2016-17 Kings Roster Part 2

[KingsFan7824]

I knew this past offseason, things looked a bit ominious. It was eerily like DL's first
moves he made.

In 2007, the BLEH signings:

Handzus, Calder, Nagy, Stuart.

The 2016 BEYOND BLEH signings:

Purcell, Gilbert, Trotman, Latta.

Full circle of downward spiral. Not one of those could even be a regular and 3 went to
Ontario.

After the results of the previous 2 seasons, and also giving up 1st rounders/prospects for Sekera, Lucic, and Versteeg, I think Lombardi got to the point where he wanted to wait and see if this team was worth investing in. Some warm bodies in free agency, some open spots for young guys, and see how the season goes.

 

[funky]

After the results of the previous 2 seasons, and also giving up 1st rounders/prospects for Sekera, Lucic, and Versteeg, I think Lombardi got to the point where he wanted to wait and see if this team was worth investing in. Some warm bodies in free agency, some open spots for young guys, and see how the season goes.

Think you hit the nail in the head. I haven't had time this year to follow our Monarchs this season. Is there any hope of anyone being impact ready for the NHL next year?

 

[Johnny Utah]

Have to imagine some of the bottom six redundancies will be handled one way or another...but on one hand youre complaining that not many forward spots are open, then on another you're complaining that there aren't guys to push for spots...which is it?

I would argue Brodzinski will be pushing as well as would Kempe, Amadio may surprise, and there are almost always training camp surprises. Brodz especially may be nearly doubling his point total this year, probably not a ton more for him to do down there. I think LaDue will make a monstrous case. Will probably be hard to keep him off the roster next year.

I'm complaining that there are not enough spots because Lombardi won't rid himself of all this bottom 6 dead weight.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Here is the Hawks roster...

Ryan Hartman Jonathan Toews Richard Panik
Artemi Panarin Artem Anisimov Patrick Kane
Vince Hinostroza Tanner Kero Marian Hossa
Dennis Rasmussen Nick Schmaltz Jordin Tootoo

Look at how much different their roster is and how much youth is playing.

Just say Mayor said, dump the dead weight and adapt to what other teams who are up against the Cap are doing.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Here is the Hawks roster...

Ryan Hartman Jonathan Toews Richard Panik
Artemi Panarin Artem Anisimov Patrick Kane
Vince Hinostroza Tanner Kero Marian Hossa
Dennis Rasmussen Nick Schmaltz Jordin Tootoo

Look at how much different their roster is and how much youth is playing.

Just say Mayor said, dump the dead weight and adapt to what other teams who are up against the Cap are doing.

Agreed. We all (except efhank) thought that Forbert was about waivable and look how he's stepped up. Gravel has played well too. Get rid of the dead weight. Bring in Brodzinski and even give Kempe a few games...even Kempe is putting up points.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Here is the Hawks roster...

Ryan Hartman Jonathan Toews Richard Panik
Artemi Panarin Artem Anisimov Patrick Kane
Vince Hinostroza Tanner Kero Marian Hossa
Dennis Rasmussen Nick Schmaltz Jordin Tootoo

Look at how much different their roster is and how much youth is playing.

Just say Mayor said, dump the dead weight and adapt to what other teams who are up against the Cap are doing.

And why are the Hawks near the top of the division/conference? What young player is blowing things out of the water? Kane and Panarin are doing their normal thing. Anisimov has been having a career year so far. Their 38 year old forward has 18 goals.

The Kings have 8 goals from Toffoli, and 4 from Kopitar and Gaborik.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Here is the Hawks roster...

Ryan Hartman Jonathan Toews Richard Panik
Artemi Panarin Artem Anisimov Patrick Kane
Vince Hinostroza Tanner Kero Marian Hossa
Dennis Rasmussen Nick Schmaltz Jordin Tootoo

Look at how much different their roster is and how much youth is playing.

Just say Mayor said, dump the dead weight and adapt to what other teams who are up against the Cap are doing.

And Chicago is tied with Minnesota for the most points in the West. They're also doing this while Toews is struggling to produce, but their balanced lineup is helping them find production beyond their top guns.

Who knew that giving young players an opportunity to play could work out? Kero is 24, Hinostroza is 22, Schmaltz is 21 and Hartman is 20.

The youngest players on the Kings are 24. Shore, Forbort, Pearson, Toffoli and Gravel are all 24, Andreoff is 25, and McNabb, Clifford and Dowd are 26.

