WJC: 2016 — Finland Roster Talk

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Cherry-picking the stats that support your narrative, I see. :laugh:

But yeah, that's what playing in front of experimental defense gets ya. But if they were really as bad as their NT numbers indicate, it would also show when playing for their club teams, against grown men and generally tougher competition, would it? "Nah... I don't have to care about common sense, I'll just ignore those numbers because they don't fit in my fantasy."

In any case, if a goalie plays bad in front of one team and exceptionally well in front of another, are you really telling me the goalie magically gets worse while switching teams... or could a bit of blame be placed on the team in front of them? A case in point: Look at Saros' and Husso's stats on various junior levels outside major tournament play. Pretty brutal too. It's all because they were playing in front of teams that were still in the process of separating the wheat from the chaff.

Rest assured, however, the final iteration of Team Finland will be done separating, and will NOT be playing as bad.

Gotta say you're the rudest poster I've ever seen on Hfboards lol
Edit: Some of my fellow leaf fans are worse but you're up there!

On a side note the Fins are very strong this year KK Laine and Pulju are all great goal scorers
 
Okay, this all boils down to this. Can this Jalonen dude create such an athmosphere in the team that the home crowd and expectations turn into a resource and strength. Sure, he should be capable to handle the individulals also. Both. And I am pretty reliable on that part of the puzzle.

I trust his experience also as a coach of a disciplined and structured collective game.

So, all in all: Gold is Finland's to lose. No kidding. I think they can pull it off like that Karri Kivi's bunch did two years ago. At junior level a capable tactical coach can do wonders. And Jalonen is no green horn.
This, pretty much. For example, people who call the "badness"* of our defense as the reason why our guys can't go far obviously can't grasp that you don't need an all-star defense to keep a low-scoring game if your game plan is up to snuff.

Of course, one key issue with an offensively talented team is finding the balance between committing to the common game plan and allowing them to be creative. If you rein 'em in too much, all that raw skill will be for naught. To which I have to say... I'm happy Erkka isn't the coach.

Let's hope Jalonen can find that balance. To be frank though, I'm not certain how apt it is to compare the situation to that two years back. For Kivi it was kind of a non-issue, since he only had one unit he needed to give a longer leash. His plan was to clearly let Teräväinen & co make the magic happen while the rest of them mostly concentrated on frustrating the opposition.

*Or should we say, "namelessness", as in typical HFBoards fashion, people assume "haven't heard of them = can't be very good".


Any chance Vaakanainen makes the team?
People have varying opinions of his chances, but if you want the official word, our coach said it's up to him.
 
Quite right; but didn't they crash down one year earlier with a relatively 'deep' team coached by mr. "chance"?

And Rasmus Ristolainen is the go to guy in the D this team lacks. But just how desperately come the knock out games?

Yeah the 2013 tournament was choke for sure.
 
Any chance Vaakanainen makes the team?

Right now all players has chance to take spot in final world junior roster including Vaakanainen.
Finland will cut their roster after exhibition games next Tuesday and Finland world junior team will announced next Wednesday ( 23 December)

Only goalies ( Vehviläinen,Kähkönen, Larmi) and Mikko Rantanen are already locked
 
Only goalies ( Vehviläinen,Kähkönen, Larmi) and Mikko Rantanen are already locked
Those that are officially locked. Jalonen has also stated that about 2/3 of the team has been picked already, and some of them know, too.
 
This, pretty much. For example, people who call the "badness"* of our defense as the reason why our guys can't go far obviously can't grasp that you don't need an all-star defense to keep a low-scoring game if your game plan is up to snuff.

Of course, one key issue with an offensively talented team is finding the balance between committing to the common game plan and allowing them to be creative. If you rein 'em in too much, all that raw skill will be for naught. To which I have to say... I'm happy Erkka isn't the coach.

Let's hope Jalonen can find that balance. To be frank though, I'm not certain how apt it is to compare the situation to that two years back. For Kivi it was kind of a non-issue, since he only had one unit he needed to give a longer leash. His plan was to clearly let Teräväinen & co make the magic happen while the rest of them mostly concentrated on frustrating the opposition.

*Or should we say, "namelessness", as in typical HFBoards fashion, people assume "haven't heard of them = can't be very good".

Well put, as usually, mr. FiLe. -- How would you describe or characterize Jalonen vs. Erkka btw. I am not on the chart in this one actually. What kind of coach is Erkka? A pedant emphasizing defense at the expense of creative offense?

