how is having a shred of optimism comparable to having my head in the sand? is it unrealistic to expect this roster (which is loaded with talent) to make the playoffs? Im not thumping my chest claiming that the Kings are a guaranteed lock for the cup final, Im saying this team has what it takes to do damage and do well in the playoffs. how is that unreasonable? because it doesnt fit your consistently pejorative narrative? "I've been watching this team long enough to know exactly what they are, and right now they are a middle of the road team. " okay, did you predict the run they had in 2012? how about 2013 or 2014? or were you a salty fan back then too that just happened to luck out when the team proved you wrong? my brain works well enough for me to know that I have no ****ing IDEA how this season is going to play out, and that I would be a ****ing fool to act like I know whats going to happen, but that doesnt stop me from being hopeful and excited to see what they can do. if theres one thing I know about this Kings team, its that you never know what they are going to do. they could dominate everyone like in 2012, or they could prove statistics wrong like they did in 2014, or they could totally lose all momentum and miss the playoffs like they did in 2015. after all the crazy **** this team has been through in the last 5 years, how can you seriously act like you know whats going to happen?
Line Combos: 2016-2017 Kings Roster
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how is having a shred of optimism comparable to having my head in the sand? is it unrealistic to expect this roster (which is loaded with talent) to make the playoffs? Im not thumping my chest claiming that the Kings are a guaranteed lock for the cup final, Im saying this team has what it takes to do damage and do well in the playoffs. how is that unreasonable? because it doesnt fit your consistently pejorative narrative? "I've been watching this team long enough to know exactly what they are, and right now they are a middle of the road team. " okay, did you predict the run they had in 2012? how about 2013 or 2014? or were you a salty fan back then too that just happened to luck out when the team proved you wrong? my brain works well enough for me to know that I have no ****ing IDEA how this season is going to play out, and that I would be a ****ing fool to act like I know whats going to happen, but that doesnt stop me from being hopeful and excited to see what they can do. if theres one thing I know about this Kings team, its that you never know what they are going to do. they could dominate everyone like in 2012, or they could prove statistics wrong like they did in 2014, or they could totally lose all momentum and miss the playoffs like they did in 2015. after all the crazy **** this team has been through in the last 5 years, how can you seriously act like you know whats going to happen?
KingTrouty
Allons!
I'm not that guy, broham. And since you're an amazing member to this site (I often agree with you, Ziggy), I won't lash out.
There's a far <censored> cry from a single 2007 championship and our two coming from the last 5 years.
Our roster still has a decent amount of players from the 2014 run and the same front office.
I will be that guy. For now.
Like I said, I get equally annoyed at the LGK mantra of rah rah blah blah, but I won't stand for our beautiful franchise to be demeaned. Not until sustained ineptitude is displayed. We're no where near the Ducks futility.
Cut it out.
KingTrouty
Allons!
I appreciate the optimism, but we're realists here, AKA **** gets bleak.
Well then you're gonna appreciate the <censored> out of me, until it truly gets bleak, Omni.
KingTrouty
Allons!
Ziggy, you've been a fan for a long time, this isn't the black hole era. Stahp. It's not even close. Just. Stop.
I had to explain to a buddy what the black hole was the other day.
Its a repeating cycle for this team and Dean is starting to enter DT territory. Yes, he did bring us two cups but new blood could be a good thing, both on and off the ice.
If Pearson McNabb and a couple of the others improve, and a couple of the new guys fit in and surprise it could be a great season.
KingTrouty
Allons!
You're a joke. Right? This is a joke?
If not, you know nothing of sports and elite mangement and how hard it is to come by. You may exit stage left. Please, don't even take a program.
Who do we replace Dean with? And don't say Futa. Save yourself my retort. And don't say Blake, save yourself your own embarrassment.
ETA -- And don't say "idk derp, anyone, someone who is good derp derp" Not with the incendiary comparison you stated in your post. I genuinely want to know.
You're, what, 20? 22?
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Kingspiracy
Registered User
- Nov 13, 2006
- 6,377
- 2,536
Does it come up <censored> now when we get a bit feral or do we have to type it, only one way to find out I guess, ah **** it.
First game of the season lets **** their **** up
KingTrouty
Allons!
Lol Ziggy!! No mang, I just learned from getting benched on various sports forums, that's the best way to do it.