It puzzles me how this organization can't trust young guys with minutes, but they'll insert guys like King, Lewis, Setoguchi, Brown, etc. into roles that they shouldn't be in. You don't see the Blackhawks putting Jordin Tootoo in a top six role.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

you're right. The secret to success is play more 20 and 21 years olds. Right after complaining that we need more production for Kopitar.

The organization not playing youth/rookies is the most-often repeated wrong myth on this board.

 

[Choralone]

Trading Lewis and Clifford knocks 3.6 million off the books next year. Letting King and Gilbert walk takes us down another 3.35. If Greene hangs them up, that's another 2.5 (although he may try to hang on one more year - who wouldn't want an extra 2.5 mil?). Optimistically, that's 9.45 million gross with much cheaper players to take their place (let's say 5 x 600,000 for 3 million) leaving us net 6.45 million.

It's potentially all going to Pearson and Toffoli, but, uh where was I going with this?

 

[BigKing]

Chicago's top guys, sans Toews, are still killing it. The Kings top guys, sans Carter, are killing us.

Without the Panarin signing, where would they be? Give them lots of credit for that.

I'm not against injecting youth into the roster, but Mersch in place of Clifford or whatever you want to do doesn't mean **** in light of the production from 11-12-73.

 

[Choralone]

It puzzles me how this organization can't trust young guys with minutes, but they'll insert guys like King, Lewis, Setoguchi, Brown, etc. into roles that they shouldn't be in. You don't see the Blackhawks putting Jordin Tootoo in a top six role.

They get played because they are the kind of players that play within the system, do what they'e asked, and play safe. They're a known quantity for the coach, and he uses them to plug holes without worrying they'll leak - not because he's expecting great things from them. With young players he can't even expect that. If we had surefire, can't miss young talents to bring up, it might be a different story.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

you're right. The secret to success is play more 20 and 21 years olds. Right after complaining that we need more production for Kopitar.

The organization not playing youth/rookies is the most-often repeated wrong myth on this board.

We don't know how well they'll do, but this team needs a boost that they're not getting from the decrepit and "stale" players currently in the lineup.

Are we to assume that these guys are suddenly going to perform better? How long have you been saying that about Kopitar? Same crap applies with Brown. Every year we get some fans clinging on hope that he'll find his scoring touch again, when every year his shooting percentage continues to spiral downwards.

Remember how old Toffoli and Pearson were when they got paired up with Carter? The Ducks have a 21 year old in their lineup who would be the 3rd leading goal scorer on this team. But then again, if Nick Ritchie was a Kings prospect he'd likely still be in Ontario.

 

[Johnny Utah]

you're right. The secret to success is play more 20 and 21 years olds. Right after complaining that we need more production for Kopitar.

The organization not playing youth/rookies is the most-often repeated wrong myth on this board.

I didn't say anything about Kopitar. I, myself, am upset he pushed the Kings to give him 10 million. Pretty damn selfish knowing that the more he asked for the less chance the Kings would be able to sign Lucic.

The Kings are STALE. They need an infusion of something. King, Lewis, Clifford, and Nolan are 4 players who have been in the bottom 6 since 2012. How many teams have 4 of there 6 bottom forwards the EXACT same for 4-5 years!

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

We don't know how well they'll do, but this team needs a boost that they're not getting from the decrepit and "stale" players currently in the lineup.

Are we to assume that these guys are suddenly going to perform better? How long have you been saying that about Kopitar? Same crap applies with Brown. Every year we get some fans clinging on hope that he'll find his scoring touch again, when every year his shooting percentage continues to spiral downwards.

Remember how old Toffoli and Pearson were when they got paired up with Carter? The Ducks have a 21 year old in their lineup who would be the 3rd leading goal scorer on this team. But then again, if Nick Ritchie was a Kings prospect he'd likely still be in Ontario.

Yes, it's reasonable to assume that Kopitar (and gaborik and toffoli) are going to perform better.

Pointing out that Toffoli and Pearson were paired with carter only helps dispel the myth that we don't play our youth so thanks for that.

I didn't say anything about Kopitar. I, myself, am upset he pushed the Kings to give him 10 million. Pretty damn selfish knowing that the more he asked for the less chance the Kings would be able to sign Lucic.

The Kings are STALE. They need an infusion of something. King, Lewis, Clifford, and Nolan are 4 players who have been in the bottom 6 since 2012. How many teams have 4 of there 6 bottom forwards the EXACT same for 4-5 years!

