2015 Re-Draft, you have the 3rd pick overall

[Cotton]

I'd be surprised if Barzal ends up with only 55 points for no other reason than he's going to be the Islanders' 1C, getting all the cushy minutes that 1Cs get.

It's incredibly rare for a team's 1C to produce that little. Usually the teams who accomplish the feat are ones who don't really have a legitimate 1C and are playing lesser talented 2Cs in that spot out of necessity.

DingDingDing

 

[The Winter Soldier]

There are really only 3 choices for #3 OA. In terms of need, when talent is similar. Most teams will go with the potential franchise #1 Center or #1 D man.

This is why I have Barzal or Provorov as the #3 pick.

Provorov's stats may not jump out at you, but any Flyers fan knows he has been pretty much a #1D man since he came into the league.

Players like Provorov and Barzal don't come a long often, that were not #1OA picks. They really fit the bill here at #3.

 

[LeafFever]

Not nearly as overrated as Marner. The on pace for 90 plus point posts in the second half are ridiculous. He’s a 69 point player at this point. Barzal is an 85 point player. Rookies who put up those type of points don’t crash and burn. They become superstars. Leaf fans seem to have a bit of an agenda with Barzal. I wonder why?

Marner got 69 points with 16:28 of TOI. There's Patrick Laine that can match that in regards to minutes and points, no one else.
You're being a stat watcher and nothing else. Marner was elite once he finally got put in a permanent top 6 role.
There was a thread on here comparing Marner to Yakupov. He' is certainly not overrated.
So because Marner had 69 points he can't be a superstar? Marnerw ould have been PPG+ if he had the minutes and opportunity Barzal had,

 

[Disappointed EP40]

1) Marner
2) Provorov
3) Barzal
4) Werenski
5) Boeser

Good to see ppl disregard their biases to really legitimize a discussion.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

Marner got 69 points with 16:28 of TOI. There's Patrick Laine that can match that in regards to minutes and points, no one else.
You're being a stat watcher and nothing else. Marner was elite once he finally got put in a permanent top 6 role.
There was a thread on here comparing Marner to Yakupov. He' is certainly not overrated.
So because Marner had 69 points he can't be a superstar? Marnerw ould have been PPG+ if he had the minutes and opportunity Barzal had,

But he didn't ffs.

So cringe worthy.

 

[LeafFever]

But he didn't ffs.

So cringe worthy.

It's not. You like being able to say Marner has never hit 70 points. He has yet to play a full year as a top 6 forward yet has seasons of 61 and 69 points. People are vastly underrating him and not looking at the big picture.
Should he have had 85 points? No one in the NHl would have been able to with that role.

 

[tucker3434]

Marner got 69 points with 16:28 of TOI. There's Patrick Laine that can match that in regards to minutes and points, no one else.
You're being a stat watcher and nothing else. Marner was elite once he finally got put in a permanent top 6 role.
There was a thread on here comparing Marner to Yakupov. He' is certainly not overrated.
So because Marner had 69 points he can't be a superstar? Marnerw ould have been PPG+ if he had the minutes and opportunity Barzal had,

People keep pointing out Marner’s ice time but his p/60 was lower than both Barzal and Rantanen.

It isn’t even a given that pace will scale up, so you’ve got to give the benefit of the doubt to the guys that had better pace and actual.

 

[LeafFever]

People keep pointing out Marner’s ice time but his p/60 was lower than both Barzal and Rantanen.

It isn’t even a given that pace will scale up, so you’ve got to give the benefit of the doubt to the guys that had better pace and actual.

TOI is a big issue whether you want to state it or not.

 

[tucker3434]

TOI is a big issue whether you want to state it or not.

But even if he was given the same ice time and maintained his current pace, he wouldn’t have outscored those two.

 

[93LEAFS]

I'd be surprised if Barzal ends up with only 55 points for no other reason than he's going to be the Islanders' 1C, getting all the cushy minutes that 1Cs get.

It's incredibly rare for a team's 1C to produce that little. Usually the teams who accomplish the feat are ones who don't really have a legitimate 1C and are playing lesser talented 2Cs in that spot out of necessity.

Without significant injuries, players don't drop 30 points. I'd think the max he could drop over 82 games is 65 points, and that is the low-end.

 

[LeafFever]

But even if he was given the same ice time and maintained his current pace, he wouldn’t have outscored those two.

That includes games on the 4th line. Marner will be with Tavares for his first full season as a top 6 forward. He'll show where he belongs to people who only care about point totals.

 

[93LEAFS]

But even if he was given the same ice time and maintained his current pace, he wouldn’t have outscored those two.

I don't think people expect the Avs PP success rate and ability to draw PP to continue. He's riding high in most areas. People are hoping that Marner gets significantly more PP time. For a player who has shown to be as elite at he is on the PP throughout his NHL and junior career, getting 2:20 a game is on the low-end. If the Leafs players have a significant uptick in points, most of it will be caused by Babs shifting to a stacked top unit, instead of dividing the top 2 units equally. While Rantanen helped fuel it, the big question with him, is how much of it was MacKinnon, and was that a career year for MacKinnon, or is this what to expect from him from now on.

 

[LeafFever]

Mike Babcock artificially brings-down the Leafs players stats with his usage.

 

[AuraSphere]

1. McDavid
2. Eichel
3. Barzal
4. Provorov
5. Marner
6. Boeser
7. Werenski
8. Rantanen

 

[The S5]

Some Leafs fans need to get over the fact that his is an opinion board and opinions may differ. If you think the answer to this post is Marner, great. Others may not and no amount of whining will change that fact.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Some Leafs fans need to get over the fact that his is an opinion board and opinions may differ. If you think the answer to this post is Marner, great. Others may not and no amount of whining will change that fact.

