Post-Game Talk: 2016 NHL Draft

[GetFocht]

I see no room for Dineen in the Canucks future. Canucks quota of small offensive defecation is full with Subban and Stecher.

 

[MS]

Ron Delorme is not the "head scout". Judd Brackett is the Director of Amateur Scouting, replacing Eric Crawford who was fired last year in the great purge of Gillis loyalists.

Delorme is the 'Chief Amateur Scout' and was sitting in a very prominent position at our draft table, close (next?) to Benning.

 

[timw33]

Delorme is the 'Chief Amateur Scout' and was sitting in a very prominent position at our draft table, close (next?) to Benning.

He was sitting on Benning's lap, IIRC.

 

[banme*]

I see no room for Dineen in the Canucks future. Canucks quota of small offensive defecation is full with Subban and Stecher.

Nice autocorrect.

 

[VanJack]

The more I let that sink in the more ecstatic I a with our draft. Have you seen Sokolov play??He is a an overweight prima donna - Dineen - smurf, Tkachuk one speed and although I have a soft spot for Ronning definitely long shot over a player like McKenzie. A year ago nobody was talking about olsen or gaudette - give it time people. I am pleased with this draft especially with no second or fourth .

Good points there....Gaudette and Olson have already way exceeded expectations, and Lockwood looking like another....Demko a second-rounder; Tryamkin was a third-rounder and Subban a fourth...if you can mine a couple of nuggets out of the later rounds in every draft who can eventually step up and play in the NHL, you're ahead of the curve....have to admit for all the crap Jimbo takes on these boards, the drafting has definitely improved imo.

 

[Bubbles]

LOL Really fun reading through this thread, plus I'm bored.

There's still hope for Juolevi and Lockwood, but man it's weird to see a draft where not a single player we've drafted has played an NHL game.

 

[Hansen]

LOL Really fun reading through this thread, plus I'm bored.

There's still hope for Juolevi and Lockwood, but man it's weird to see a draft where not a single player we've drafted has played an NHL game.

by the 3rd worst team in the league nonetheless

 

[Bubbles]

Ya their ability to recycle assets from expiring or cap crunch contracts into draft picks into young, ELC talent is a thing of beauty.

Instead we hang on to expiring vets and lose them for nothing, then replace them with expensive contracts acquired with our few picks and prospects, which limits our ability to get lucky at the draft and bring in our own, cost-controlled, home grown talent. And then the cycle resets and here we are with a 28th place cap-crunched team that just finished with 2 picks in the top 100.

We are a unicorn in the NHL but definitely not in a good way.

I'm laughing and crying at the same time...this is so true and continues to be true with Benning in charge.

 

[elitepete]

LOL Really fun reading through this thread, plus I'm bored.

There's still hope for Juolevi and Lockwood, but man it's weird to see a draft where not a single player we've drafted has played an NHL game.

It was a pathetic effort by our pathetic management. Dumbo went out of his way to draft this absolute gem 5th overall.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Whole draft was trash, as was obvious immediately, by practically everyone.

Pathetic for a professional organization.

 

[VanJack]

As the 2016 draft unfolded you could almost hear Canuck HF posters pleading with Jimbo to draft Matthew Tkachuk.

It says something when casual hockey fans have a better handle on the top end of the draft, than most of the Canuck scouts.

 

[Bitz and Bites]

Some gold in there but it appears that the pessimism was warranted like a lot of us predicted.
Its unacceptable for the third worst team in the league to have a poor draft like that then turn around and sign Brother Louie to a massive bloated contract that’s been killing the team since the day it was signed.

I doubt Joulevi plays an NHL game as a Canuck if Rathbone signs this year unless we get destroyed by injuries on the back end at some point.

 

[rypper]

2016 was such an awful year for this team.

 

[VanJack]

Canucks couldn't win the draft lottery when they were legitimately one of the worst teams in hockey. And 12.5% odds if they lose to Wild means that it still qualifies as the longest of long-shots.

To put it into perspective, there's close to an 88 percent chance they 'won't' win the draft lottery. Still, it's nice to at least think about it for awhile. It's the reason why people buy lottery tickets, I guess.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Canucks couldn't win the draft lottery when they were legitimately one of the worst teams in hockey. And 12.5% odds if they lose to Wild means that it still qualifies as the longest of long-shots.

To put it into perspective, there's close to an 88 percent chance they 'won't' win the draft lottery. Still, it's nice to at least think about it for awhile. It's the reason why people buy lottery tickets, I guess.

12.5% is still better odds than they’ve had during this recent history.

 

[CantStoptheBrock]

As the 2016 draft unfolded you could almost hear Canuck HF posters pleading with Jimbo to draft Matthew Tkachuk.