Ok--and they got an infusion of Dowd, Gravel, Forbort--and as pointed out, King and Nolan weren't called up until February, Toffoli and Pearson had no problem entering the lineup...But Mersch couldn't even beat out Setoguchi.

People want youth for the sake of shiny new toys rather than for effectiveness.

nevertheless I expect some player movement around the break because we are overloaded with redundancies, I don't disagree with you guys there. But as far as the bottom six--those have been some of the best fourth liners in the league for the last few years by any metric, like it or not.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Yes, it's reasonable to assume that Kopitar (and gaborik and toffoli) are going to perform better.

Pointing out that Toffoli and Pearson were paired with carter only helps dispel the myth that we don't play our youth so thanks for that.

Remember when that line was put together? When the Kings were down 0-3 in the series against the Sharks.

Pearson didn't even play in Games 1 & 2 and they were used sparingly as well. So what is it again about trusting youth? Sutter doesn't like doing it unless his hand is forced.

And did you give up on Dustin Brown as a top six forward yet or are you still holding out hope that his shooting percentage will be touched by God and a miracle will occur before our very eyes?

 

[KingsFan7824]

Trading Lewis and Clifford knocks 3.6 million off the books next year. Letting King and Gilbert walk takes us down another 3.35. If Greene hangs them up, that's another 2.5 (although he may try to hang on one more year - who wouldn't want an extra 2.5 mil?). Optimistically, that's 9.45 million gross with much cheaper players to take their place (let's say 5 x 600,000 for 3 million) leaving us net 6.45 million.

It's potentially all going to Pearson and Toffoli, but, uh where was I going with this?

To the same zero-sum game that Lombardi's going to. A lot of road blocks any which way.

 

[Johnny Utah]

The day Sutter was fired all the Flames fans said the same thing - he prefers vets.

This is not the coach we need moving forward. If Brown, Gaborik were not signed to these horrible deals the best move would have to just clear everyone out except Kopitar, Carter, Pearson, Toffoli, and Dowd and start over with youth or younger free agents or players acquired via trade.

Instead, we are on year 5 of King, Nolan, Lewis, Clifford....and year 3 of Nick Shore and his 8 goals in 147 games played. Wow.

By the way, this the third year in a row Dustin Brown is a minus player. Second most on the team. Dowd is #1. Setoguchi is #4...why is he still here?

 

[BigKing]

Would just like to point out that Ritchie has a higher pedigree than anyone the Kings have taken since Ritchie's draft year. He's also a man-child that was pretty much physically ready to play in the NHL the moment he was drafted.

Ritchie would have probably made the Kings out of camp but would definitely be seeing a call-up around this time as long as he was playing well in Ontario. Would follow the path Toffoli took.

As for Brodz and Kempe: Toffoli and Pearson both showed much more during their time in Manchester than these two have in Ontario. Brodz is putting it together this season and is probably first on the list to see some NHL action but Kempe needs to do more than just reflect on a strong Calder Cup run and his status as a first round pick.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Remember when that line was put together? When the Kings were down 0-3 in the series against the Sharks.

Pearson didn't even play in Games 1 & 2 and they were used sparingly as well. So what is it again about trusting youth? Sutter doesn't like doing it unless his hand is forced.

If Quenneville had the option, would he rather play all the young guys on Chicago, or have the more known vets? He's playing the young guys because the cap has forced it. He literally couldn't have enough players for a game otherwise. All things being equal, what coach would rather play rookies than the veteran that does what coaches say?

And was a lack of Pearson the problem in Games 1 and 2 against the Sharks in 2014? They gave up 13 goals. Pearson isn't that good.

 

[BigKing]

The day Sutter was fired all the Flames fans said the same thing - he prefers vets.

This is not the coach we need moving forward. If Brown, Gaborik were not signed to these horrible deals the best move would have to just clear everyone out except Kopitar, Carter, Pearson, Toffoli, and Dowd and start over with youth or younger free agents or players acquired via trade.

Instead, we are on year 5 of King, Nolan, Lewis, Clifford....and year 3 of Nick Shore and his 8 goals in 147 games played. Wow.

By the way, this the third year in a row Dustin Brown is a minus player. Second most on the team. Dowd is #1. Setoguchi is #4...why is he still here?

There is no argument that he doesn't prefer vets; however, it doesn't mean he is allergic to playing young guys.

Should also be said that Lombardi wants these guys to marinate in the AHL for as long as possible. Is it Sutter or Lombardi that doesn't play rookies?

