2nd C you say? Well, you're right. He is. Turris is our 1st C.

It's a good thing Turris produces better than Carter, because if Zbad grows his game and becomes a SECOND 65 point two way center for this team, then the fact that the Kings have Kopitar as their #1C doesn't look so bad in comparison to our team if we have Zbad backing up Turris with the same production of about 65 points.

You see where I'm getting at? Our centers are very good. Imagine we add another top-3 winger? Our offense is on point. Very much so. We were 8th in goals scored and that was without Turris and MacArthur and with some players still growing their games.

And again, behind all that is Pageau. He's our tertiary scoring threat. And he's a big one. Like I said, having him backing up Turris and Zibanejad, in their primes, is great depth. This is the basis of my rhetoric.

I get your point on 'potential' but bird in the hand rules the day, and I could go through almost every team in our division to talk about the 'potential' of their young centers versus ours, and we would hardly look like the team with the brightest future.

Last thing here, I agree.

The only thing I want to nuance is that no, there aren't many teams that had a 22 and 23 year old center playing second line and at times first line for their team (and within the playoff team that we had last year) who produced at a 20 goal 50 point pace. That's what Zbad did.

And if ever you do find a similar player in a similar role with similar production to Zbad, does that player have as much room to grow? Did that player not train for 2 summers in a row? Does that player have the physical package that Zbad has? Does that player have a MERE 4 YEARS OF HIS WHOLE LIFE on North American ice? I doubt it.

As you can imagine, all those factors I listed are factors that are favourable to my point that Zbad won't top out as a 20 goal 50-55 point center. That's what he is now. He can be a 25-30 goal 60-65 point two way physical center, and all those factors prove that he's trending towards that.

He may or may not get there, but that's a whole different question. I'm talking about what we have now, and what it can, very likely, become. I'm not hoping for Lazar to become a PPG center here.

I'm being realistic, so yeah. If you disagree, that's fine. I just laid out what's in my head though, and that's my assessment as to this team's depth at center and what it can become.

I'd still take Auston Matthews though

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

...

Last thing on Turris production and Carter - take a look at Carter's points per 60 minutes over the last two seasons. They are WAY better than Turris or Zbad (and actually better than Kopitar in certain years). It's not even close. Turris gets more points overall because of PP time, which Carter sees a lot less of as a #2 center. Kopitar is obviously the best of all these centers production wise, and this is while being a finalize for the Selke. If you take a closer look, you'll see why they really help make LA pretty formidable as a 1-2 punch.

Moving on, you're actually touching on the other less frequently used Stanley Cup formula - win a cup with four REALLY good centers based on depth and hitting teams in waves. I've debated this approach with buddies over many a beer, but the reality is I've only been an advocate of this out of having no other choice. The idea of winning a cup this way has only been done only a few times over the last 40 years, so it's very difficult to pull off (and typically as a one-off).

As noted, the Rangers have tried this route, but I think the Eric Staal trade essentially shows they didn't believe in hanging their hat on Brassard and Stepan as a 1-2 (even though they are loading lines right now at times). They are trying this with one of the best goalies of this generation, and arguably the best 6 d-men in the league. Adding Staal at this stage doesn't give them a 1-2 elite punch either, but a bit more depth to make it happen. A bit of a desperate move though, as most can see their window closing.

The two teams to achieve it in my mind over the last 20 years:
Ana '07: McDonald, Getzlaf, Pahlsson, Niedermeyer
NJ '01: Arnott, Gomez, Holik, Madden

NJ did it with a hall of famer in net, and two hall of famers in Stevens and Niedermeyer on D playing half the game each.
Anaheim did it with a great goalie, and again, two hall of famers in Pronger and Niedermeyer playing half the game. Plus, Selanne on that first line

Can we replicate it? It's possible I suppose, but we'd need Anderson to take it up another notch, and we'd likely need to add another hall of famer on D, while HOPING Pageau and Lazar mature beyond their years sooner rather than later. All that for the chance to perhaps catch lightning in a bottle like two teams in the last 20 years have. Tough one.

On this note, it's one of the reasons I've actually advocated the idea of going after Stamkos. It would be a longshot, but selling him on the idea of playing with Stone and Karlsson for the next 5+ years might have some merit. Certainly from the team's perspective, having Stamkos and Turris 1-2 would give us all sorts of options throughout the forward units.

