News Article: 2015 traded away NHL Draft Picks

[deeshamrock]

This is a list of what picks teams traded away in the 2015 Draft

http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/2015/05/25/2015-traded-nhl-draft-picks/

Rutherford giving away Depres was a head scratcher, but also that #`16 overall for Perron. Shero did that same move for years (trading away youth for the 'quick fix' that will be the difference) and as a result,the Pens have a much thinner crop of prospects. You'd think he'd have had that history in mind .
Some stuff from the Gazette (pitts newspaper ) saying now he's trying to get back a 1st round pick, making calls around the league to see if any GM's wil bite. I still can't any benefit to the Pens naming himGM, didn't get it then , still don't.

Hawks lost their first round for Vermette, and 2nd and 3rd for Kimmo

I wonder how busy the phone lines will be that day, seems quite a few teams trying to trade up.

Click to read more...

 

[YP44]

the perron trade was not bad for the pens. he was not a rental, and I doubt anyone would have thought the penguins were going to be picking out of the bottom 10 when the deal went down
generalfanager.com is neat to see how many picks each team has as well

 

[Mattias]

This is a list of what picks teams traded away in the 2015 Draft

http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/2015/05/25/2015-traded-nhl-draft-picks/

Rutherford giving away Depres was a head scratcher, but also that #`16 overall for Perron. Shero did that same move for years (trading away youth for the 'quick fix' that will be the difference) and as a result,the Pens have a much thinner crop of prospects. You'd think he'd have had that history in mind .
Some stuff from the Gazette (pitts newspaper ) saying now he's trying to get back a 1st round pick, making calls around the league to see if any GM's wil bite. I still can't any benefit to the Pens naming himGM, didn't get it then , still don't.

Hawks lost their first round for Vermette, and 2nd and 3rd for Kimmo

I wonder how busy the phone lines will be that day, seems quite a few teams trying to trade up.

What a goof.

I can understand trading youth and 1st round picks if the benefit brings deep cup runs or a cup (hello Carter!) but Perron is not even close to a gamechanger. Now trying to claw back up to a first round pick looks pitiful. At best, he will be short changed on his assets from teams that have multiple first round picks, and I doubt they trade those picks whatsoever.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

That Despres trade may go down as one of the worst trades a team has made over the past few years at the trade deadline.

A young up and comer who can log top 4 minutes for friggin' Ben Lovejoy. While the Penguins do have a few good quality young dmen, the future is not so bright for that organization. That team lacks depth and have very little in the pipeline.

I do wonder if Edmonton will move the first round pick they received from Pittsburgh to acquire an established defenseman.

 

[LAKings88]

Never liked Rutherford. Can't believe they hired him.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

Never liked Rutherford. Can't believe they hired him.

this

 

[LAKings88]

Brayden McNabb/Alex Lintuniemi + #43 in 2015

for

Fasching + Deslauriers is looking pretty good at this point.

 

[damacles1156]

Alex Lintuniemi Is going to be the best player out of that trade if you ask me.

Kid is really opening some eyes.

 

[YP44]

this

seconded...was very confused when he was hired by the pens

 

[kingsfan]

this

seconded...was very confused when he was hired by the pens

Thirded....or fourtheded... or fifthededed, losing count in this thread.

Rutherford was a crappy GM in Carolina whose only real resume check point was getting a cup in 2006. He traded three firsts for Glen Wesley, traded Chris Pronger for Shanahan when Shanny didn't even want to come to Hartford, couldn't draft for very well, especially outside the first round, and when he did draft a decent player, he'd trade him before his prime (JS Giguere, Andrew Ladd, for example, or how about Jack Johnson for Eric Belanger and Tim Gleason anyone? Who trades a 3rd overall pick before you even sign him?)

The guy liked youth about as much as Cruella De Vil liked puppies.

He was GM in Carolina/Hartford for 19 years and made the playoffs five times. His teams did well when they actually got into the playoffs, making the third round three of those five years, but in a league where over 50 per cent of teams make the playoffs each year, you have to almost be borderline ******** or the GM of the Leafs to only make the playoffs five out of 19 times.