When it comes to Marner, I think a better question as it pertains to him is who is the best winger from the 2015 draft?

Rantanen
Boeser
Connor

Have all given themselves a realistic shot of being that player. Marner is not a #3 pick in this draft with Barzal and Provorov in it at this point. He would vastly have to outproduce Barzal to even have someone consider taking him over a #1 franchise Center. Or a Franchise D man that Provorov is.

There is even a case to be made Rantanen and Boeser are better at this point. And not to leave Connor out, he is only the 2nd player in this draft to score 30+ goals in only 76 games. Already a proven 30 goal scorer at 21.

 

[1865]

Im a fan of offensive Ds.

Provorov scored more goals and assists than them both last year.

 

[Mrb1p]

Provorov scored more goals and assists than them both last year.

Yes... and?

 

[tucker3434]

I don't think people expect the Avs PP success rate and ability to draw PP to continue. He's riding high in most areas. People are hoping that Marner gets significantly more PP time. For a player who has shown to be as elite at he is on the PP throughout his NHL and junior career, getting 2:20 a game is on the low-end. If the Leafs players have a significant uptick in points, most of it will be caused by Babs shifting to a stacked top unit, instead of dividing the top 2 units equally. While Rantanen helped fuel it, the big question with him, is how much of it was MacKinnon, and was that a career year for MacKinnon, or is this what to expect from him from now on.

I was looking at ESP/60. PP wouldn’t matter.

You guys are telling us why Marner will have a season that will match what Barzal and Rantanen have already done. I’m not necessarily saying he won’t, but until he does, it’s pretty reasonable to have the other guys higher.

Maybe last year was Rantanen’s career year. But it could’ve been Marner’s too. We just don’t know yet.

 

[1865]

Yes... and?

I didn't think i'd have to elaborate on that. Provorov is better defensively and scored more goals and assists this season than both of the players you put above him. I just wondered as to how and why. I mean, we're all due our opinions but i'm curious.

 

[Mrb1p]

I didn't think i'd have to elaborate on that. Provorov is better defensively and scored more goals and assists this season than both of the players you put above him. I just wondered as to how and why. I mean, we're all due our opinions but i'm curious.

Im able to do a basic search on google, like most, obviously I know what he did this year.

Just a year ago Werenski put up 17 more points than Provorov.

These guys arent even 22 yet, what if I told you they still have a lot of room to grow?

 

[93LEAFS]

I was looking at ESP/60. PP wouldn’t matter.

You guys are telling us why Marner will have a season that will match what Barzal and Rantanen have already done. I’m not necessarily saying he won’t, but until he does, it’s pretty reasonable to have the other guys higher.

Maybe last year was Rantanen’s career year. But it could’ve been Marner’s too. We just don’t know yet.

Marner now gets to play with an elite left shooting center, and his progression last year was in line with a slight increase on his rookie year. Marner has a track record the other 2 don't.

I'm not saying its unreasonable to have the other higher. If I wasn't picking for the Leafs, and a team that lacked center de pth, I'd take Barzal. Considering we now have 2 elite centers and a solid 1b/2a 30 goal center who can play defensive minutes, our other big need isn't answered by anyone in this draft (an elite RHD). Marner's style and playmaking compliments goal-scoring left shot centers (why he and Dvorak were one of the deadliest combos the OHL has seen in recent years). For whatever reasons, he never got time with Kadri or Matthews until the back half of the season, where he put up truly elite numbers.

 

[tucker3434]

Marner now gets to play with an elite left shooting center, and his progression last year was in line with a slight increase on his rookie year. Marner has a track record the other 2 don't.

I'm not saying its unreasonable to have the other higher. If I wasn't picking for the Leafs, and a team that lacked center de pth, I'd take Barzal. Considering we now have 2 elite centers and a solid 1b/2a 30 goal center who can play defensive minutes, our other big need isn't answered by anyone in this draft (an elite RHD). Marner's style and playmaking compliments goal-scoring left shot centers (why he and Dvorak were one of the deadliest combos the OHL has seen in recent years). For whatever reasons, he never got time with Kadri or Matthews until the back half of the season, where he put up truly elite numbers.

Im not entirely sure what you mean by track record, but I think you’re implying that their development didn’t follow a linear and predictable path. I don’t think that means very much at all. Players develop differently. All that matters in the end is the outcome. Doesn’t much matter how they got there.

 

[FlyTimmo]

Im able to do a basic search on google, like most, obviously I know what he did this year.

Just a year ago Werenski put up 17 more points than Provorov.

These guys arent even 22 yet, what if I told you they still have a lot of room to grow?

I'm curious why you don't think Provorov has the same offensive potential as Hanifin, if not more? Provorov is an excellent skater, has a solid shot and thinks the game at a very high level, both offensively and defensively. Hanifin is a good player, and is fairly underrated around here, but I don't really see a strong argument for Hanifin having more offensive upside than Provorov.

 

[93LEAFS]

Im not entirely sure what you mean by track record, but I think you’re implying that their development didn’t follow a linear and predictable path. I don’t think that means very much at all. Players develop differently. All that matters in the end is the outcome. Doesn’t much matter how they got there.

Track record has to do with sustainability and likelihood of repeatability. That plays into predicting future outcomes and the likelihood of it.