i don't think Tuomo and Hartikainen should be lumped together as 3-4 line grinders, Hartikainen has shown at least to me he could easily play in the top lines, he had a great season in the KHL as a legimate 1st line winger. http://www.mtv.fi/sport/mm2015/uuti...a-petri-kontiolan-kuntokayra-nousussa/4974118 Can somebody who saw those Swiss games tell me is Jalonen for real about Kontiola or is he talking out of his ass?
WC: 2015 — Team Finland
- Thread starter Artorius Horus T
- Start date
- Status
i don't think Tuomo and Hartikainen should be lumped together as 3-4 line grinders, Hartikainen has shown at least to me he could easily play in the top lines, he had a great season in the KHL as a legimate 1st line winger. http://www.mtv.fi/sport/mm2015/uuti...a-petri-kontiolan-kuntokayra-nousussa/4974118 Can somebody who saw those Swiss games tell me is Jalonen for real about Kontiola or is he talking out of his ass?
QnebO
Wheel, snipe, celly
- Feb 11, 2010
- 9,763
- 644
Despite all my attempts to be objective, I've always had a bit of a soft spot for Ruutu. He's had bad seasons before, yet been solid when's the time come to don the blue-and-white. What I've seen of him this season, I'm yet again not entirely certain if we can fault him being in the doghouse entirely on his abilities.
Therefore, I suppose I wouldn't mind if they had him, and wouldn't mind that either if KJ and co just went nuts and placed him in the top units. His history speaks for him, and I'm willing to excuse him based on that - at least until the present day turns against him. Of course, that'd suck for guys like Hartikainen and Osala who also really deserve to be in the team. They've got some fresh showings and have worked their backsides off to display them, so to have someone rob their spot based on mostly his name and old merit would be a bit harsh.
However, as it was pointed out, there might just be room for a bit more than usual grinder complement - since many of them can be used to balance out the top lines as well. At least Ruutu, Korpikoski, Komarov, Hartikainen and Osala could all be used in such a manner. It's quite easy really to fit them all in the lineup.
Ruutu - Barkov - Jokinen
Korpikoski - Kontiola - Aaltonen
Salminen - Immonen - Osala
Komarov - Wirtanen - Hartikainen
That's actually a pretty balanced squad with some finish in all of the lines despite looking a bit grind-heavy at first. The difference to last year is that most of the guys Erkka picked did NOT have the necessary offensive flair on top their usual physical abilities. Out of those, only Pakarinen was able to answer that call.
Armia was good on the first half with the Amerks, but has regressed quite a bit since his trade. Not that I'd mind if the Nose decided to take a chance with him anyway, but I can also see why he'd pass.
And we DO have quite a bit of stickhandling wingers even without Keränen, actually. Salminen, Aaltonen, Donskoi, Enlund and possibly J.Jokinen too. Even all of them won't make the cut, so adding Keränen would be a bit redundant if anything. Which, in reference to my preceding comment about the grinders, could mean that there is a fair opportunity to build the team by filling it with somewhat seasoned skill rather than muscle. Erkka obviously balked at Teräväinen and Keränen last year because he felt uncomfortable with their relative freshness (which he shouldn't have, IMO) - Jalonen can't use the same excuse because he should be far more aware what the players available to him are capable of.
Therefore, I suppose I wouldn't mind if they had him, and wouldn't mind that either if KJ and co just went nuts and placed him in the top units. His history speaks for him, and I'm willing to excuse him based on that - at least until the present day turns against him. Of course, that'd suck for guys like Hartikainen and Osala who also really deserve to be in the team. They've got some fresh showings and have worked their backsides off to display them, so to have someone rob their spot based on mostly his name and old merit would be a bit harsh.
However, as it was pointed out, there might just be room for a bit more than usual grinder complement - since many of them can be used to balance out the top lines as well. At least Ruutu, Korpikoski, Komarov, Hartikainen and Osala could all be used in such a manner. It's quite easy really to fit them all in the lineup.
Ruutu - Barkov - Jokinen
Korpikoski - Kontiola - Aaltonen
Salminen - Immonen - Osala
Komarov - Wirtanen - Hartikainen
That's actually a pretty balanced squad with some finish in all of the lines despite looking a bit grind-heavy at first. The difference to last year is that most of the guys Erkka picked did NOT have the necessary offensive flair on top their usual physical abilities. Out of those, only Pakarinen was able to answer that call.