It says something when casual hockey fans have a better handle on the top end of the draft, than most of the Canuck scouts.

Canucks were all in on Pierre Luc Dubois; thought he would be available, and like everyone else, were stunned when Columbus took him. Of course, this was completely unprofessional to not anticipate a surprise pick, and the Canucks own that. Then it came down to Juolevi versus Sergachev, and Canucks were wary of drafting a Russian that high.

Tkachuk was categorically never going to be drafted because of longstanding acrimony between Linden and Keith Tkachuk, dating back to their NHLPA bad blood. As Tkachuk said, the Canucks didn't show an ounce of interest in him, and that has nothing to do with the quality of the player.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Canucks were all in on Pierre Luc Dubois; thought he would be available, and like everyone else, were stunned when Columbus took him. Of course, this was completely unprofessional to not anticipate a surprise pick, and the Canucks own that. Then it came down to Juolevi versus Sergachev, and Canucks were wary of drafting a Russian that high.

Tkachuk was categorically never going to be drafted because of longstanding acrimony between Linden and Keith Tkachuk, dating back to their NHLPA bad blood. As Tkachuk said, the Canucks didn't show an ounce of interest in him, and that has nothing to do with the quality of the player.

I don't know how much weight this should be given. You still have a GM and owner who are removed from this relationship, and the owner can (and has in the past) overrule this type of decision.

Juolevi was picked because the Canucks drafted for need (defence), not for the best player available. It's obvious when you look at how high Benning was on Juolevi, which was corroborated by insiders on how fixated he was on Juolevi (going as far as comparing him to Lidstrom).

If Benning had a better eye for talent, we would have ended up with McAvoy/Sergachev/Chychrun. I wanted Tkachuk, but if we opted to go for a defenceman, Chychrun was my guy. It's too bad Benning totally screwed up his evaluation of these prospects.

 

[VanJack]

The really sad thing is that Juolevi was probably a 'logical pick', given the tragic state of the Canucks blueline at the time.

But that's what often happens when you draft for 'need' rather than simply the BPA.

 

[UK Canuck]

never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever draft for need

 

[Tonystretcher]

I don't know how much weight this should be given. You still have a GM and owner who are removed from this relationship, and the owner can (and has in the past) overrule this type of decision.

Juolevi was picked because the Canucks drafted for need (defence), not for the best player available. It's obvious when you look at how high Benning was on Juolevi, which was corroborated by insiders on how fixated he was on Juolevi (going as far as comparing him to Lidstrom).

If Benning had a better eye for talent, we would have ended up with McAvoy/Sergachev/Chychrun. I wanted Tkachuk, but if we opted to go for a defenceman, Chychrun was my guy. It's too bad Benning totally screwed up his evaluation of these prospects.

I would agree that the Linden/Tkachuk relationship was not a major factor. I know that they were spooked by Tkachuk’s skating and didn’t think his game would translate. I also wouldn’t blame them for passing on McAvoy as he wasn’t on anyone’s radar to go top 5. I think it came down to Juolevi vs. Sergachev and they way overvalued Juolevi’s WJC performance. Just poor talent evaluation

 

[CantStoptheBrock]

The really sad thing is that Juolevi was probably a 'logical pick', given the tragic state of the Canucks blueline at the time.

But that's what often happens when you draft for 'need' rather than simply the BPA.

While that's a nice strategy in the abstract, it doesn't work out in reality. Of course teams have to consider need occasionally or they'd end up like the Oilers with a bunch of high-end skilled forwards. People then say well you can trade those forwards for defencemen, or vice versa, but look at Edmonton doing that with Hall, or Nashville doing that with Jones; the value you get back is usually gonna not be totally fair. Of course, the Canucks wanted to draft Dubois most of all, and thus the narrative that they were drafting purely for "need" doesn't hold up.

While Juolevi of course was a scouting failure, there's a lot of hindsight going on in the evaluation of this draft pick. People scream BPA and yet players like McAvoy and Chychrun weren't consensus BPA at all, as evidenced by their fall far past pick 5.

The Canucks, after surprisingly losing out on Dubois and being simply unwilling to draft Tkachuk due to Linden being President, actually decided to rely on the scouting consensus or Best Defenceman Available in drafting Juolevi. Almost all OHL scouts believed him to be the best defenceman of that draft: https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/scouts-like-juolevi-chychrun-nhl-draft. Of course, I'm expecting a bunch of alternate rankings to be posted, but the quotes in that article from actual OHL scouts are difficult to ignore.

