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Prospect Info: 2015-2016 Rangers Prospects Thread *Part I* (Player Stats in Post #1; Updated 11/22)

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Amazing Kreiderman said:
I was at the Thunderbirds game tonight and Gropp was amazing. He was the best player on the ice. Had a breakaway and deked to score the 1st goal. Added 2 assists later on and it was a lot of fun to watch him in action. He is a lot quicker than I thought.
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Saw the game too but Volcan was out. Well most of it. That top line is a nightmare to slow down. Could of had a few more assists. Five goals and 8 points in his last 6 games.

He seems far less engaged physically, which may be from the injury. But if he's scoring I guess it doesn't matter.
 
Jussi said:
Saarela has scored today as well, game still underway.
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And just scored his 4th goal in the last three games with a nice wrist shot (9mins left in the third period).

Nice to see him get some confidence.
 
Saarela has been good lately. He has been using his shot and he gets more confident. Maybe I was too harsh to him.
 
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Just view Saarela within the context of the last year.

The only reason why he slipped were the concussions. Then he gets promoted to the Liiga and Assat is one of the worst offensive teams in the circuit.

He centered the top line at the U18's, and played on Finland's top line at the recent U20 4 nations (albeit on Aho's wing).

He and Laine have ridiculous chemistry.

It's not an exageration that he's viewed as one of Finland's best young stars, and that says a lot when you consider how talented the 1997's and 1998's are.
 
The Rangers did another awesome job drafting in the 3rd round this year. Although Kovacs and Saarela aren't exactly lighting the world on fire like Duclair was in his post draft year, I think a lot of people are sleeping on these two guys.

I see Kovacs as Brad Marchand lite. Said it to a buddy the day we drafted him. I don't quite have a bead on Saarela and current comparisons, but I do know that both of these guys definitely have top 6 potential. Gropp too, for that matter, but I think he's the safest bet of the three to make the NHL.

The only thing that will stop Saarela may be injuries. Minus the injury history, he's a late 1st rounder/early 2nd rounder. He fell because of those concerns. The Rangers have gambled on guys that fell due to attitude/injury/Russian factors, and it has paid dividends so far.
 
I Eat Crow said:
The only thing that will stop Saarela may be injuries. Minus the injury history, he's a late 1st rounder/early 2nd rounder.
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A late first, early second rounder has a less than 50-50 chance to make the NHL. Not every late first round pick turns into Kreider and Skjei. There are plenty of guys like Sanguinetti, Falardeau, Copley, Jeff Brown, Christian Dube, Sorochan, Peter Ferraro, Darcy Werenka, etc drafted in the 20-40 range.
 
I Eat Crow said:
The Rangers did another awesome job drafting in the 3rd round this year. Although Kovacs and Saarela aren't exactly lighting the world on fire like Duclair was in his post draft year, I think a lot of people are sleeping on these two guys.

I see Kovacs as Brad Marchand lite. Said it to a buddy the day we drafted him. I don't quite have a bead on Saarela and current comparisons, but I do know that both of these guys definitely have top 6 potential. Gropp too, for that matter, but I think he's the safest bet of the three to make the NHL.

The only thing that will stop Saarela may be injuries. Minus the injury history, he's a late 1st rounder/early 2nd rounder. He fell because of those concerns. The Rangers have gambled on guys that fell due to attitude/injury/Russian factors, and it has paid dividends so far.
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It's hard to gauge both Kovacs and Saarela in league play because one isn't in the top league (Kovacs) and the other is in a tough, veteran-heavy elite league (Saarela).

If it's worth anything, I think every draft pick from 2015 is developing nicely. 2014 looks to be the worse class, which is most of us predicted.

The 2016 draft is alllllll about power forwards and defensive defensemen, but really goodn ones with NHL upside.
 
DM23BK30 said:
It's hard to gauge both Kovacs and Saarela in league play because one isn't in the top league (Kovacs) and the other is in a tough, veteran-heavy elite league (Saarela).

If it's worth anything, I think every draft pick from 2015 is developing nicely. 2014 looks to be the worse class, which is most of us predicted.

The 2016 draft is alllllll about power forwards and defensive defensemen, but really goodn ones with NHL upside.
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Kovacs just got called up to the SHL though, didn't he?
 