There were some flashes I suppose, but can't say I really saw anything that would justify a slot. Maybe just enough to deserve some extra rope. In his defense though, he was playing in a line with Huhtala and Pihlström, who are not really guys who complement his playstyle. With the new additions, he should be back together with JMA and somebody else more skilled, so we should have better image in a week or two.
Both Minnesota and Winnipeg may end up in the playoffs however, so it's entirely possible said players are going to end up hanging around the big clubs as a Black Ace. And if they don't, well... that's really not an indicator they've had a good season and therefore puts a question mark on their usefulness for the NT as well. Bit of a catch-22.
Armia was good on the first half with the Amerks, but has regressed quite a bit since his trade. Not that I'd mind if the Nose decided to take a chance with him anyway, but I can also see why he'd pass.
And we DO have quite a bit of stickhandling wingers even without Keränen, actually. Salminen, Aaltonen, Donskoi, Enlund and possibly J.Jokinen too. Even all of them won't make the cut, so adding Keränen would be a bit redundant if anything. Which, in reference to my preceding comment about the grinders, could mean that there is a fair opportunity to build the team by filling it with somewhat seasoned skill rather than muscle. Erkka obviously balked at Teräväinen and Keränen last year because he felt uncomfortable with their relative freshness (which he shouldn't have, IMO) - Jalonen can't use the same excuse because he should be far more aware what the players available to him are capable of.
Last edited:
Is Joensuu available or injured? I'd take him over Osala personally. I'd pick every other player from your squad into mine except Osala and Wirtanen.
Korpikoski-Barkov-Jokinen
Komarov-Kontiola-Aaltonen
Joensuu-Koskiranta-Salminen
Ruutu-Immonen-Hartikainen
Joensuu is on the camp and battling for a spot. But have you even watched these EHT/NT games this season? Osala really deserves to be there, that shouldn't even be up to debate. Right now he's clearly the better player compared to any other euro grinder we have save for Hartikainen.
Wirtanen <-> Koskiranta is more of a cosmetic change. Either/or is okay.
Also, I don't see why you wanna split Immonen and Salminen when they've played all season together to a great effect, both in NT and Torpedo. They're practically joined at the hip at this point.
First pair: Lepistö and Hietanen. 'Nuff said.
Second pair: RR55 on the right and one of the remaining puck-movers on the left. We have Lindell, Kivistö, Salmela and Mäntylä.
Third pair: Kivistö/Salmela/Ohtamaa and Jokipakka. It's also possible Jokipakka doesn't make it - in which case this spot ought to go to Ohtamaa.
Fourth pair: Jaakola and Kukkonen I guess if he's coming. He apparently took some kind of bump in the head in his last game. If he's not up for it, some of those other names mentioned who isn't booked somewhere already. I'd say not having Kukkonen punches the tickets of both Ohtamaa and Jokipakka.
We'll of course have to see how the chips fall as the camp progresses, but right now my eight would be...
Lepistö - Hietanen
Lindell - Ristolainen
Kivistö - Jokipakka
Kukkonen - Jaakola
Last edited:
mattihp
Registered User
I really wanted to include him, but could not find a good spot. Top-4 should consist of Lepistö, Hietanen, Ristolainen and a left-hooked puckmover.
I also wanted an additional puckmover to bottom-4 in case the top pairings need a replacement, and settled on Kivistö. Jaakola is likely a lock.
If Kukkonen is a no-show, then Ohtamaa and Jokipakka ought to be natural choices. If he comes, I guess it's one or the other. Unless they decide settle for Ohtamaa as the designated replacement puckmover. It's not natural for him... but it's not like he's horribad either.
Last edited:
You may be right about keeping Salminen & Immonen together.
I've seen some of the games, but not all. I didn't pay that much attention on Osala. Actually scratch both Osala and Joensuu and put Pakarinen in there.
