Stastny was a 2nd round pick IIRC. Unless you're talking one of the old-school Stastnys.
You've listed about 15 players out of how many thousands? Sure it happens, but it hardly happens as often as you may hope.
Mangiapane (who I don't think 100TG hates per se) is still a project and still a while away from being considered a blue chip, can't miss prospect. For me, all it tells me is that it wasn't a wasted pick and there is potential there, but he's still a long way from being an NHL player.
I always thought it should die at 20.
@ Johnny13 - I interpreted as "missing guys before" and your list of "never drafted players" as an argument that Mangiapane will be an NHL player. If that's not the case, then it is on you to articulate your position better.
Treliving even said though that you have to be careful with getting to high or to low with guys after this tourney.
I don't dislike Mangiapane at all, just hate the faux hype he's getting when 3 months ago no one even knew who he was, but now that they see some point totals they'll put him ahead of someone like Kulak has a better chance of being a regular NHLer and improved significantly through the season (and as you know I am not extremely high on Kulak either) but it makes no sense for a recent 5th round pick (who was in his 2nd draft) to suddenly jump up the rankings less than 90 days after being drafted. It reminds me of the hype Tim Harrison was getting after his first prospect camp.Stastny was a 2nd round pick IIRC. Unless you're talking one of the old-school Stastnys.
You've listed about 15 players out of how many thousands? Sure it happens, but it hardly happens as often as you may hope.
Mangiapane (who I don't think 100TG hates per se) is still a project and still a while away from being considered a blue chip, can't miss prospect. For me, all it tells me is that it wasn't a wasted pick and there is potential there, but he's still a long way from being an NHL player.
I don't dislike Mangiapane at all, just hate the faux hype he's getting when 3 months ago no one even knew who he was, but now that they see some point totals they'll put him ahead of someone like Kulak has a better chance of being a regular NHLer and improved significantly through the season (and as you know I am not extremely high on Kulak either) but it makes no sense for a recent 5th round pick (who was in his 2nd draft) to suddenly jump up the rankings less than 90 days after being drafted. It reminds me of the hype Tim Harrison was getting after his first prospect camp.
Kanzig being a bad skater has to be the most overblown fallacy among Flames fans. Does he need to improve? yeah, of course but it's not anywhere near as bad as it's made out to be.
Tim Harrison is a great example to bring up. Had that awesome dev. camp his first year, and realistically has fallen completely off the map ever since.
Yet from what I have seen, what people within the organization, former coaches and people watching the most recent development camp say the opposite. Often bigger guys look slower than they are due to the length of their stride and because it is often awkward.Said the same thing last summer about Hanowski, and probably got a similar response.
I've watch Kanzig play about 40 games, so its not like I'm just pulling it out of thin air, its what I've seen.
I think Rafikov is another example, look at the hype last year compared to now too. He had a good series of games that people saw and suddenly he had top 4 potential, now he is in the KHL and been a healthy scratch in 6 of 10 games.Tim Harrison is a great example to bring up. Had that awesome dev. camp his first year, and realistically has fallen completely off the map ever since.
I think Rafikov is another example, look at the hype last year compared to now too. He had a good series of games that people saw and suddenly he had top 4 potential, now he is in the KHL and been a healthy scratch in 6 of 10 games.
Well all I know is they seem to dress 8 defensemen regularly and he has trouble cracking the lineup. I'm not sure if he would be in the AHL or ECHL here to be honest.Eh, it's harder to get a read on Rafikov, because I'm not as familiar with the Russian system as I am with the NA systems. I don't know how to interpret playing time and scratches and such in the KHL. I mean, if he was in NA, he wouldn't be playing in the top league at all.
Tim Harrison is a great example to bring up. Had that awesome dev. camp his first year, and realistically has fallen completely off the map ever since.
I think Rafikov is another example, look at the hype last year compared to now too. He had a good series of games that people saw and suddenly he had top 4 potential, now he is in the KHL and been a healthy scratch in 6 of 10 games.
[mod] I can't tell if you're trolling or not anymore. Kanzig had to have been the worst defenseman at the Penticton tournament this weekend and that's saying something with all the ATO guys. Also, Mangiapane can clearly score and isn't totally dependent on his line-mates.Kanzig being a bad skater has to be the most overblown fallacy among Flames fans. Does he need to improve? yeah, of course but it's not anywhere near as bad as it's made out to be.
I am serious in my assessment on Kanzig. He was far from the worst defenseman at the tournament, the fact you are suggesting he was is simply laughable. He doesn't play a flashy game so people don't notice him most of the time, but they pick up on mistakes he makes. It's what happens with many stay at home type defensemen. But pardon me for developing my own opinions rather than falling into the group think that is present with many prospects.[mod] I can't tell if you're trolling or not anymore. Kanzig had to have been the worst defenseman at the Penticton tournament this weekend and that's saying something with all the ATO guys. Also, Mangiapane can clearly score and isn't totally dependent on his line-mates.
Him and Eric Roy were the two most responsible for chances against our team the whole tournament. I've always been an advocate for Kanzig, but this tournament has shown me he will be an ECHL defenseman, at best. He has no decision making skills, is probably the worst skater in our organization and his defense was lacking. If you pride yourself on defence and you can't play it, then you're not going to go far.
Yet from what I have seen, what people within the organization, former coaches and people watching the most recent development camp say the opposite. Often bigger guys look slower than they are due to the length of their stride and because it is often awkward.
And I do believe Hanowski's problem wasn't as much as speed but his lack of physicality. They tried to convert him into a more physical player and while he tried he just didn't have it in him. Now for his style of game he was not fast enough, but had he been able to step up the physicality that would have become less important. Same goes for Kanzig, as a stay at home defenseman as long as he is making smart decisions as to when to go after the big hit, plays angles well and has an active stick, speed while an asset becomes much less vital.
I'm not suggesting Kanzig is fast, just saying he's not as terrible as he is made out to be. You listen to people and they make it sound like if he doesn't double his speed he has no shot. But his long stride stride allows him to close gaps while it looks like he is going slow.
Agility can be improved and his has improved and will continue to improve once working with our staff on a daily basis. And let's be honest anyone taken in the 3rd round or later is a long shotHis straight away speed is not that bad, you're right. The biggest issue is his lateral agility; he doesn't have a ton of mobility, which is likely to significantly limit his ability to defend against opposing players in the pros. He can compensate to a degree with his size/reach and positioning, but it's still a pretty substantial deficiency for a defenceman to have.
Combine that with his lacklustre puck skills, and it's pretty easy to consider him a longshot.