Prospect Info: 2016 Marlies and Prospects Thread

[Leafs at Knight]

Where is the harm in "polite evaluation"? Shouldn't that be something we strive for as a community here, if anything?

Because it usually isn't polite evaluation hence the " " , it's usually back and fourth bashing/bickering, but w/e, just gets annoying seeing the same thing over and over again.

 

[7even]

Yeah, the people who keep mentioning him as a future top 6 are out of touch with reality a bit.

I've never seen more then a 4th liner. Size is his biggest talent. That doesn't cut it in todays NHL.

If he becomes a Steckel i'd be thrilled, because that means he's at least an NHL player.

I actually disagree with that as well. His defensive intelligence is pretty high end, his skating is good/great, and he's shown a talent for faceoffs. Despite being huge, I don't think his size plays a central role in how Gauthier plays the game, which is both a positive and a negative, really.

 

[mikebel111*]

Right now many people aren't paying attention to the Marlies, but during playoff time, there will more eyes on the team. That's when the Gauthier posts will be insufferable[not that they aren't already]. It won't get pretty if he doesn't score a toe drag goal in the playoffs.

 

[mikebel111*]

People shouldn't expect a #2 Center, as its just very unlikely. But a 3rd line Center is very possible

 

[Ramboshaw]

So what's the latest on Jesper Lingren? One of the more interesting picks this past summer, but haven't heard too much about him lately.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Because it usually isn't polite evaluation hence the " " , it's usually back and fourth bashing/bickering, but w/e, just gets annoying seeing the same thing over and over again.

Going back over the last few pages I only actually see polite discussion. Definitely some differing opinions, but nothing attacking the player personally or any posters for seeing things in a different view.

Maybe we call call out the impolite evaluation when it happens instead of bringing it up in a conversation that's actually pretty tame and goes against what you are saying happens "usually".

 

[saltming]

People shouldn't expect a #2 Center, as its just very unlikely. But a 3rd line Center is very possible

Personally I expect a 3rd line C and pray for a 2nd line C.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I actually disagree with that as well. His defensive intelligence is pretty high end, his skating is good/great, and he's shown a talent for faceoffs. Despite being huge, I don't think his size plays a central role in how Gauthier plays the game, which is both a positive and a negative, really.

I've always viewed his size as a reason for his great play without the puck. He is able to take up space and make plays due to his massive size and reach that a lot of guys can't.

It's when the play goes past the red line into an offensive situation where you see how green he is talent wise.

 

[KGL]

I'm expecting a 4th line C but hoping for a 3rd line C. That shouldn't be the attitude you have with a first round pick, but that's the reality of the situation to me.

 

[saltming]

Going back over the last few pages I only actually see polite discussion. Definitely some differing opinions, but nothing attacking the player personally or any posters for seeing things in a different view.

Maybe we call call out the impolite evaluation when it happens instead of bringing it up in a conversation that's actually pretty tame and goes against what you are saying happens "usually".

Both of you are right. The goat supporters have been through dozens of pages of posters calling him bust, waste of a 1st etc. None of which has happened in the last 2 pages.
Edit go 3 pages back though. Lol

 

[BertCorbeau]

My takeaway with Gauthier is that he is a big bodied, smart centre playing a pro game. As he matures he'll figure out how he can use his size to compensate for his lack of skill in the NHL. He can skate well so long as he keeps that up it will bode well for his future. I think a good, smart coach will be capable of using his strengths and turn him into an effective player. That's why I think he'll do well under Babcock. Babs will love his defensive game and put him with linemates and structure that will hopefully work well. Most teams I'd consider him a 4th line centre but I think the Leafs and Babcock might be able to make him a solid #3C.

Freddy just needs to keep polishing off his skating, working on his puck handling in tight around the net, and developing his shot. That's where his wheel house will be in the corners and a 5-8 foot radius around the net.

 

[saltming]

I'm expecting a 4th line C but hoping for a 3rd line C. That shouldn't be the attitude you have with a first round pick, but that's the reality of the situation to me.

Historically at 21st overall thats what you're getting if you're lucky. About 3 pages back I said not even 25% of all 21st overall picks made it as a 1st line player. A poster was nice enough to list the past 10 years and ony fabbri has a chance of even becoming a 2nd liner.
I think posters are unrealistic with what they expect from the 21st spot in the draft. Sure there are diamonds to be found anywhere, but in reality the goat is a great pick for where he was selected.

 

[Duffman955]

Historically at 21st overall thats what you're getting if you're lucky. About 3 pages back I said not even 25% of all 21st overall picks made it as a 1st line player. A poster was nice enough to list the past 10 years and ony fabbri has a chance of even becoming a 2nd liner.
I think posters are unrealistic with what they expect from the 21st spot in the draft. Sure there are diamonds to be found anywhere, but in reality the goat is a great pick for where he was selected.

A potential 4th liner is great value for a 21st pick?

Did not know that

 

[FreeBird]

People shouldn't expect a #2 Center, as its just very unlikely. But a 3rd line Center is very possible

Just going over Arizona's centres still in junior, Dvorak, Strome, and MacInnis. How long will it be before the Leafs can stockpile this depth. Or have they already.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Historically at 21st overall thats what you're getting if you're lucky. About 3 pages back I said not even 25% of all 21st overall picks made it as a 1st line player. A poster was nice enough to list the past 10 years and ony fabbri has a chance of even becoming a 2nd liner.
I think posters are unrealistic with what they expect from the 21st spot in the draft. Sure there are diamonds to be found anywhere, but in reality the goat is a great pick for where he was selected.

Yup. If Gauthier becomes a replaceable fourth liner, then that's a modestly average result.