I guess these 5 bottom-6 wingers are up for debate for the last 3 slots:
Hartikainen
Joensuu
Osala
Pakarinen
Ruutu -I want Ruutu to play until his medal streak stops, no matter what the role is
Korpikoski-Barkov-Jokinen
Komarov-Kontiola-Aaltonen
Ruutu-Immonen-Salminen
Pakarinen-Koskiranta-Hartikainen
Sometimes I wonder how hard it is for some to check something as simple as the AHL playoffs situation (hint: the teams above the line have players likely not to feature in the Skoda Cup)... Edmonton's farm Oklahoma is playoff bound. And, oh, on top of that... he's currently injured. He's got a busted knee and his return is completely open. Wouldn't count anything on him.
If Pakarinen was available, I could see why he might take preference to some after last year. But there's a chance the Nose would still prefer Osala and/or Hartikainen over him, since they've both just been that good this year. They haven't had that many points, but have just been elite as complementary players.
I have to say, that's a solid unit even if I had Kivistö over Ohtamaa. Works just as well. Incidentally, Jokipakka can also man the blueline in a pinch.
My current projection, based on a) players who actually are available, and b) utilizing known chemistries:
Niemi
Koskinen
Saros
Lepistö - Hietanen
Lindell - Ristolainen
Ohtamaa - Jokipakka
Kukkonen - Jaakola
Ruutu - Barkov - Jokinen
Hartikainen - Kontiola - Aaltonen
Salminen - Immonen - Osala
Komarov - Koskiranta - Enlund
+Kemppainen, Donskoi
Niemi has never had a chance to play in a big role in a major NT event. He's without contract, but the lure could still be too much. Also, he seems to have fallen as backup in the Sharks behind Stalock, so he might be looking for a chance to establish himself agan. Koskinen just backstopped SKA to Gagarin Cup finals. He was like a wall in the series against CSKA. Saros third string.
Defense as stated above.
Some may think Ruutu does not deserve to be that high, but I put him there because he's familiar with Jokinen. Second line has a duo of usual suspects plus some complementing muscle with a flair of finish. That third line is actually our best line from this year's EHT events so far. A full unit in which everything clinches beautifully. Fourth line is the Sibir duo + Leonid.
The Kärppä pair are my wild cards, those two are playing just wicked hockey right now.
And oh, where's Korpikoski? I'll start fitting him in when we actually have more than guesswork. He's currently off the Yotes' lineup, took a stick to the face roughly a week back. DTD as I hear it, but it's not looking good that we've heard from every other possible player not bound for playoffs, but not from him. Of course, it could be that the press is holding back the questions to a guy who, according to reports, is currently eating with a straw.
Last edited:
Lineup vs Germany today.
35 Atte Engren
32 Juuse Saros
41 Antti Pihlström - 26 Jarkko Immonen(A) - 70 Teemu Hartikainen
18 Sami Lepistö(C) - 38 Juuso Hietanen
25 Mikko Rantanen - 27 Petri Kontiola - 50 Juhamatti Aaltonen
28 Anssi Salmela - 63 Topi Jaakola
62 Oskar Osala - 15 Juha-Pekka Hytönen(A) - 36 Ossi Louhivaara
6 Tuukka Mäntylä - 7 Esa Lindell
42 Lennart Petrell - 13 Petteri Wirtanen - 58 Harri Pesonen
55 Atte Ohtamaa - 47 Ville Lajunen
extra forward: 61 Tommi Huhtala
1 skill line and 3 lines of grinders?
35 Atte Engren
32 Juuse Saros
41 Antti Pihlström - 26 Jarkko Immonen(A) - 70 Teemu Hartikainen
18 Sami Lepistö(C) - 38 Juuso Hietanen
25 Mikko Rantanen - 27 Petri Kontiola - 50 Juhamatti Aaltonen
28 Anssi Salmela - 63 Topi Jaakola
62 Oskar Osala - 15 Juha-Pekka Hytönen(A) - 36 Ossi Louhivaara
6 Tuukka Mäntylä - 7 Esa Lindell
42 Lennart Petrell - 13 Petteri Wirtanen - 58 Harri Pesonen
55 Atte Ohtamaa - 47 Ville Lajunen
extra forward: 61 Tommi Huhtala
1 skill line and 3 lines of grinders?
Hopefully not an indicator of things to come.
Looks like they're sitting Salminen for some reason. When even one of your skill guys is out, that's what you get when you have an abundance of grinders in the squad. That's not criticism though, since it's not like they really have considerable options available. Those additional skill guys worth something, like Donskoi, Palola and (hopefully) J.Jokinen are still occupied elsewhere. Getting said gentlemen should lead to a more balanced lineup. KJ can't be as thick as Erkka... can he?