Everyone has different rules re: language circumvention. And I'm a master of the craft, so I get myself in trouble a lot.
gilbert and dowd are the extras in tonights game along with pearson being suspended... well about that expected change. ya. no. these are the line rushes.
brown - kopitar - setoguchi
purcell - carter - toffoli
king - shore - lewis
clifford - andreoff - nolan
muzzin - doughty
forbort - martinez
mcnabb - greene
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
brown - kopitar - setoguchi
purcell - carter - toffoli
king - shore - lewis
clifford - andreoff - nolan
muzzin - doughty
forbort - martinez
mcnabb - greene
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
KingTrouty
Allons!
Not gonna go too hard on it, and I hope he surprises, me, but I don't like Greener as the number 6. I don't think it lasts long. Especially paired with McMabb. I do love Muzz and Drew paired again. There is no better pairing in the league and it's not even close. Almost not even fair.
The Forbort AMart pairing is very intriguing in regular season action.
A lot to be excited for this season. A lot to be evaluated.
Gravel, I love ye lol
KingsFan7824
Registered User
- Dec 4, 2003
- 19,537
- 7,615
New blood isn't going to get rid of any of the large contracts the team has. That black hole cycle is just a reality with a cap. The Hawks managed to get through two cap crunches, but that's because they got to a conference final and won the Cup while both Kane and Toews were on their ELC's. The Kings didn't manage to do that with Kopitar and Doughty. Other than that, the Kings had 2012-2014, and the Hawks 2013-2015. Now both teams are in similar boats.
Nope, but new blood, and cheap contracts will offset the bad contracts.
I hope they get Toffoli & Pearson resigned soon so we don't have to put up with all the offersheet bs on the main boards.
Lindholm...
KingTrouty
Allons!
Nope, but new blood, and cheap contracts will offset the bad contracts.
I hope they get Toffoli & Pearson resigned soon so we don't have to put up with all the offersheet bs on the main boards.
Toffoli is already gonna get paid, we're past that point. We do need to lock up Pearson long term now, before he breaks out, which he will.
We have the cap. 6x3.8 would be a steal that could be done. Probly not, but a boy could dream.
tsanuri
Registered User
Nope, but new blood, and cheap contracts will offset the bad contracts.
I hope they get Toffoli & Pearson resigned soon so we don't have to put up with all the offersheet bs on the main boards.
If it makes it to the off-season we'll see offer sheet threads for sure.
With Lindholm it's getting worse because it's gone on so long.
Can't remember the last time we had 3 RFA's without a contract to start the season.
I'd like to see both sooner rather than later just so they don't increase their value. If Toffoli doesn't hit that cold streak last year he scores 40. And that just adds more 0's to the contract.
KingsFan7824
Registered User
- Dec 4, 2003
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Nope, but new blood, and cheap contracts will offset the bad contracts.
I hope they get Toffoli & Pearson resigned soon so we don't have to put up with all the offersheet bs on the main boards.
I read it as new blood in the GM seat. No GM is getting rid of Brown's contract. If someone could, fire Lombardi now.
KingTrouty
Allons!
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
I don't think there needs be nearly as much negativity as there is between the optimists and the folks that are criticizing the org heavily. I think there's plenty of justification for either, frankly. That just paints what a weird spot we are in as a team. NO one will deny we have an elite core.
What I don't understand is how people think that elite core is practically guaranteed to miss the playoffs. What exactly is the suggestion? Blow it up? Because then you're talking selling Kopitar, Doughty, etc. in their prime and hoping to find players like that later. If you're not suggesting that, what exactly is the suggestion, realizing limited cap space and assets? If the answer is 'go with youth,' that's happening. If the answer is 'jettison brown/gaborik,' you have to understand WHY that's not happening. If the answer is 'turf DL,' then you have to understand that doesn't immediately change things and we're left in the same position but with fragmented management.
I'm just trying to wrap my head around that criticism. Someone please enlighten me, because while I'm leaning towards optimism with our roster, I recognize it's got flaws, I just don't think they're 'miss the playoffs' flaws, and to me that's not a black hole, we have all the pieces to catch fire and do it all. We're just not the top-3 favorite anymore.