The Pens will be rebuilding under him within three years. Or should I say retooling because he couldn't pull off a rebuild if had the blueprints to do so.

 

[YP44]

Thirded....or fourtheded... or fifthededed, losing count in this thread.

Rutherford was a crappy GM in Carolina whose only real resume check point was getting a cup in 2006. He traded three firsts for Glen Wesley, traded Chris Pronger for Shanahan when Shanny didn't even want to come to Hartford, couldn't draft for very well, especially outside the first round, and when he did draft a decent player, he'd trade him before his prime (JS Giguere, Andrew Ladd, for example, or how about Jack Johnson for Eric Belanger and Tim Gleason anyone? Who trades a 3rd overall pick before you even sign him?)

The guy liked youth about as much as Cruella De Vil liked puppies.

He was GM in Carolina/Hartford for 19 years and made the playoffs five times. His teams did well when they actually got into the playoffs, making the third round three of those five years, but in a league where over 50 per cent of teams make the playoffs each year, you have to almost be borderline ******** or the GM of the Leafs to only make the playoffs five out of 19 times.

The Pens will be rebuilding under him within three years. Or should I say retooling because he couldn't pull off a rebuild if had the blueprints to do so.

I was looking at NHL trade tracker and he really hasn't done a heck of alot.

 

[Whiskeypete]

This is a list of what picks teams traded away in the 2015 Draft

http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/2015/05/25/2015-traded-nhl-draft-picks/

Rutherford giving away Depres was a head scratcher, but also that #`16 overall for Perron. Shero did that same move for years (trading away youth for the 'quick fix' that will be the difference) and as a result,the Pens have a much thinner crop of prospects. You'd think he'd have had that history in mind .
Some stuff from the Gazette (pitts newspaper ) saying now he's trying to get back a 1st round pick, making calls around the league to see if any GM's wil bite. I still can't any benefit to the Pens naming himGM, didn't get it then , still don't.

Hawks lost their first round for Vermette, and 2nd and 3rd for Kimmo

I wonder how busy the phone lines will be that day, seems quite a few teams trying to trade up.

the CHI moves are really being questioned here in Chicago, especially the trade for kimmo. every person i know here that follows them and knows anything just roll their eyes when that comes up. they aren't pleased with the loss of a 1st for a rental, but losing the 2nd and 3rd for a guy on two bum legs that logs less than 10 minutes is killing them.

Bowman is slowly killing the Hawks......and i like it

with the Toews and Kane contracts hitting the cap next year, the amount of RFAs/UFAs, lack of defense, questionable goalies, etc. the Hawks are likely going to be very different in the coming years.

 

[Brodeur]

Rutherford was a crappy GM in Carolina whose only real resume check point was getting a cup in 2006. He traded three firsts for Glen Wesley, traded Chris Pronger for Shanahan when Shanny didn't even want to come to Hartford, couldn't draft for very well, especially outside the first round, and when he did draft a decent player, he'd trade him before his prime (JS Giguere, Andrew Ladd, for example, or how about Jack Johnson for Eric Belanger and Tim Gleason anyone? Who trades a 3rd overall pick before you even sign him?)

The Wesley one was a head scratcher, although I was a new-ish fan at the time. I suppose it's easy to look back now and know that Wesley wasn't worth it, but he just turned 26 and was coming off of a 58 point season. To that point, he had been a solid 40+ point defender.

Another factor might have been that Peter Karmanos bought the team in 1994. So they might have been impatient and wanted to improve a team that hadn't been out of the first round since 1986. We kinda saw that recently when Terry Pegula bought the Sabres and they went on a dubious spending spree for Christian Ehrhoff and Ville Leino.

The somewhat amazing thing was that the Bruins weren't able to turn those picks (which all ended up being in the top 10) into something more substantial. They got Kyle McLaren in 1995 who had a few good years but probably isn't somebody you'd lose sleep over. 1996 was an awful year and Boston took a guy named Johnathan Aitken. Then in 1997, Sergei Samsonov unexpectedly was available at #8. Samsonov started off well but didn't turn out to be the star that some thought he'd be.