That being said, nice to see Rantanen getting a proper chance to show what's he got. One can wonder if it's simply the Nose throwing the dog a bone, but eh, nice anyway.
4-0 win over Germany. Kontiola, Hytönen, Louhivaara and Pihlström with the goals.
Germany was awful but Rantanen-Kontiola-Aaltonen line worked really well.
Lindell, Osala, Hartikainen, Louhivaara and Lajunen were good also.
I was hoping to see 4 forwards on the powerplay as Jaakola/Mäntylä really shouldn't be there. Aaltonen looked kinda lost playing on the right side instead of left point on the powerplay.
Germany was awful but Rantanen-Kontiola-Aaltonen line worked really well.
Lindell, Osala, Hartikainen, Louhivaara and Lajunen were good also.
I was hoping to see 4 forwards on the powerplay as Jaakola/Mäntylä really shouldn't be there. Aaltonen looked kinda lost playing on the right side instead of left point on the powerplay.
Last edited:
Mäntylä is fully capable of manning a blueline, but Jaakola was seriously a strange choice. I mean every other d-man in the lineup had more natural ability for it than him.
Oh well, a practice game, so... guess they can try different stuff.
Hard to imagine Philström being left out of the final lineup, but maybe we'll see it this year. I got mixed feelings about that personally. I love to see Hartikainen and Philström in those corners, in different lines though.
Most have probably noticed how KJ likes his guys from that SM-Liiga championship winning HIFK squad. So makes me wonder if we'll see Wirtanen or Petrell in the final line up for this reason. We'll see soon if KJ likes to play favorites in a tournament as big as World Championships. Potential for some huge drama that overlaps Jukka Jalonen & Jussi Jokinen and Vancouver case is there...
I also got a feeling Boston will be out of the playoffs and we'll have a chance to get Rask. Wonder if he'll say yes... If that will be the case we'd only need only 1 of Lehtonen or Niemi. I guess 3rd goalie could be Koskinen/Engren/Saros in that case, not really important.
All right. Just thought people forgot about him. Chances are slim then.
Your lines look pretty good with those chemistry points you mentioned. How would your power play lines look like or would you keep the lines the same?
Most have probably noticed how KJ likes his guys from that SM-Liiga championship winning HIFK squad. So makes me wonder if we'll see Wirtanen or Petrell in the final line up for this reason. We'll see soon if KJ likes to play favorites in a tournament as big as World Championships. Potential for some huge drama that overlaps Jukka Jalonen & Jussi Jokinen and Vancouver case is there...
I also got a feeling Boston will be out of the playoffs and we'll have a chance to get Rask. Wonder if he'll say yes... If that will be the case we'd only need only 1 of Lehtonen or Niemi. I guess 3rd goalie could be Koskinen/Engren/Saros in that case, not really important.
All right. Just thought people forgot about him. Chances are slim then.
Your lines look pretty good with those chemistry points you mentioned. How would your power play lines look like or would you keep the lines the same?
"Need?" All right, reality check.
We need exactly zero, but the chances are good we'll get one. A quick question: When have we had two NHL starters in our roster for the WHC? Answer: Never.
It's not the olympics. An NHL starter caliber goalie will only come if he's guaranteed minutes. Therefore, even if we have three available, they'll sort it out between themselves and the management, decide who goes and who are the two that stay home.
When all is said and done, we'll have: Rask/Niemi/Lehtonen as starter, Koskinen as backup, and Saros/Engren as third string. Not that I'd mind having an all-star tandem, but it'd be the first time in known history. And yet you somehow casually talk about it as if it was a requirement.
If the lineup were to be like that, I wouldn't mix the units. Rather I'd keep the Barkov's line as the primary PP unit and would rotate the Kontiola and Immonen lines as secondary, depending on which one has better moves at the moment.
No need to mix'n'match defensive pairings either. Lepistö and Hietanen man the blueline behind one unit and Lindell and Ristolainen back up the other.
Just my musings though. No idea what the Nose has got in mind, or even if the lines will be exactly those. The amount of options available for such a regular WHC spring are pretty dazzling. For once, it feels that we'll have no lackluster options, only good and even better ones. Unless the Nose goes crazy of course, and hauls a collection of Pesonens and Louhivaaras to Ostrava. Lord
us all if that happens.