But Jalonen is the "Our game" guru, correct? -- I thought Erkka is more up to date in his philosophy of "reactive hockey"? I admit, I am a bit lost here. - So, enlighten me once again, mr. FiLe. :nod:

Edit: For me the main difference between these two, never met each, comes down to the personal level of assertiveness. Their different leadership styles, more exactly. Erkka is a bit awkward in that department tbh and with these kids he would simply be more ore less lost. His style is procedural. -- Jalonen has more charisma in his perosnality and leadership. He style is transformational. And he is much more home with these kids.
 
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Most likely not.

Actually I know the USA vs U-Mass game on Friday is being streamed online this coming Friday via a link on the USA hockey website...so there might be a live stream up for the Finland game as well.
 
Well put, as usually, mr. FiLe. -- How would you describe or characterize Jalonen vs. Erkka btw. I am not on the chart in this one actually. What kind of coach is Erkka? A pedant emphasizing defense at the expense of creative offense?

But Jalonen is the "Our game" guru, correct? -- I thought Erkka is more up to date in his philosophy of "reactive hockey"? I admit, I am a bit lost here. - So, enlighten me once again, mr. FiLe. :nod:

Edit: For me the main difference between these two, never met each, comes down to the personal level of assertiveness. Their different leadership styles, more exactly. Erkka is a bit awkward in that department tbh and with these kids he would simply be more ore less lost. His style is procedural. -- Jalonen has more charisma in his perosnality and leadership. He style is transformational. And he is much more home with these kids.
My comment about Erkka was a bit in jest. He lost points with me with his Team Grindland at the WHC two years back, but there's no saying he couldn't adapt his style to helm a team loaded with offensive skill.

Regardless, Erkka's basic stance still is defense-first. Not nihilistically so, as he allows creativity - but only as far as executing one's defensive duties leaves room for it. Technically, players are allowed to do whatever they will past the offensive blueline, as long as they're ready at all times to beeline it back to defense. Erkka also likes to build his teams somewhat to follow this philosophy, as was evident with that WHC team I mentioned. Plus Jokerit ATM, to a degree. So perhaps the biggest risk with him would be that he'd snub some of our offensive juggernauts in favor of an additional grinder or two.

Jalonen at his worst admittedly wanted to be in control of the game at all zones. It was perhaps the main reason why the Vancouver tournament seemed so full of toils for him.

But I'm not calling that bad means of coaching in and of itself. It was more that some of the NT oldtimers had perhaps gotten a tad too content with different coaching culture. "Our Game" was mainly designed to create success with the not-so-talented class of 80-borns. And when Jalonen did get a team that bought the idea - as he did in 2011 - the results were, well, exceptional.

Besides, Jalonen has proven to be quite prone to learn from his mistakes and adapt his style based on the material he has. Plus he's always been big on encouraging young players especially to use their strengths.

You could say there are three schools to coaching. Type A is trying to tune the players into whatever game plan one has - whether offense-heavy or defense-heavy. Type B involves tuning the game plan instead to match the players. And Type C involves tuning both to find the perfect balance. And let it be said that none of these schools are neither good or bad - they can all thrive and generate success in the right environment.

I figure Erkka is mainly a Type A coach, while Jalonen is more of a Type C. Which is why I view him as the better match for the team we'll have here, since it is bit of a mixed bag, with defense needing perhaps slightly more fine-tuning than offense. Our Game may still loom in the background, but it's a new class with new skillz, so while not completely gone, I do feel it's gone through a bit of a makeover. Plus, of course, as you alluded yourself, Jalonen is extremely charismatic. That's always a big plus especially when dealing with kids.


Btw, there's no need for titles. Just "FiLe" will do fine, no need for all the "sirs" and "misters". Well... if you absolutely insisted, I might accept a "Your Excellency, Honorable FiLe" here and there.



Is there an official starting goalie yet ?
Nope. Looks like the same formula with Kähkönen and Vehviläinen as it was with Saros and Husso. Both will get games in the group stage and the one who fares better will tend the net going forward. You'll just have to pick one or the other for your pool.
 
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One quick point to the Jalonen debate - for all his faults out of the coaches at WJC usually, Jalonen would be like a 1st overall pick in the draft. While the other coaches would usually be like 4th round selections.
Some teams have better coaches than others, but Jalonen should clearly be the clear favourite, top ranked coach going into this tournament.
 