What I don't understand is how people think that elite core is practically guaranteed to miss the playoffs. What exactly is the suggestion? Blow it up? Because then you're talking selling Kopitar, Doughty, etc. in their prime and hoping to find players like that later. If you're not suggesting that, what exactly is the suggestion, realizing limited cap space and assets? If the answer is 'go with youth,' that's happening. If the answer is 'jettison brown/gaborik,' you have to understand WHY that's not happening. If the answer is 'turf DL,' then you have to understand that doesn't immediately change things and we're left in the same position but with fragmented management.
I'm just trying to wrap my head around that criticism. Someone please enlighten me, because while I'm leaning towards optimism with our roster, I recognize it's got flaws, I just don't think they're 'miss the playoffs' flaws, and to me that's not a black hole, we have all the pieces to catch fire and do it all. We're just not the top-3 favorite anymore.
KingTrouty
Allons!
RJ, there are -- without a doubt -- flaws. We are in a rebuild, whether these fans want to admit it or not. What makes DL elite is that even during a rebuild, he keeps us competitive.
These doom and gloom posters, more or less, are youngsters (under 30) who haven't had anything but glory in their fandom. Or, the small minority of older posters who are negative always, and I suspect disappear when we win it all. Every fansite has these guys.
For me, more exciting than this season, is the next two or three, with DL at the helm -- an elite GM who is stabilizing the org after taking shot after shot for his third ring. And oh boy, can he do it. I think we have a Belichick (Epstein, etc) type captain at the helm here, but due to the gnarly'est cap in all of sports, has to hurdle the most. There is no non-guaranteed contract space, restructuring, etc.
I disregard most of these idiotic posts, but some are so juicy I have to jump on them.
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
I look at it this way.
Who have the Kings brought along to replace the following who played integral roles in 2012 and 2014 or just recently left the team?
Justin Williams
Willie Mitchell
Slava Voynov
Mike Richards
Jarret Stoll
Robyn Regehr
Dustin Penner
Andrej Sekera
Milan Lucic
Brad Richardson
When Scuderi left after 2013, Muzzin came along. When Bernier was dealt, Jones was there. The plan for McNabb was to replace Regehr, but with Mitchell also moving on, his responsibilities and minutes increased more than anticipated. The departure of Mitchell and Voynov also led to more minutes and an increased role for Alec Martinez.
In terms of the forwards, Lucic was brought in to replace the points and minutes played by Williams, but now they're both gone. Guys like Penner and Richardson were useful at that time they were with the team and did chip in offensively, just as Richards and Stoll did as depth players in the lineup.
Toffoli and Pearson have come up the ranks, but of the two, only Toffoli really poses as a threat offensively (despite being wildly inconsistent). Pearson still has ways to go but the organization is counting on him to be a top six forward and this is when they really need him to fulfill his potential.
After that, it's the same old group. Lewis, King, Clifford, Nolan are still around from both Cup runs. Shore, Dowd and Andreoff are the new faces but they still have a lot to prove at this level.
There are a handful of players who will be counted on to carry the team now. They don't have the support they once had, and guys like Brown, Setoguchi and Purcell are going to have to all have bounce back seasons, which may be too much to ask from them. Can they replace the offense lost from Justin Williams or Milan Lucic? I doubt they will.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, I should add Dustin Brown to that missing players list. His offense hasn't been replaced and he sure as hell is not the same player. They lost Dustin Brown who produced as a top 6 forward and replaced him with Dustin Brown the grinder who will be lucky to reach 30 points.
Who have the Kings brought along to replace the following who played integral roles in 2012 and 2014 or just recently left the team?
Justin Williams
Willie Mitchell
Slava Voynov
Mike Richards
Jarret Stoll
Robyn Regehr
Dustin Penner
Andrej Sekera
Milan Lucic
Brad Richardson
When Scuderi left after 2013, Muzzin came along. When Bernier was dealt, Jones was there. The plan for McNabb was to replace Regehr, but with Mitchell also moving on, his responsibilities and minutes increased more than anticipated. The departure of Mitchell and Voynov also led to more minutes and an increased role for Alec Martinez.
In terms of the forwards, Lucic was brought in to replace the points and minutes played by Williams, but now they're both gone. Guys like Penner and Richardson were useful at that time they were with the team and did chip in offensively, just as Richards and Stoll did as depth players in the lineup.