So really, the Juolevi pick is an argument against BPA. And though he certainly wasn't the right choice, his career has also been slammed by injuries and mental health struggles that couldn't have been anticipated at the time of the pick. So the pick has progressed from a mistake to a catastrophe, and obviously the wolves have caught the scent of blood...

 

[VanJack]

Always amazed at the 'revisionist' history when it comes to Juolevi. He was trending backwards almost from the day he was drafted, and long before he was hit by injuries. His draft-plus one year with London was more than just a 'mild disappointment'.

He came to the Canucks training camp next season, woefully unprepared for the NHL or even the AHL--and ended up back in Finland. And he's still the only guy picked in the top-15 of the 2016 draft who's never played an NHL game. And his debut might even come next season, if ever.

I have no idea why the Canucks picked him instead of Matthew Tkachuk. If it was Linden's call because of a past history with his father Keith, then he deserved to walk the plank as team president.

Since 2016, Jimbo has been trying to load up with agitating, physical forwards who can score. So he overpays for guys like Roussel, Beagle, Schaller and Ferland as UFA's.

And he had one of the best fall into his lap in the 2016 draft, but dropped the ball.

 

[UK Canuck]

Always amazed at the 'revisionist' history when it comes to Juolevi. He was trending backwards almost from the day he was drafted, and long before he was hit by injuries. His draft-plus one year with London was more than just a 'mild disappointment'.

He came to the Canucks training camp next season, woefully unprepared for the NHL or even the AHL--and ended up back in Finland. And he's still the only guy picked in the top-15 of the 2016 draft who's never played an NHL game. And his debut might even come next season, if ever.

I have no idea why the Canucks picked him instead of Matthew Tkachuk. If it was Linden's call because of a past history with his father Keith, then he deserved to walk the plank as team president.

Since 2016, Jimbo has been trying to load up with agitating, physical forwards who can score. So he overpays for guys like Roussel, Beagle, Schaller and Ferland as UFA's.

And he had one of the best fall into his lap in the 2016 draft, but dropped the ball.

Exactly, that bit (if true) just shows that the organisation is run by pathetic cowards, how on Earth does that dictate whether you draft a certain player or not, its absolute playground stuff that you'd tell kids off for, never mind professional administrators working for a billion dollar business, absolutely staggering.

 

[CantStoptheBrock]

Always amazed at the 'revisionist' history when it comes to Juolevi. He was trending backwards almost from the day he was drafted, and long before he was hit by injuries. His draft-plus one year with London was more than just a 'mild disappointment'.

He came to the Canucks training camp next season, woefully unprepared for the NHL or even the AHL--and ended up back in Finland. And he's still the only guy picked in the top-15 of the 2016 draft who's never played an NHL game. And his debut might even come next season, if ever.

As usual, bolded is pure narrative and false: Canucks planned to have Juolevi play in Finland that season; he still wasn't even able to play in the AHL. In general, a lot of details are glossed over here in favour of constructing an apocalyptic narrative.

Juolevi's draft+1 regular season was pretty bad. Looked disinterested and without anything to prove. I watched his OHL playoffs that year and thought he finally raised his game in the second round. Of course a top-10 pick in his draft+1 should look pretty good.

His numbers in Finland the next year were very good for his age. I thought he again raised his game in the playoffs, and his strong numbers backed that up.

Then he came to the AHL, and again was putting up very good offensive numbers, as he has throughout his time in the AHL. Then the serious injury problems started, the main reason behind the "every other draft pick has played an NHL game" hoopla.

To me, Juolevi is still a very talented player with good offensive hockey sense. His skating seems to have been affected by injuries. His defensive game needs a lot of work still, along with his overall engagement level, but I did notice his shot blocking was much improved this season in the AHL and was a real asset to the Comets. If he can put his injury problems behind him, improve his defensive play, and engage more physically, he still has top-4 potential to me. Otherwise, he'll be a total bust. 50/50 for me at this point.

 

[Bubbles]

Exactly, that bit (if true) just shows that the organisation is run by pathetic cowards, how on Earth does that dictate whether you draft a certain player or not, its absolute playground stuff that you'd tell kids off for, never mind professional administrators working for a billion dollar business, absolutely staggering.

Unfortunately in reality, many organizations and businesses are rife with that kind of stuff (egoism, nepotism) no matter how big or small they are.

Can anyone post more of this Linden/Tkachuk hate? I would like to know more.

We are talking about an organization that wasted a pick to placate a goalie coach. We drafted Ian Clark's son for no reason other than that he was Ian Clark's son.

Gillis has been blackballed through the NHL just because of personal differences with a few key old school GMs. That's why he still does not have a job when he's way more qualified and has results than the ones out there now.