One quick point to the Jalonen debate - for all his faults out of the coaches at WJC usually, Jalonen would be like a 1st overall pick in the draft. While the other coaches would usually be like 4th round selections.
Some teams have better coaches than others, but Jalonen should clearly be the clear favourite, top ranked coach going into this tournament.

The US team will be coached by Ron Wilson, who coached in the NHL for like two decades and has won silver at the Olympics. Not to take anything away from Jalonen, but I think that bumps him down to #2, at least in terms of accomplishments.
 
The US team will be coached by Ron Wilson, who coached in the NHL for like two decades and has won silver at the Olympics. Not to take anything away from Jalonen, but I think that bumps him down to #2, at least in terms of accomplishments.

Ron Wilson is a brutal coach lol
 
One quick point to the Jalonen debate - for all his faults out of the coaches at WJC usually, Jalonen would be like a 1st overall pick in the draft. While the other coaches would usually be like 4th round selections.
Some teams have better coaches than others, but Jalonen should clearly be the clear favourite, top ranked coach going into this tournament.

What???
 
Ron Wilson is a brutal coach lol

He really isn't.
Carlyle is also a decent coach, was sought after - is still dealing with the Toronto hangover and will likely see similar response as Wilson.

That doesn't mean I like him, but he is a good coach and think this is a good opportunity to get back out there with a strong US Jr. team.
 
He really isn't.
Carlyle is also a decent coach, was sought after - is still dealing with the Toronto hangover and will likely see similar response as Wilson.

That doesn't mean I like him, but he is a good coach and think this is a good opportunity to get back out there with a strong US Jr. team.

If you ask HF's opinion, every single coach in the whole world is terrible :laugh: . Anyhow, my point was only that two decades of NHL experience should put someone pretty close to the top in terms of expectations. You gotta do something right to stick around that long, right?

This really isn't the thread to discuss Wilson's merits though, I only brought him up to point out that there are plenty of capable coaches in this competition and we(Finnish fans that is) should not think that we have some kind of huge advantage in this regard.
 
If we go by merit, I think Wilson has somewhat more than Jalonen.

If we go by "raw" coaching skill, there's really no way to measure that. Even a coach with little merit can figure just fine how to handle his team and this tournament.


We Finns have a good one, and he's just the man I want to see helming this team, but I wouldn't go as far as say he'd go "first overall" if there was coaches' draft.
 
(...)
I figure Erkka is mainly as a Type A coach, while Jalonen is more of a Type C. Which is why I view him as the better match for the team we'll have here, since it is bit of a mixed bag, with defense needing perhaps slightly more fine-tuning than offense. Our Game may still loom in the background, but it's a new class with new skillz, so while not completely gone, I do feel it's gone through a bit of a makeover. Plus, of course, as you alluded yourself, Jalonen is extremely charismatic. That's always a big plus especially when dealing with kids.


Btw, there's no need for titles. Just "FiLe" will do fine, no need for all the "sirs" and "misters". Well... if you absolutely insisted, I might accept a "Your Excellency, Honorable FiLe" here and there.

An excellent write up, Your Excellence, Honorable - eh - Mr. File. :D

Nothing less did I expect form You, sire.
 
I can see the Finns have a very strong offence this tournament, but I don't know anything about their goalies. Is there a clear starter? Is this a potential soft spot for Finland, or am I just another North American who doesn't know anything about European prospects?
 
I can see the Finns have a very strong offence this tournament, but I don't know anything about their goalies. Is there a clear starter? Is this a potential soft spot for Finland, or am I just another North American who doesn't know anything about European prospects?

I wouldn't call it a "soft" spot. One of the Vehvilainen/Kahkonen duo should get the starter job after round robin.

Besides, Finland will outscore the opponents at will rather than play it safe and shutout way. :popcorn:
 
He really isn't.
Carlyle is also a decent coach, was sought after - is still dealing with the Toronto hangover and will likely see similar response as Wilson.

That doesn't mean I like him, but he is a good coach and think this is a good opportunity to get back out there with a strong US Jr. team.

:laugh: He managed to ruin one whole Ducks season by skating the players to "death" during training camp, as if it was the 80's again when players didn't train as much on their own as they do now. The players legs were like cement until December/January and by then, the damage had already been done.
 

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