Another component of the Johnson trade was the Kings taking Oleg Tverdovsky's deal. The Hurricanes had immediate buyer's remorse and wanted to dump him. Tverdovsky made 2.5 million and the cap was ~44 mil (roughly the same as somebody making 3.9 mil against this year's cap). For Carolina, the trade was Johnson for Gleason, Belanger, and 5 million. The Johnsons reluctance to sign with Carolina has been documented.

Pronger was getting the Sydor treatment in Hartford from what I've read.

 

[LAKings88]

Alex Lintuniemi Is going to be the best player out of that trade if you ask me.

Kid is really opening some eyes.

Excited about him.

Miller Forbort Lintuniemi Ebert Gravel

 

[kingsfan]

The Wesley one was a head scratcher, although I was a new-ish fan at the time. I suppose it's easy to look back now and know that Wesley wasn't worth it, but he just turned 26 and was coming off of a 58 point season. To that point, he had been a solid 40+ point defender.

Another factor might have been that Peter Karmanos bought the team in 1994. So they might have been impatient and wanted to improve a team that hadn't been out of the first round since 1986. We kinda saw that recently when Terry Pegula bought the Sabres and they went on a dubious spending spree for Christian Ehrhoff and Ville Leino.

The somewhat amazing thing was that the Bruins weren't able to turn those picks (which all ended up being in the top 10) into something more substantial. They got Kyle McLaren in 1995 who had a few good years but probably isn't somebody you'd lose sleep over. 1996 was an awful year and Boston took a guy named Johnathan Aitken. Then in 1997, Sergei Samsonov unexpectedly was available at #8. Samsonov started off well but didn't turn out to be the star that some thought he'd be.

Another component of the Johnson trade was the Kings taking Oleg Tverdovsky's deal. The Hurricanes had immediate buyer's remorse and wanted to dump him. Tverdovsky made 2.5 million and the cap was ~44 mil (roughly the same as somebody making 3.9 mil against this year's cap). For Carolina, the trade was Johnson for Gleason, Belanger, and 5 million. The Johnsons reluctance to sign with Carolina has been documented.

Pronger was getting the Sydor treatment in Hartford from what I've read.

Wesley largely road Bourque's coattails as his partner. The fact Boston didn't matter the RFA offer and Wesley's production fell way off after is telling.

And you can't view it as Aitken, McLaren and Samsonov for Wesley, thats not the true trade/compensation. It was 3 1sts for Wesley, which is a gross overpayment. It'd be similar to someone giving us 3 1sts for Muzzin now. He's a good D-man but not worth that.

And whether or not Karmanos wanted to turn the team around is irrelevant. You want to part with 3 1sts, go ahead. You get proper value for them.

On Tverdovsky: A) That was Rutherford's contract to Tverdovsky in the first place, B) Using the 3rd overall pick 15 months or so after you used it to unload a bad contract is piss poor asset management.

And if Pronger was getting the Sydor treatment, that's on Rutherford as well. The GM that did the Sydor treatment in LA was Sam 'The Disaster' McMaster. Rutherford isn't far off.

 

[Brodeur]

Wesley largely road Bourque's coattails as his partner. The fact Boston didn't matter the RFA offer and Wesley's production fell way off after is telling.

And you can't view it as Aitken, McLaren and Samsonov for Wesley, thats not the true trade/compensation. It was 3 1sts for Wesley, which is a gross overpayment. It'd be similar to someone giving us 3 1sts for Muzzin now. He's a good D-man but not worth that.

And whether or not Karmanos wanted to turn the team around is irrelevant. You want to part with 3 1sts, go ahead. You get proper value for them.

Filling in the blanks does give a better idea though. I think we as fans hear "first rounder" and automatically assume it's a future All-Star waiting to happen. Especially in 1996 when everybody knew ahead of time it was a terrible draft. Speaking of McMaster, the Kings ended up sending the 4th overall pick that year for Khristich/Dafoe.