If his skillset(faceoffs, defence) comes close to elite, then he's quite valuable even if he stays in the bottom six, and that's a pretty solid pick.

Look at the WJC gold medal game. Gauthier didn't do a whole lot throughout the tournament, but I'm sure the coach was extremely happy to have him there to take every other faceoff while they defended the lead for the last half of the game.

On a bad or even average team, he'll probably never prove his worth.

 

[Faltorvo]

Yeah, the people who keep mentioning him as a future top 6 are out of touch with reality a bit.

I've never seen more then a 4th liner. Size is his biggest talent. That doesn't cut it in todays NHL.

If he becomes a Steckel i'd be thrilled, because that means he's at least an NHL player.

Sorry JB can't buy what your selling here.

Not with who we have as a coach.

I'm seeing 3rd line C , the type that babs won't sht a brick during road games when the home team is able to get their 1rst line out their.

#1 PK c

and #1 go to clutch face off C.

maybe even "park your butt in front of the net" 2nd PP

that's what I see as the goats full role under babs.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Sorry JB can't buy what your selling here.

Not with who we have as a coach.

I'm seeing 3rd line C , the type that babs won't sht a brick during road games when the home team is able to get their 1rst line out their.

#1 PK c

and #1 go to clutch face off C.

maybe even "park your butt in front of the net" 2nd PP

that's what I see as the goats full role under babs.

I hope you're right and i'm the one who will be proven wrong on this one.

I don't think Gauthier will have the talent to play top 9 on a Babcock coached team.

 

[saltming]

A potential 4th liner is great value for a 21st pick?

Did not know that

2014 - Robby Fabbri - 53g 24p
2012 - Mark Jankowski - 0g 0p
2011 - Stefan Noesen - 1g 0p
2010 - Riley Sheahan - 175g 73p
2009 - John Moore - 280g 52p
2008 - Anton Gustafsson - 0g 0p
2007 - Riley Nash - 221g 82p
2006 - Bobby Sanguinetti - 45g 6p
2005 - Tuuka Rask - 309g
2004 - Wojtek Wolski - 451g 267p

 

[Jack Bauer]

A potential 4th liner is great value for a 21st pick?

Did not know that

If you'd look at history then just getting an NHL player at that point is good value.

Most picked around and after that won't ever play more then a handful of NHL games. Using that perspective, it would be great value if a Gauthier plays as a regular bottom 6.

 

[saltming]

Yup. If Gauthier becomes a replaceable fourth liner, then that's a modestly average result.

If his skillset(faceoffs, defence) comes close to elite, then he's quite valuable even if he stays in the bottom six, and that's a pretty solid pick.

Look at the WJC gold medal game. Gauthier didn't do a whole lot throughout the tournament, but I'm sure the coach was extremely happy to have him there to take every other faceoff while they defended the lead for the last half of the game.

On a bad or even average team, he'll probably never prove his worth.

Or maybe he could make a bad team average and an average team above average? Who knows? Time will tell.

 

[Number13]

A potential 4th liner is great value for a 21st pick?

Did not know that

Sounds like you don't know much.

Potential describes their ceiling if they reach it, 3rd line centre is what his potential is. Babcock will love Gauthier and with our roster overhaul in the coming years, Freddy will be given every chance to succeed.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

The issue with that is that in this cap system you don't develop players to be 4th line C's long term. That spot on the roster is used to break in youth or get veterans at the end of your lineup some ice time.

If you're not developing a player like Gauthier into a top 9 forward at minimum then you're wasting your time on that asset because by the time he's developed and ready for his 4th line role you have 2 or 3 drafts worth of prospects plus other Marlie players who will be better equipped for that 4th line role.

I look forward to following his progress as most people are very 1 sided of their opinions on him in that they either see him as a top 9 forward without question or will be shocked if he ever plays more then 30 games at the NHL level past a 4th line role.

What does grooming a shutdown centre have to do with the cap? Wasting time? You're just developing a player in-house, and paying him, as opposed to overpaying for a contract year in FA. Plus, the guy was raised in your system.

Way off, fella.

 

[burpsalot]

Gauthier's defensive game & strength are too strong to be a 4th line centre. Not enough icetime there. He'll be 1st line shutdown centre (usually called a 3rd line centre). He'll not be expected to score many goals, but he'll be expected to shutdown the other teams top threat. So far he has been groomed for that & it's a role he seems to relish & has accepted as his niche. He knows his strengths & he appears to have accepted a role that he can be very good at using his strengths.

I highly doubt he'll ever be a top 2 offensive centre, but as a top defensive role centre, I think a number of teams would love to have him. A handful of goals & 15 assists would all be bonus.

 

[Faltorvo]

I hope you're right and i'm the one who will be proven wrong on this one.

I don't think Gauthier will have the talent to play top 9 on a Babcock coached team.

Here is the thing about "talent"

There are many ability categories that have to be added up to evaluate a players WHOLE worth.

I have seen it happen many many times where folks don't read past the "sexy" ability categories and stop before they get to the meat and potatoes. Kinda like how they saw Kessel so ridiculously wrong as a player.

IMO the goat is all meat and potatoes , I can tell that babs loves meat and potatoes

I firmly believe the goat will reach the heights I alluded to earlier.

 

[burpsalot]

Here is the thing about "talent"

There are many ability categories that have to be added up to evaluate a players WHOLE worth.

I have seen it happen many many times where folks don't read past the "sexy" ability categories and stop before they get to the meat and potatoes. Kinda like how they saw Kessel so ridiculously wrong as a player.

IMO the goat is all meat and potatoes , I can tell that babs loves meat and potatoes

I firmly believe the goat will reach the heights I alluded to earlier.

Babcock loves chevon & potatoes.