Toffoli and Pearson have come up the ranks, but of the two, only Toffoli really poses as a threat offensively (despite being wildly inconsistent). Pearson still has ways to go but the organization is counting on him to be a top six forward and this is when they really need him to fulfill his potential.
After that, it's the same old group. Lewis, King, Clifford, Nolan are still around from both Cup runs. Shore, Dowd and Andreoff are the new faces but they still have a lot to prove at this level.
There are a handful of players who will be counted on to carry the team now. They don't have the support they once had, and guys like Brown, Setoguchi and Purcell are going to have to all have bounce back seasons, which may be too much to ask from them. Can they replace the offense lost from Justin Williams or Milan Lucic? I doubt they will.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, I should add Dustin Brown to that missing players list. His offense hasn't been replaced and he sure as hell is not the same player. They lost Dustin Brown who produced as a top 6 forward and replaced him with Dustin Brown the grinder who will be lucky to reach 30 points.
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KingTrouty
Allons!
That's a great post, Ziggy, but a lot of those questions are unknowns at this point (I've touched on all of them in my carpet bombing posting here lol).
We have to wait for the season to start to see if McNabb is a top 4, Pearson a top 6, Purcell a top 9, and where exactly Dowd and Andreoff are (Andy looked real nice with consisitant time at the end of last year).
We have potential hot, last month and a half energy call ups in Gravel, LaDue, and Mersch. We have other potential elite talent in the pipeline in Kempe and Amadio (he isn't close, granted, but his ceiling is high).
Let's give this regime a chance, brody. Even if it takes a year or two.
Dean is a Jedi (to borrow the moniker oh-so-often-given to Belichick, or a Sith, if you're the opposition). He gets all the patience and benefit of the doubt. There's no one better to replace him. Let's see what he does with his new model.
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KingsFan7824
Registered User
- Dec 4, 2003
- 19,537
- 7,615
If there was a GM that could move Brown's contract, the Kings can kindly ask Lombardi to walk out of the door. Since there is no GM that can make that move, new blood in the GM seat doesn't really do anything. Maybe a different GM brings in different cheap players, but the reality of all the big contracts doesn't change.
The tough part is look at the Kings core today; Kopitar, Doughty, Quick. It's tough to get that kind of talent. Those were the young guys that were coming up before 2012, and buttressed by the veterans you listed. The guys that have replaced the guys you listed are Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick. They're now the vets making the money. That money can't go to other veterans while the core is still productive.
Unfortunately, most young guys take time. It took Martinez 3 years after being drafted before he regularly played in the NHL. Voynov, same thing. Basically the same thing with Toffoli. Pearson was drafted at 19, and it was mostly a 2 year wait, until he took off in the 2014 playoffs. Between 2010 and 2011, the Kings had 11 draft picks, which is fewer than normal, and Forbort has been a missed pick so far.
Going by the 3 year idea, there should be a guy or two coming in from the 2013 draft. 2 of the players have been traded, one went down the Voynov road, and there are maybe 2 other guys that might do something, but probably not this year, if ever.
A team good enough to win the Cup twice in three years doesn't come around all the time. Not for the same franchise anyway. That right mix of players, at the right time, at the right ages, the right contracts, etc, it ends eventually. Even if you do everything right.
The Tikkanen
Pest
Scottkmlps
Registered User
KingTrouty
Allons!
So, let me get this straight... Dean should be let go if there is another GM able to move Brown's contract? (A weird <censored> hypothetical, but I will play.)
Dean Lombardi?
I just want to make double sure you are resolute on your opinion. I even simplified my post for you, to make it a "yes or no" response before I respond (read: jump the gun).
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Dowd sitting in place of Shore?
Goal totals from last season of the players who currently occupy the bottom six:
Andreoff - 8
Lewis - 8
King - 7
Shore - 3
Clifford - 3
Nolan - 0
29 goals from those six, an average of 4.83 goals for.
Every single one of those players were also in the negative in the +/- category, save for Nolan who was an even zero and Andreoff who was a +1. Both Shore and Lewis were a -10, King was a -6.
While I obviously don't expect these guys to be productive players, the numbers indicate that they can be a liability on the ice. That is something that is very concerning to me, especially if they're on the ice with a defenseman like McNabb or Greene.
I'm going to keep a close eye tonight to see how often the puck is trapped inside the Kings' end of the ice when the bottom six is on the ice.
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