I took a stab at it before, let's do it again to rank leagues, maybe not a perfect comparison, but by groupings. See if you agree. This is for leagues below the NHL. They are listed alphabetically within the group.

I'm basing it on 1) average league salary; 2) how many NHLers came out of the league; 3) how many former NHLers went there; 4) points 2 and 3 for National Team players and how good the NT is.


TOP TIER

AHL
KHL
SHL


SECOND TIER

Czech Extraliga
Finland SM-liiga
Switzerland National League A


TWO-AND-A-HALF TIER

Allsvenskan (Sweden-2)
Austria Hockey League
ECHL
German Hockey League
Slovak Extraliga
Switzerland National League B
VHL (Russia-2)


THIRD TIER

France Ligue Magnus
Czech 1.liga (Czech-2)
Denmark Metal Ligaen
Italy Serie-A
Mestis (Finland-2)
Norway GET-ligaen
UK Elite Ice Hockey League


LOW LEVEL

Asia League Ice Hockey
Belarus
Belgium
Hockeyettan (Sweden-3)
Poland
Russian Hockey League (Russia-3)
 
How far back did you go, Beacon? The Czech league's position seems pretty inflated compared to the Finnish and Swiss leagues, at least in terms of the quality of players. Back in the days when the Czechs were producing Jagrs and Nedveds I could see them there, but not today...
 
they refer to AHL/ECHL as analogous to AAA/AA

so is single'A' a league like SPHL?
on par with 'third tier'?
 
Beacon said:
I took a stab at it before, let's do it again to rank leagues, maybe not a perfect comparison, but by groupings. See if you agree. This is for leagues below the NHL. They are listed alphabetically within the group.

I'm basing it on 1) average league salary; 2) how many NHLers came out of the league; 3) how many former NHLers went there; 4) points 2 and 3 for National Team players and how good the NT is.


TOP TIER

AHL
KHL
SHL


SECOND TIER

Czech Extraliga
Finland SM-liiga
Switzerland National League A


TWO-AND-A-HALF TIER

Allsvenskan (Sweden-2)
German Hockey League
VHL (Russia-2)

THIRD TIER

Slovak Extraliga
ECHL
Austria Hockey League

FOURTH TIER

Switzerland National League B
France Ligue Magnus
Czech 1.liga (Czech-2)
Denmark Metal Ligaen
Italy Serie-A
Mestis (Finland-2)
Norway GET-ligaen
UK Elite Ice Hockey League


LOW LEVEL

Asia League Ice Hockey
Belarus
Belgium
Hockeyettan (Sweden-3)
Poland
Russian Hockey League (Russia-3)
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Without having great insight to these leagues, I would make the above changes. And there are big changes within those groups too.

EDIT: Sorry guys had to run and cut this post short.

On the Slovak league, 2-3 teams that are low level second tier teams, maybe very low level, and the rest is awful. Sweden-3. I've played with several players going from Slovakia to Sweden-3 and they were not good at all, especially in terms of being in shape etc.

Sweden-2, Allsvenskan, have 4-6 teams that more or less holds SHL quality. Then you have a steep falling scale. Hence I would say that Allsvenskan should be above the ECHL. The ECHL is just a bit more over the place, lower-level kids and a few vets making a living. Wouldn't underrated the ECHL, but teams in Allsvenskan just have completely different conditions.

I can't really rank the VHL. Think its solid without being able to really attract players, but don't really know.
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
This just made it painfully clear I shouldn't even bother paying to see games in the Netherlands :(
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I know nothing about your league, and while there Dutch-Americans/Canadians (Staal, I believe), were there any Dutch-raised guys in the NHL? KHL? SHL? AHL? What are the salaries like in the Dutch league?
 
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Beacon said:
I know nothing about your league, and while there Dutch-Americans/Canadians (Staal, I believe), we're there any Dutch-raised guys in the NHL? KHL? SHL? AHL? What are the salaries like in the Dutch league?
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Well, a lot of players with NHL experience have Dutch roots (Nieuwendyk, Verbeek, Staal, van Riemsdyk) and we've only had 3 Dutch-born players in the NHL. Kea, Beers and now Daniel Sprong.