Last edited:
@File
I got a feeling KJ will at least sometimes put a forward on the blueline, so 4 forwards. Probably Immonen, even though it's probably not smart when he's already centering a line.
About the goalie thing. Well 'need' was the wrong word, didn't mean that. I'm aware goalies like Niemi/Rask/Lehtonen would probably ask to have guaranteed minutes, as they are used to being the starters in their teams.
I'm thinking Niemi might be desperate enough to come anyways as a #2, because he's in a bad situation in his club. Then Rask would be promised the #1 spot, if he was to come, since it looks more than likely after tonight's results that Boston will be out. Playoff spot isn't in Boston's own hands anymore. Maybe Rask will say no though or maybe he wants to show everyone in the World Championships it was indeed his team's fault more than his about this season.
Oh yeah and let's hope Barkov will join next week's Russia games already since KJ said NHL'ers might join next week! That would be sick and would make those games much more interesting. Hopefully though he doesn't get injured again in the Russia games if that happens.
I got a feeling KJ will at least sometimes put a forward on the blueline, so 4 forwards. Probably Immonen, even though it's probably not smart when he's already centering a line.
About the goalie thing. Well 'need' was the wrong word, didn't mean that. I'm aware goalies like Niemi/Rask/Lehtonen would probably ask to have guaranteed minutes, as they are used to being the starters in their teams.
I'm thinking Niemi might be desperate enough to come anyways as a #2, because he's in a bad situation in his club. Then Rask would be promised the #1 spot, if he was to come, since it looks more than likely after tonight's results that Boston will be out. Playoff spot isn't in Boston's own hands anymore. Maybe Rask will say no though or maybe he wants to show everyone in the World Championships it was indeed his team's fault more than his about this season.
Oh yeah and let's hope Barkov will join next week's Russia games already since KJ said NHL'ers might join next week! That would be sick and would make those games much more interesting. Hopefully though he doesn't get injured again in the Russia games if that happens.
Last edited:
Good rule of thumb is that you use four forwards when you haven't got enough d-men for the job. That squad has more than enough, so going that way would be a pretty odd leap in logic.
And since we're talking about logic...
How do you figure Niemi would find bench-warming duties in the WHC beneficial towards his situation with his day job? He, if anyone, should only be interested about playing. Or do you think some NHL GM will grant him another multi-million dollar contract based on the elegance and grace he has while opening the hatch and passing over water bottles?
Nope, if Rask/Niemi/Lehtonen are all available, it's one of them for starter and the backup job will go to an Euro goalie, with Koskinen being the top candidate. Again, I've nothing against it if two of them decide to come after all, but coming up with a scenario like that requires some serious reaching.
---
Since those possible NHL additions for next week were mentioned, I'm trying to decipher what Jalonen's words in this piece might entail.
Apart from NA help, he notes that they're still watching players in Liiga and SHL, mentioning Kemppainen and Donskoi by name. And trying to recall players who have been with the NT this season who're still playing in the SHL, I can come up with two: Janne Pesonen and Tuomas Kiiskinen.
A pair of additional notes: I've been touting how I figure Osala might be the complementary player to Salminen and Immonen, but watching the games against Switzerland and last night vs. Germany, I really like the chemistry Hartikainen has with Immonen too.
I also think Salmela was playing in a pretty confident manner, especially on PP. The opponent wasn't much to write home about, but still. Rantanen collected some brownie points too. I wonder if Jalonen is serious about him?
So, after crunching some gears together, here's an alternate look to things:
Rask
Koskinen
Saros
Lepistö - Hietanen
Salmela - Ristolainen
Lindell - Jokipakka
Ohtamaa - Jaakola
Ruutu - Barkov - Jokinen
Salminen - Immonen - Hartikainen
Pesonen - Kontiola - Aaltonen
Donskoi - Kemppainen - Komarov
+Koskiranta, Rantanen
It's quite different from what I presented the day before, but still pretty wicked nice. Oh, the options available to us...
Last edited:
- Status
Ad
Upcoming events
-
-
Props Alex Ovechkin to Record 895th Career Goal During 2024/25 Regular SeasonWagers: 11Staked: $20,983.00Event closes - 6 days from now- Updated: