2015-16 Champions Hockey League
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Jussi
Registered User
For him poor CHL attendance is positive, hence a good attendance figure is negative for him = my work is done.
HAHAHA I love this kid. "Sold Out" inherently cannot be a bad report, Urbanskog's point is that it is not as positive as you are making it out to be, and my point is that it is positive because it shows strong proof of concept(big economics concept middle schoolers don't need to worry about so ignore that). You should check out soon, it's getting near your bedtime.For him poor CHL attendance is positive, hence a good attendance figure is negative for him = my work is done.
hansomreiste
Registered User
I love how vorky never gets involved in arguments but posts facts generally supported with at least one source and well-structured opinions. Good and calm guy vorky strikes back!
This may be a relatively long post, mainly consisting of ideas for Euroleague but I would like to write it anyways since I believe, as you said, it's similar to KHL vs CHL.
The current Euroleague model is horrible and I hate it even when my team competes. Just a bunch of rich European teams competing for the cup after playing around 20 almost totally unnecessary matches. Since the Italians are gone mostly for economical reasons, Euroleague offers no surprise until last stages of top 16: CSKA, Real, Barcelona, Maccabi, Olympiakos and one or two random teams sprinkled in in the form of Panathinaikos, Fenerbahce etc. Splash money and win. No other team to surprise. No growth in European basketball in general.
For example, in this year's edition, Darussafaka Dogus is included. In fact, their original name is only Darussafaka but they are purchased by Dogus Holding which owns Garanti Bank and NTV in Turkey, now also a partner of Euroleague. Solely for this purpose, Darussafaka competed in group stages, even though they were eliminated in quarterfinals in Turkish basketball league in previous season. My questions,
1) Excluding Galatasaray which was ineligible to compete in Euroleague, why was not Banvit (eliminated in same stage as Dacka) or Trabzon (eliminated in semifinals, best Turkish team after the ones who already qualified for Euroleague via championship and A-license)?
2) If Trabzon and Banvit are not options for Euroleague, why was Darussafaka have to be chosen? I mean, you can give this wildcard to a German, Italian or French team. Why Turkey, when we already have three teams? Easy: Because bosses of Darussafaka are who pumps the money for Euroleague.
For this reason, I strongly oppose any kind of closed international tournament. Nationally, it may be viable but internationally, no. International tournaments are supposed to determine "the best" so every team should have their chances to prove themselves, in my opinion. So I totally support the idea of FIBA creating another league of theirs. Look at Eurochallenge. Few years ago, no one even knew that Danish could play basketball. Now, you can see Bakken Bears making it to second round, or some team from Estonia or Hungary put a good fight against relatively stronger ones.
The same should go for hockey. The countries and teams should be allowed to enter the international organizations as long as they deserve their place on ice. When you "close" the league and make only 10 or 12 elite European teams compete, it may generate profit for some time but in the end, it will turn into an event nobody cares except the fans of teams playing in edition, while providing absolutely nothing for European hockey in general.
As I previously stated in various posts, I really have no idea how such a UEFA-style, coefficient-based, open for all competition can be formed but I believe this should be the way to go for European hockey, if long-term prosperity is what's wanted.
I simply want to see Europe in general getting better at hockey, like Adler playing toe to toe against a top KHL team, or a team from Poland making history. Well, this is unlikely to happen. But if you make an international, closed league only for the so-called "elite", it will be totally impossible.
This may be a relatively long post, mainly consisting of ideas for Euroleague but I would like to write it anyways since I believe, as you said, it's similar to KHL vs CHL.
The current Euroleague model is horrible and I hate it even when my team competes. Just a bunch of rich European teams competing for the cup after playing around 20 almost totally unnecessary matches. Since the Italians are gone mostly for economical reasons, Euroleague offers no surprise until last stages of top 16: CSKA, Real, Barcelona, Maccabi, Olympiakos and one or two random teams sprinkled in in the form of Panathinaikos, Fenerbahce etc. Splash money and win. No other team to surprise. No growth in European basketball in general.
For example, in this year's edition, Darussafaka Dogus is included. In fact, their original name is only Darussafaka but they are purchased by Dogus Holding which owns Garanti Bank and NTV in Turkey, now also a partner of Euroleague. Solely for this purpose, Darussafaka competed in group stages, even though they were eliminated in quarterfinals in Turkish basketball league in previous season. My questions,
1) Excluding Galatasaray which was ineligible to compete in Euroleague, why was not Banvit (eliminated in same stage as Dacka) or Trabzon (eliminated in semifinals, best Turkish team after the ones who already qualified for Euroleague via championship and A-license)?
2) If Trabzon and Banvit are not options for Euroleague, why was Darussafaka have to be chosen? I mean, you can give this wildcard to a German, Italian or French team. Why Turkey, when we already have three teams? Easy: Because bosses of Darussafaka are who pumps the money for Euroleague.
For this reason, I strongly oppose any kind of closed international tournament. Nationally, it may be viable but internationally, no. International tournaments are supposed to determine "the best" so every team should have their chances to prove themselves, in my opinion. So I totally support the idea of FIBA creating another league of theirs. Look at Eurochallenge. Few years ago, no one even knew that Danish could play basketball. Now, you can see Bakken Bears making it to second round, or some team from Estonia or Hungary put a good fight against relatively stronger ones.
The same should go for hockey. The countries and teams should be allowed to enter the international organizations as long as they deserve their place on ice. When you "close" the league and make only 10 or 12 elite European teams compete, it may generate profit for some time but in the end, it will turn into an event nobody cares except the fans of teams playing in edition, while providing absolutely nothing for European hockey in general.