Sutter can only coach who is made available to him.

I know you have issues with Lombardi and the "dead weight"...just saying that he is more the root of the issue as opposed to Sutter.

Flames fans can say that about Sutter since he was the GM.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

If Quenneville had the option, would he rather play all the young guys on Chicago, or have the more known vets? He's playing the young guys because the cap has forced it. He literally couldn't have enough players for a game otherwise. All things being equal, what coach would rather play rookies than the veteran that does what coaches say?

And was a lack of Pearson the problem in Games 1 and 2 against the Sharks in 2014? They gave up 13 goals. Pearson isn't that good.

Pearson didn't factor in those results, but removing Mike Richards from a top six role helped the Kings against the Sharks. The Sharks destroyed the Kings due to line matchups being lopsided in their favor.

That changed when Carter shifted back to C and the Kings had a more balanced lineup. They also started to score goals after the changes and stayed out of the box, which killed them in Games 1 & 2. So yeah, Pearson coming in did help them out by reducing Richards's minutes.

 

[theMajor]

The day Sutter was fired all the Flames fans said the same thing - he prefers vets.

This is not the coach we need moving forward. If Brown, Gaborik were not signed to these horrible deals the best move would have to just clear everyone out except Kopitar, Carter, Pearson, Toffoli, and Dowd and start over with youth or younger free agents or players acquired via trade.

Instead, we are on year 5 of King, Nolan, Lewis, Clifford....and year 3 of Nick Shore and his 8 goals in 147 games played. Wow.

By the way, this the third year in a row Dustin Brown is a minus player. Second most on the team. Dowd is #1. Setoguchi is #4...why is he still here?

isnt the blame youre placing on Sutter supposed to be on Lombardi? DS can only work with what he's given. I understand he doesnt favor young blood over the NHL proven players but I respect the way he makes players earn their ice time. thats the way it SHOULD be. its not like he has some secret weapons that he just refuses to use, he has a bunch of crappy bottom sixers because thats what Lombardi has given him

edit: just realized BigKing said pretty much the same thing I posted

 

[AlphaBravo]

They get played because they are the kind of players that play within the system, do what they'e asked, and play safe. They're a known quantity for the coach, and he uses them to plug holes without worrying they'll leak - not because he's expecting great things from them. With young players he can't even expect that. If we had surefire, can't miss young talents to bring up, it might be a different story.

This is basically it. The only reason we are border-line in the mix for the playoffs is Sutter's system. Without Sutter's system, we would be in the bottom of the standings with the lack of talent we have, and the fact that our top players are producing no where near their potential. If new rookies are brought up, it creates cracks in Sutter's system, and risks us completely falling off the map.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Would just like to point out that Ritchie has a higher pedigree than anyone the Kings have taken since Ritchie's draft year. He's also a man-child that was pretty much physically ready to play in the NHL the moment he was drafted.

Ritchie would have probably made the Kings out of camp but would definitely be seeing a call-up around this time as long as he was playing well in Ontario. Would follow the path Toffoli took.

As for Brodz and Kempe: Toffoli and Pearson both showed much more during their time in Manchester than these two have in Ontario. Brodz is putting it together this season and is probably first on the list to see some NHL action but Kempe needs to do more than just reflect on a strong Calder Cup run and his status as a first round pick.

Are you talking Nick Ritchie? He is bad ass. Did you see him fight Kurtis Gabriel the other night.

I hate comparing us to the Ducks, but 5 of their top 10 scorers are under 25 and 3 are forwards, and of those 3, 2 are first year players.

The Kings, on the other hand, only 2 of the their top 10 scores are under 25, and that is the same two we always talk about, Pearson and Toffoli.

 

[Trolfoli]

Ok....

Hawks... They would suck with Budaj as their starter.

Kings are "Stale"
1) depth players that know the system is what this team is built on.
2) if Seto/King/Lewis/Andy are keeping you from making the team then you don't belong in the NHL.
3) There are some players that might make an impact on the AHL roster. This is worth **** all if Quick isn't back. Is Quick coming back? Started practicing?
4)Let the youth play the season in the AHL. No point in having them come up to this train wreck right now. They can get playoff experience.

Cap: Is not an issue with guys like Forbot/Gravel/LaDue/Brodz/Kempe coming on cheap deals.

Team needs time. It isn't there yet, but just needs time. Could have taken a shot this year, but that's not happening without a #1 goalie.

If this get's much worse might as well shut Kopitar down and have him get his wrist fixed.