WC: 2015 — Team Finland

[FiLe]

I think it's perfectly justified to call out choices that you think are wrong. It can make for interesting conversation, and can help identify what were the controversial choices when looking back at the tournament, successful or not. What I don't feel is justified is calling the whole tournament a failure regardless of the end result simply because of some personal disagreement, though. If it turns out that things go well despite your objections, you have to own up and admit that the management had it right.

Pretty much what I've been trying to say. I disagreed with cutting RR as well, and there's certainly nothing wrong with saying so.

However, if you feel enclined to call the coach an idiot and the entire team a joke because you're disappointed with a single player being left out perhaps it's time to dial down the heater a little.

 

[FiLe]

You know D is weak weak weak and Canadien team especially is full of NHL superstars, Ristolainen played against them every night and now we have only Jokipakka who hasn't had the same pressure as Ristolainen has had. Pretty thin on the blueline.

Our D is no weaker than it has been the few years prior and we certainly haven't been blown out of the water whenever we've faced Canada. If we do this year and want to win, it's going to have to be a team effort anyway, Ristolainen alone can't turn it around.

And Ristolainen playing half the games in Buffalo is actually no argument at all for him being a proper fit for this team. The reason he played so much in there was because the Sabres are cultivating him to be a player who can play 30 minutes a night and stop Crosby & co. However, when you look at him playing, you can clearly say he is not that guy - yet. They could afford to have him develop and perhaps sacrifice some good results in the process because it made no difference to them whether the team wins or loses. Actually, they may have preferred the latter.

Team Finland's management however is not in the cultivating business. They don't need players who are on their way there - they need players who are already there. Yeah, we can ask if Mäntylä or Jokipakka or Ohtamaa or whoever we wish to pin it in the end is any more able to do it than still-raw Ristolainen. I know I'm asking those questions, but the point is, you can't just say "OMG 30mins in Buffalo belongs to this squad 4 sure!" because there's more to his role in his club team than that.

 

[BB88]

Our D is no weaker than it has been the few years prior and we certainly haven't been blown out of the water whenever we've faced Canada. If we do this year and want to win, it's going to have to be a team effort anyway, Ristolainen alone can't turn it around.

Yes but Canada is much stronger than it was before and our team as a whole is weaker.

And yes he can't turn it around but you can dress the best team possible for us to have a chance.

 

[FiLe]

Yes but Canada is much stronger than it was before and our team as a whole is weaker.

Our team is the best on paper since mid-2000s. How that compares to the rest of the participants in this particular tournament remains to be seen however, but again, the preoccupation you seem to have about the missing Ristolainen does not make it weak.

And yes he can't turn it around but you can dress the best team possible for us to have a chance.

Which is exactly what our coach thinks he's done. Like I said, he didn't cut Ristolainen to spite us who would have wanted to see him. He cut him because he figured another player is helping him achieve that "best possible team" status. Until we see a d-man in this team fail spectacularly, all we have is our idea of the ideal team against his. And he is the one with the job and the merit one needs to have to get a job like that. It does not make him infallible, but it does earn him the benefit of doubt.

 

[BB88]

Our team is the best on paper since mid-2000s. How that compares to the rest of the participants in this particular tournament remains to be seen however, but again, the preoccupation you seem to have about the missing Ristolainen does not make it weak.

Which is exactly what our coach thinks he's done. Like I said, he didn't cut Ristolainen to spite us who would have wanted to see him. He cut him because he figured another player is helping him achieve that "best possible team" status. Until we see a d-man in this team fail spectacularly, all we have is our idea of the ideal team against his. And he is the one with the job and the merit one needs to have to get a job like that. It does not make him infallible, but it does earn him the benefit of doubt.

Or he just made a mistake? Like I said coaches easily fell in love with players and reward them even when they haven't earned that.

How is it the best team since mid 2000? We have Barkov and Rinne as players who can really contribute and have that special talent level.
I just don't get the talk that we are favourites, we are challengers and I want us to go with that attitude, all in in every shift, prove everyone wrong. That's when we play our best game.

How do you guys see our skating this year? to me it looks a bit awkward.

 

[QnebO]

Well, Mäntylä was weak again. Ristolainen would bring everything Mäntylä does and more. I don't mind to continue about that anymore. It was mistake choise in my opinion and that's about it. This isn't getting anywhere. Mäntylä will probably play some good games and thats gonna be good for him. It doesn't mean Risto wouldn't.

This time the team showed up and had heart. That counts as good job by Kojo.

 

[JJTT]

I'd hope Kontiola and Ruutu are out tomorrow. Both of them were terrible again.

Kemppainen has been one of our best players. It's a joke that Kontiola gets more icetime.

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

I'd hope Kontiola and Ruutu are out tomorrow. Both of them were terrible again.

Kemppainen has been one of our best players. It's a joke that Kontiola gets more icetime.

Umm. Kontiola was good in the game I saw, perhaps confidence issues and tried too hard at some points, but good game.
Immonen on the other hand.. Did he play a single shift?

 

[rduck1]

Kontiola isn't playing with the same kind of confidence that we're used to. Very often, especially on the PP he would start to deke towards the center, look for the cross ice pass and... pass it to back the blueline. Seconds lost, nothing achieved. Maybe he'll get there, but I'd like the Barkov-unit to be the first choice until then. I'd perhaps also swap Donskoi and Pesonen 5-on-5.

Good effort today overall, though. Nobody was terrible, though it's pretty clear who excelled.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Kontiola isn't playing with the same kind of confidence that we're used to. Very often, especially on the PP he would start to deke towards the center, look for the cross ice pass and... pass it to back the blueline. Seconds lost, nothing achieved. Maybe he'll get there, but I'd like the Barkov-unit to be the first choice until then. I'd perhaps also swap Donskoi and Pesonen 5-on-5.