As I previously stated in various posts, I really have no idea how such a UEFA-style, coefficient-based, open for all competition can be formed but I believe this should be the way to go for European hockey, if long-term prosperity is what's wanted.
I simply want to see Europe in general getting better at hockey, like Adler playing toe to toe against a top KHL team, or a team from Poland making history. Well, this is unlikely to happen. But if you make an international, closed league only for the so-called "elite", it will be totally impossible.
About the Final...
Kärpät best offensive defenseman Markus Nutivaara, 21, is out but there's a chance that Joni Pitkänen might play. He's registered for the tournament but he hasn't played a competetive game in like 3 years or something so it's a long shot.
I've heard that Frölunda has injury worries with their defenders also?
Kärpät best offensive defenseman Markus Nutivaara, 21, is out but there's a chance that Joni Pitkänen might play. He's registered for the tournament but he hasn't played a competetive game in like 3 years or something so it's a long shot.
I've heard that Frölunda has injury worries with their defenders also?
Jussi
Registered User
People in Finland don't exactly go to Uuusi Suomi for sports news and that article is a prime example of why.
Click bait title - check. Crappy comparison - check. Failure to understand the glut of games Kärpät and many other teams have right now = fans automatically pick more carefully which games they'll go to.Lol, have to agree with Jussi on this but I'm not going to have vorky for lunch just because Hansom gives him unwanted advertising.
If you haven't noticed the point of a forum is to post opinions, not facts. A sold out crowd of 6700(the original STAT being debated), as well as being in the second year and having tv deals and media coverage in austria in my mind is strong proof of concept but I may be wrong, it could fail. That's the point of a forum, discussing opinions. If you don't prefer comparing opinions then write a blog. I won't read.
hansomreiste
Registered User
I didn't say the otherwise or mean to offend either you or Jussi. In fact, I agree with you on that and I am quite OK to see people have arguments or discussions on this forum. I just wanted to point that I love vorky's pretty much unique style of "I don't care what's going on here, I will just post my stuff and go; you can strangle each other to death, I just don't care" thing.
To some distinct you can see same aspects in CHL. Its not closed league but some teams have locked spots. And it already showed that its not ideal for int. competition. Especially in hockey and particularly in some euro hockey leagues quality of team can change significantly in lets say two years period. Having closed national league/KHL or having closed int. league are completely different things IMO. In league concept you can be always last as people see other teams on top playing high quality hockey. But speaking about int. League which is named as Champions league, people will consider it as an elite, exclusive league. Then they will always ask soon or later "hey they suck in their league, why we have to watch them in CHL when there are 6 better ones which should be there. Its like having Maple leafs there despite they suck 15 years. I have the same opinion in soccer. How pathetic is the idea of closed elite league which is now promoted again by some teams?MAN U comes to my mind first. They openly admit that they are not good enough to qualify to playoff this year and they want closed league now? Same with AC Milan. Sure good to see big club names, but when you dont have quality, you shouldn't be there imo.
vorky
@vorkywh24
- Jan 23, 2010
- 11,607
- 1,374
I would have nothing against CHL is they presented itself as secondary competition (like Eurocup in basket or Europa League in soccer). I agree that european hockey competition for weaker leagues is needed in euro hockey, but it is not approriate to have lets say polish league club in the same competition as swedish or finnish league club. It is simple, hockey is not as developed in Europe as soccer or basketball which have more national leagues on the similar/same level.
We have to ask why Euroleague wants to be "almost" closed league. There are seasons for it. One of them is economical reasons. If they want to generate more money, they need to invest at first (to develop all off ice product, using hockey as example). And you can not ask poor clubs to do that, because they dont have enough money. The same in hockey and CHL.
We have to ask why Euroleague wants to be "almost" closed league. There are seasons for it. One of them is economical reasons. If they want to generate more money, they need to invest at first (to develop all off ice product, using hockey as example). And you can not ask poor clubs to do that, because they dont have enough money. The same in hockey and CHL.
Jussi
Registered User
We've already been through this. It's not ideal but necessary to set up the foundation. There'se only one more season with founding memebers, after that they'll cut the number of teams to 32.
¨
I mentioned it as a negative aspect to quality. Still I agree it is a necessity for the CHL existence....
Can't find anything online - when do we find out which spots go where for next year?
Mostly looking to find out how many spots go to the UK Elite League.
Mostly looking to find out how many spots go to the UK Elite League.
Jussi
Registered User
Done a bit of searching, and we found out the UK Elite League had two spots mid-February last year. So may be some sort of release after the final.
I know next season the CHL will have 48 teams. However, I wondering is there any word on how many teams for the season after that.
Also are they going to remove the aggregate system for the playoffs?
Also are they going to remove the aggregate system for the playoffs?
Jussi
Registered User
Jussi
Registered User
Jussi
Registered User
Choking? Think Frölunda has been better but Kärpät haven't been bad at all. Frölunda should be considered favourites although playing against Kärpät in Uleåborg isn't an easy task.
If anything, Frölunda choked last year against Luleå after completely dominating the first two periods.
Kärpät fails to apply pressure. Frölunda controls this game so far. In the third Kärpät must come with more speed and take some more chances otherwise they will loose.
Im not so surprised. Frölunda has been completely crushing the other teams this year in the SHL. With all the games they have lost recently they know they have to bounce back, which is what the are doing right now.
Im not so surprised. Frölunda has been completely crushing the other teams this year in the SHL. With all the games they have lost recently they know they have to bounce back, which is what the are doing right now.
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Hockeyfrilla
Swe prospect fanatic
Jussi
Registered User
Kärpät hit a slump at the worst possible time. They've looked very inconsistent during several sretches of the season so in a way this isn't a surprise. I'd even go as far as say that even if Pitkänen hadn't been troubled by groin pains, they still would have lost.
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