The average salary a few years ago was 550 euros a week. I make more than the average hockey player in our Eredivisie (top league) which is a shame. It is a good indication how bad our hockey infrastructure is. A lot of people have asked me why we don't have more Dutch people playing hockey since we are so great at speed skating. But that's so different. That's basically saying Usain Bolt would be a great wide receiver in football.
 
cwede said:
they refer to AHL/ECHL as analogous to AAA/AA

so is single'A' a league like SPHL?
on par with 'third tier'?
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SPHL and FHL are glorified beer leagues. I have no doubt if I tried to make them (or similar prior leagues like the West Coast Hockey League) when I was younger, I would've. I still might.

In the 90s, when all Eastern Europeans flooded North America, even the minor leagues, a true single-A level (Central league, Colonial league) was possible. But since even lower end European leagues pay more than the ECHL, and even more than the AHL in many cases, no Euro wants to play in the minors here. The rise of high-paying Russian and Swiss hockey made North American minors particularly unattractive because you can be a multi-millionaire in the KHL if you are good and a regular millionaire in Switzerland if you are only ok by AHL standards.

With all the Euros leaving (sometimes even the NHL), and even many Americans/Canadians playing in Europe, there isn't enough people for a single-A level. The ECHL is already a semi-amateur operation where players play for so little money, they qualify for food stamps, and teams often play without all 4 lines filled.
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
Well, a lot of players with NHL experience have Dutch roots (Nieuwendyk, Verbeek, Staal, van Riemsdyk) and we've only had 3 Dutch-born players in the NHL. Kea, Beers and now Daniel Sprong.

The average salary a few years ago was 550 euros a week. I make more than the average hockey player in our Eredivisie (top league) which is a shame. It is a good indication how bad our hockey infrastructure is. A lot of people have asked me why we don't have more Dutch people playing hockey since we are so great at speed skating. But that's so different. That's basically saying Usain Bolt would be a great wide receiver in football.
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This is roughly on par with the ECHL, but the ECHL (and AHL) salaries are suppressed due to the huge number of North American players and so few spots for them.

US and Canada have close to 300,000 registered adult hockey players. Netherlands has under 1,500. All of Europe and former Soviet Union has under 190,000. Meanwhile, North America has 3 leagues (NHL, AHL, ECHL) that pay anything above pocket change for coffee, while Europe has leagues in many countries, often 2-3 levels in each country.

Thus, if you accept 550 euros a week in Netherlands, I suspect you are not as good as an American getting $550 in the ECHL.
 
Beacon said:
This is roughly on par with the ECHL, but the ECHL (and AHL) salaries are suppressed due to the huge number of North American players and so few spots for them.

US and Canada have close to 300,000 registered adult hockey players. Netherlands has under 1,500. All of Europe and former Soviet Union has under 190,000. Meanwhile, North America has 3 leagues (NHL, AHL, ECHL) that pay anything above pocket change for coffee, while Europe has leagues in many countries, often 2-3 levels in each country.

Thus, if you accept 550 euros a week in Netherlands, I suspect you are not as good as an American getting $550 in the ECHL.
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Add to that, that the Dutch players don't get any fees for travelling etc. That 550 euro includes all expenses. It's only semi-professional. They have to pay for everything else. Jerseys, sticks, travelling, hotel for overnight trips.
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
Add to that, that the Dutch players don't get any fees for travelling etc. That 550 euro includes all expenses. It's only semi-professional. They have to pay for everything else. Jerseys, sticks, travelling, hotel for overnight trips.
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That does sound very semi-professional. At least in the ECHL, you get all that stuff for free, plus free housing, so you can live on $550 a week for half a year and work in the off-season. If you only make €550 a week, but have to pay for travel, hotel, equipment, and obviously your own housing, you really cannot survive without money coming in from another source, like a second job or your parents. Your hockey-related expenses (hotel, travel) is probably close to what they are paying you with little to nothing left for your lifestyle. Playing in the Dutch league can't be anything that a person does for more than just love, certainly not as a career.
 
You listed the Belgium league but you should know that the Dutch and Belgian leagues have now been merged into one, while the biggest Dutch club Tilburg joined the German 3rd tier

To add to the list I would put the DEL 2 in the same tier as French and British league, and create another tier for the Kazakhstan league and move the Asia League up into that.
 
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