I don't disagree with you on Wesley being an above average defender on a good thing, nor am I saying Rutherford was a good GM. And at least for Hartford/Carolina, Wesley stuck around.

On Tverdovsky: A) That was Rutherford's contract to Tverdovsky in the first place, B) Using the 3rd overall pick 15 months or so after you used it to unload a bad contract is piss poor asset management.

And if Pronger was getting the Sydor treatment, that's on Rutherford as well. The GM that did the Sydor treatment in LA was Sam 'The Disaster' McMaster. Rutherford isn't far off.

Again, I don't disagree with you. Tverdovsky has the strange distinction of being on two Stanley Cup champion teams where he was a healthy scratch for Game 7. Carolina almost had a deal in place to send Johnson to Pittsburgh for the 2nd overall pick in 2006. Somehow the negotiations got that toxic that they were willing to move Johnson a year later.

An 'in his prime' Shanahan for a young Pronger isn't a terrible deal. Obviously it didn't work out when Shanahan begged for a trade and they had to settle for Primeau and couple of late firsts.

 

[kingsfan]

Welsey was sent to Harford on August 25, 1994. No one, especially Rutherford, had a crystal ball to indicate the 1996 draft would be that bad nearly two years before it occurred.

 

[YP44]

Filling in the blanks does give a better idea though. I think we as fans hear "first rounder" and automatically assume it's a future All-Star waiting to happen. Especially in 1996 when everybody knew ahead of time it was a terrible draft. Speaking of McMaster, the Kings ended up sending the 4th overall pick that year for Khristich/Dafoe.

I don't disagree with you on Wesley being an above average defender on a good thing, nor am I saying Rutherford was a good GM. And at least for Hartford/Carolina, Wesley stuck around.



Again, I don't disagree with you. Tverdovsky has the strange distinction of being on two Stanley Cup champion teams where he was a healthy scratch for Game 7. Carolina almost had a deal in place to send Johnson to Pittsburgh for the 2nd overall pick in 2006. Somehow the negotiations got that toxic that they were willing to move Johnson a year later.

An 'in his prime' Shanahan for a young Pronger isn't a terrible deal. Obviously it didn't work out when Shanahan begged for a trade and they had to settle for Primeau and couple of late firsts.

Well Rutherford got j Staal to Carolina in the end anyway

 

[kingsfan]

Well Rutherford got j Staal to Carolina in the end anyway

Yet another brilliant move.

 

[Brodeur]

Welsey was sent to Harford on August 25, 1994. No one, especially Rutherford, had a crystal ball to indicate the 1996 draft would be that bad nearly two years before it occurred.

Teams might have had an indication though. The Major junior leagues would have had their drafts and word would have trickled up that the pool wasn't nearly the same. Gare Joyce wrote a book where he got to ride shotgun with Columbus for their 2006/07 Drafts. Part of his book noted how the team had very early scouting reports for guys like Kessel and Brassard.

Here's a 2009 article from The Hockey News where one scout is worried about the quality of Canadian forwards in the 2012 Draft Class: http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/24538-A-Scouts-Life-2012-draft-looking-weak.html

Though it’s far away still, it seems the 2012 NHL draft could be the next down year. While discussing draft classes for the 2009 crop of WHLers and '10 crop of QMJHLers and OHLers – who will largely form that 2012 NHL crew – scouts from St. John to Vancouver mentioned how this was an off-year.

“I just think it happens to be one of those years where it’s not as dominant at the top and you’ll say, ‘But we’ve got the depth,’ but I just don’t think we have the depth to offset the lack of the bona fide top identifiable player,” one CHL scout said.

Relative to the perception of ’09 and '10 being soft CHL drafts overall, it’s a strong crop of defensemen at the top end. But as a scout, you have to put it all in proper context before making a commitment.

“We’ve been spoiled with good drafts all in a row, but I don’t see the skill in this one up front,” said a CHL scout. “That’s why I wonder, ‘Well, are these defensemen that good, or is it that there’s just no one to go up against them?’