A pipe dream perhaps, but probably more realistic than trying to win a cup with Turris and Zbad as our top two centers. And winning the cup is what it's all about, right?

 

[Sensinitis]

I think if you surround our centers with enough talent, we're good enough. Hoffman,Stone,Ryan,Landeskog(for example, if we get an extra top forward),Smith,MacArthur,possibly White is enough depth on the wing to overcome the fictional "lack" the Sens would have at center, imo.

And I think that the Hawks are another example. And they're the best example because they're the undisputed best team of the past 5 years. They won the Cup multiple times with Toews at center, and Richards/Handzsus as their 2Cs.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

I think if you surround our centers with enough talent, we're good enough. Hoffman,Stone,Ryan,Landeskog(for example, if we get an extra top forward),Smith,MacArthur,possibly White is enough depth on the wing to overcome the fictional "lack" the Sens would have at center, imo.

And I think that the Hawks are another example. And they're the best example because they're the undisputed best team of the past 5 years. They won the Cup multiple times with Toews at center, and Richards/Handzsus as their 2Cs.

Well, hard to point to Richards/ Handzus as the #2 center without noting they have the likely Hart Trophy winner, and former playoff MVP, Kane on that line. It's sort of like Anaheim having Selanne on a line that year.

And it doesn't typically work.

Washington tried putting Ovi on a separate line as Backstrom and it didn't work. Only now that Kuznetsov has arrived as a true 2nd elite center.

Kane really is different as the true playmaking winger. The only other forward I'd put in that category is likely Jamie Benn.

But for us, I'll admit Stone is a bit of the X factor. If he can raise his game to yet another level - into the stratosphere of Benn or Kane as one of the league's top forwards - then we might be able to get away with a Zbad at center, with Stone as his wingman making that line elite. That will leave a line with Turris and a couple of elite wingers (Hoffman and Ryan would do) to be the other big line.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Well, hard to point to Richards/ Handzus as the #2 center without noting they have the likely Hart Trophy winner, and former playoff MVP, Kane on that line. It's sort of like Anaheim having Selanne on a line that year.

And it doesn't typically work.

Washington tried putting Ovi on a separate line as Backstrom and it didn't work. Only now that Kuznetsov has arrived as a true 2nd elite center.

Kane really is different as the true playmaking winger. The only other forward I'd put in that category is likely Jamie Benn.

But for us, I'll admit Stone is a bit of the X factor. If he can raise his game to yet another level - into the stratosphere of Benn or Kane as one of the league's top forwards - then we might be able to get away with a Zbad at center, with Stone as his wingman making that line elite. That will leave a line with Turris and a couple of elite wingers (Hoffman and Ryan would do) to be the other big line.

You could look at Ottawa as a unique situation as well and point to Karlsson like you did with Kane and Chicago. Karlsson will pretty much out produce 98% of the Cs in this league who would be leading their team in scoring.

I agree with the consensus here that you need to be strong down the middle but Stone and Karlsson lessen the need for a true elite top 10 C. If Turris can be the great two way force we saw early in the year and Zibanejad can grow into a 30 goal scorer, we may be set.

 

[Sensinitis]

Karlsson/Stone/Hoffman/Turris/Zibanejad/Ryan is yummy. 6 very nice players. Then you have Smith/Pageau/MacArthur/Lazar/Ceci/Phaneuf that can get healthy points.

If there's just another top-3 or top-6 forward added in there, the depth would be incredible. There's a chance that if we get a top LW, MacArthur can be playing on the 4th line with Lazar. IDK, I find that intriguing.

 

[SixthSens]

The more I think about it, as long as we stay at 12 I really want Keller.

We really need a player with high end skill up front.

 

[BondraTime]

The more I think about it, as long as we stay at 12 I really want Keller.

We really need a player with high end skill up front.

Definitely. Whether it be Keller/Jost/whoever, we need another game breaking forward. We need our own version of 2002-2009 Marty Havlat. I used to love being able to throw Havlat out on the 2nd or 3rd line and watch him create his own chances against the lesser competition.

 

[BonkTastic]

We need our own version of 2002-2009 Marty Havlat.

Minus the part where Havlat's groin is made of a thin slurry of loose sticks and mud, yes. I am in agreement.