Speculation: 2015 - 2016 New York Rangers Roster Building Thread Part XX

[NYRKING30]

And just our luck we played a team that matched us and was physical. Talk about unlucky.

Yep, was praying for the Hawks. Matchup much better with them.

 

[we want cup]

Just trade Girardi that's all we need to do. If McD has a good season ala 13-14 then move him to the right and put Yandle on the top pairing with him

Yandle-McD
Staal-Skjei
Mcl-Klein

When will graves be ready? Hearing really good things about him.
This is for next season by the way.

So we'll have someone playing the wrong side on every pair? Yeah, AV would love that.

 

[Mikos87]

For those interested, advanced stats have been in hockey for more than 20 years, its just that they've been recently available publicly for the last 4-5 years, which is why you see so many posters, especially those that joined during that time harp about it.

On these boards you never would have heard these terms prior to 2010, and really the vociferous ones didn't come out until 2012 and 2013.

People used to only associate Detroit as that puck possession team until they say the LA and CHI numbers.

Detroit and OTT were two of the pioneers of these stats and some that aren't available publicly.

Quick news flash, DET had monster possession numbers when some guy name Lidstrom was playing half the game for them. Not the same anymore. CHI and LA have similar numbers thanks to Doughty and Keith, who ironically were a pair in two gold medal runs where they dominated.

Teams these days use a combination of video and advanced stats to break down plays, and AV is big on them. He just doesn't use those stats in a vacuum, but rather backs it up with video.

OTT back in the day never had the money to retain talent, but they would make roster moves based on advanced stats, and that helped them contend from 98-07.

As an aside, its not like baseball where sabremetrics matter to a greater degree. In that sport, there is a break and reset between every pitch, since there isn't a flow to the game, the game is significantly more measureable.

I have inside connections to a baseball team that is doing very well this year, and at the end of season last year their manager, who is one of the founding fathers of sabremetrics gave an end of year recap as to what the team needs. His words were, we have every thing we need except a sabremetric friendly 3 and 4 hitter.... the two most expensive hitters in the line up.... the team couldn't afford them... but made trades at this deadline to get them.... and they're in first place thanks to that plan. I don't care for baseball, but fans of that team, you have a very smart manager who knows how to tilt the odds in his favor through stats.

It's not the end all be all imo especially since teams have some of their very own. Even John Tortorella has his own variation.

 

[silverfish]

For those interested, advanced stats have been in hockey for more than 20 years, its just that they've been recently available publicly for the last 4-5 years, which is why you see so many posters, especially those that joined during that time harp about it.

On these boards you never would have heard these terms prior to 2010, and really the vociferous ones didn't come out until 2012 and 2013.

People used to only associate Detroit as that puck possession team until they say the LA and CHI numbers.

Detroit and OTT were two of the pioneers of these stats and some that aren't available publicly.

Quick news flash, DET had monster possession numbers when some guy name Lidstrom was playing half the game for them. Not the same anymore. CHI and LA have similar numbers thanks to Doughty and Keith, who ironically were a pair in two gold medal runs where they dominated.

Teams these days use a combination of video and advanced stats to break down plays, and AV is big on them. He just doesn't use those stats in a vacuum, but rather backs it up with video.

OTT back in the day never had the money to retain talent, but they would make roster moves based on advanced stats, and that helped them contend from 98-07.

As an aside, its not like baseball where sabremetrics matter to a greater degree. In that sport, there is a break and reset between every pitch, since there isn't a flow to the game, the game is significantly more measureable.

I have inside connections to a baseball team that is doing very well this year, and at the end of season last year their manager, who is one of the founding fathers of sabremetrics gave an end of year recap as to what the team needs. His words were, we have every thing we need except a sabremetric friendly 3 and 4 hitter.... the two most expensive hitters in the line up.... the team couldn't afford them... but made trades at this deadline to get them.... and they're in first place thanks to that plan. I don't care for baseball, but fans of that team, you have a very smart manager who knows how to tilt the odds in his favor through stats.

It's not the end all be all imo especially since teams have some of their very own. Even John Tortorella has his own variation.

You know Billy Beane?

 

[NYR]

Scouting is a huge part of any organization and front office.

A scouts job is to physically go and scout or WATCH a player, evaluate and report back with their findings. Whether it's for drafting or trading purposes, that's how teams decide if they're interested in a players/future players.

I highly doubt that scouts bring their accountants along with their little geek charts to gauge a players worth..

Do you really think AS play a big role over the eye test? I don't..

 

[Mac n Gs]

Scouting is a huge part of any organization and front office.

A scouts job is to physically go and scout or WATCH a player, evaluate and report back with their findings. Whether it's for drafting or trading purposes, that's how teams decide if they're interested in a players/future players.

I highly doubt that scouts bring their accountants along with their little geek charts to gauge a players worth..

Do you really think AS play a big role over the eye test? I don't..

Neither does anyone else, which is why we use them together...kinda like what everyone does.

 

[SA16]

They are obviously both valuable but the stats should be weighted heavier. Scouts can have unknown/known biases or predispositions to something. Numbers can't. The better the advance stats are (as in better predictive stats - not as in good quality or bad quality player) the more the stats should be weighted.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

They are obviously both valuable but the stats should be weighted heavier. Scouts can have unknown/known biases or predispositions to something. Numbers can't. The better the advance stats are (as in better predictive stats - not as in good quality or bad quality player) the more the stats should be weighted.

Numbers certainly can. Inflation/deflation of certain statistics happens all the time. Could be a variety of factors. For example, home runs allowed in Coors field. Does a pitcher in Colorado who is more prone to getting shelled have his image ruined cause of the ruined stats?

What about parity between stay evaluators. People value different stats and can make some stats more significant than others, even though they may be incorrect.

 

[NYR]

AS can never/will never be used as a scouting tool.

Their use in hockey is absolutely irrelevant or teams would be saving millions of dollars that go into scouting.

Scouts get paid big bucks too WATCH and evaluate. They watch kids grow into men for a living!

Simply put..AS are a floored system and leave a lot of room for guess work. There's nothing concrete and not worth the time and effort.

 

[SA16]

Numbers certainly can. Inflation/deflation of certain statistics happens all the time. Could be a variety of factors. For example, home runs allowed in Coors field. Does a pitcher in Colorado who is more prone to getting shelled have his image ruined cause of the ruined stats?

What about parity between stay evaluators. People value different stats and can make some stats more significant than others, even though they may be incorrect.

That's using the statistics incorrectly or using the wrong stats. Using your example if you look at a pitchers ERA and don't take into account the park factor and such you're using the wrong number. Instead of ERA you should be using something like ERA-. Instead of wOBA for a hitter you should be using wRC+. I will say if you use a stat wrong it is much much worse than not having it all. But additionally who ever said 1 stat on it's own tells the whole story? You need to look at a variety of things as a whole.

 

[DanielBrassard]

That's using the statistics incorrectly or using the wrong stats. Using your example if you look at a pitchers ERA and don't take into account the park factor and such you're using the wrong number. Instead of ERA you should be using something like ERA-. Instead of wOBA for a hitter you should be using wRC+. I will say if you use a stat wrong it is much much worse than not having it all.

This is exactly right.

 

[Mikos87]

You know Billy Beane?

I know the corporate heads where one of his compadres currently works.

 

[aufheben]

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