The top three CHL forwards ended up being imports (Yakupov/Galchenyuk/Faksa). The first Canadian forward taken was Tom Wilson which is definitely unusual. So the scout in 2009 ended up having a reasonable impression of a future draft class.

 

[kingsfan]

Teams might have had an indication though. The Major junior leagues would have had their drafts and word would have trickled up that the pool wasn't nearly the same. Gare Joyce wrote a book where he got to ride shotgun with Columbus for their 2006/07 Drafts. Part of his book noted how the team had very early scouting reports for guys like Kessel and Brassard.

Here's a 2009 article from The Hockey News where one scout is worried about the quality of Canadian forwards in the 2012 Draft Class: http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/24538-A-Scouts-Life-2012-draft-looking-weak.html





The top three CHL forwards ended up being imports (Yakupov/Galchenyuk/Faksa). The first Canadian forward taken was Tom Wilson which is definitely unusual. So the scout in 2009 ended up having a reasonable impression of a future draft class.

Teams have early scouting reports on kids as young as 13. Crosby was in the spotlight at 12. That's nothing unusual.

To declare a draft as weak or bad or terrible two years ahead, or three as in your example (though it speaks of the Canadian content, not the overall content), is flawed. And now we can look back at the 2012 draft with only three years hindsight (scouts will tell you to give five years before looking back at a draft, so more players could be coming) and we have Ryan Murray, Alex Galchenyuk, Morgan Rielly, Hampus Lindholm, Matthew Dumba, Jacob Trouba, Filip Forsberg, Zemgus Girgensons, Cody Ceci, Tomas Hertl, Olli Maatta and Tanner Pearson all from just the first round and all are at or nearly core players. 24 of 30 have played in the NHL and three of the six who haven't are still in college/university (four if you count Brady Skjei you signed really late last season). Guys like Derrick Pouliot, Andrei Vasilevsky and Scott Laughton are considered elite prospects. The 2012 may not be a smash it out of the park draft like 2003, but it is a very solid draft class.

 

[Brodeur]

The scout noted that the D was decent [Murray/Reinhart/Dumba/etc]. Galchenyuk was an import out of the Chicago at that point. Pearson was a late bloomer and was a 3rd time draft eligible in 2012, so he wouldn't necessarily be part of that pool in 2009.

It's just interesting for me to dig deeper into those 90s trades since I was a new fan at the time and didn't know the context. Sometimes you find some jewels, like Scottie Bowman praising the Sharks for taking Teemu Riihijarvi in 1995. Or in this case, Rutherford declaring Wesley a top 10 defenseman in the NHL at the time of the trade which was dubious at the time but hilarious with hindsight.

 

[kingsfan]

The scout noted that the D was decent [Murray/Reinhart/Dumba/etc]. Galchenyuk was an import out of the Chicago at that point. Pearson was a late bloomer and was a 3rd time draft eligible in 2012, so he wouldn't necessarily be part of that pool in 2009.

It's just interesting for me to dig deeper into those 90s trades since I was a new fan at the time and didn't know the context. Sometimes you find some jewels, like Scottie Bowman praising the Sharks for taking Teemu Riihijarvi in 1995. Or in this case, Rutherford declaring Wesley a top 10 defenseman in the NHL at the time of the trade which was dubious at the time but hilarious with hindsight.

The bolded is exactly why you don't label a draft class weak/strong etc. I bet in 2009 most scouts would have said Pearson would be a busboy or telemarketer in 2015 before they'd have pegged him as a cup champ and NHL regular. In 2009 you are talking about 15 year old kids.

A good measurement to indicate how much kids can change is to look up the bantam drafts for the CHL leagues. For every Crosby that goes first overall, there's a Ryan Hollweg or Jarrett Smith.

Here's a list of all first overall picks in the WHL from 1994 to 2007 and how they faired out as well as where some of the better players from that draft went. The list of 1st overall picks includes Jarrett Stoll and Colten Teubert.

http://westernelitehockeyprospects.com/bantam-prospects/bantam-draft-study-part-1.html