This season haven't been good for Kontiola at all. Played 2 best years of his career and had high hopes to break in to NHL this season. Instead he failed miserably and was held pointless in the AHL in 11 games. Wasn't great in the KHL either.

The few comments i've seen from him this year have had a depressing tone to them. His confidence is definitely low.

I hope he can still turn it around but he's not exactly the best athlete out there so this could in fact be a turning point for him and he's past his prime.

But let's talk about freaking Aaltonen. IMO was a disappointment all season long for Jokerit and he seems to play the same way. One of the most frustrating players to watch in Finnish history I miss the days when he first joined the national team and played with passion. Dangled through 3 Canadian players with that Jagr-esque hair.

 

[QnebO]

This season haven't been good for Kontiola at all. Played 2 best years of his career and had high hopes to break in to NHL this season. Instead he failed miserably and was held pointless in the AHL in 11 games. Wasn't great in the KHL either.

The few comments i've seen from him this year have had a depressing tone to them. His confidence is definitely low.

I hope he can still turn it around but he's not exactly the best athlete out there so this could in fact be a turning point for him and he's past his prime.

But let's talk about freaking Aaltonen. IMO was a disappointment all season long for Jokerit and he seems to play the same way. One of the most frustrating players to watch in Finnish history

Konna played with injuries in NA. That's why the failure. He is just getting back in form..

To my eye, Konna wasn't bad at all. He played good game. To my eye, his game looked better than some earlier years. I mean at least one thing in his game. This year his attitude looks like he actually cared, not trying to be over fancy ect and not straightening his back and surfing around at all. I don't really get the Konna criticism, he is actually playing good. He was engine for 1 st line. Created chances all the freankin time. Aaltonen trying those old timers and not scoring from them slowd the line production most tonight. During the years, I have been one of the strongest Konna criticist, who actually have said when Konna did things wrong. But you can't blame him this year. He works both ways, defends well, has not attitude problem anymore.

Aaltonen does lack passion. He would need high dose trip of Ayachusa / DMT. I don't see anything else heping that surfer anymore. Something is wrong with his attitude.
How ever he is so good, that it's a actually a good gamble to have him in the team. When he sometimes hits the "zone", it pays out. Even at surfing night, he does some good job and is at least pretty dangerous with the puck.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Konna played with injuries in NA. That's why the failure. He is just getting back in form..

To my eye, Konna wasn't bad at all. He played good game. To my eye, his game looked better than some earlier years. I mean at least one thing in his game. His attitude looked like he cared, not trying to be over fancy ect and not straightening his back and surfing around at all. I don't really get the Konna criticism, he is actually playing good. He was engine for 1 st line. Created chances all the freankin time. Aaltonen trying those old timers and not scoring from them slowd the line production most tonight.

I personally don't believe his injuries were that bad. But then again i could be wrong. Just basing it on comments i've seen from Toronto and himself.

But yeah i didn't mean he had a bad game. Just pointed out the struggles he's had this year to the previous poster.

 

[QnebO]

I personally don't believe his injuries were that bad. But then again i could be wrong. Just basing it on comments i've seen from Toronto and himself.

But yeah i didn't mean he had a bad game. Just pointed out the struggles he's had this year to the previous poster.

I was / am Konna "skeptic" about his NHL career, but I don't believe he was ever nearly as bad, to score 0+0 in AHL. Binoculars in AHL is too bad result for Konna, injuries must have affected alot imo.

Who knows, but injuries slowed Teemu down alot even though he played with the bad knee.. Then got it solved and scored 49 goals as veteran player.. Some times players should just reject to play with injury and fix it properly.

 

[FiLe]

Or he just made a mistake? Like I said coaches easily fell in love with players and reward them even when they haven't earned that.

Maybe he did. For the umpteenth time, I disagree with cutting RR too. All I'm saying is that it's too early to call whether we're right to disagree or not. In other words, he's earnt the benefit of doubt and it's pretty shortsighted not to grant him that. Simply put, to present doubt is all right. To flat out call it a mistake is foolish.

How is it the best team since mid 2000? We have Barkov and Rinne as players who can really contribute and have that special talent level.

It's better than anything we've iced on this decade at the very least. Last time we had better squad on paper was in 2008. Hindsight is a wonderful thing though, so looking back and recalling the results they may feel like better than what people initially thought about them.

The thing is however, there are far more players with "name" in this squad than we had in few previous iterations. Matter of fact, there are exactly zero players who feel like liabilities or cheap patches that leave a lot to be desired. Even the singled-out-target Mäntylä isn't one. Would Ristolainen have been better? Maybe. But Mäntylä isn't by any means a bad player.

---

As far as this game goes... well, a routine win, if you can call it that. Yes, we had a few so-so players - but not subpar ones. But we can afford to have a few since the journey is still in its early stages. Three points in a manner that was neither easy nor particularly hard is a passable result at this point.

Though of course we're again seeing the usual fan dumb in effect. A fan has a hate fetish on a player who puts up a passable result, the fan calls him bad. A player who was similarly passable, but the fan has no issue with him, gets a pass.

Kontiola, Ruutu or Mäntylä were neither good nor bad. Other players who fall into same category for tonight are Jokipakka, Hietanen, Ohtamaa and Immonen. But yeah, as long as they aren't liabilities, no one should have issues with them. Sadly, some basket cases do, simply because they've the preoccupation with their supposed badness.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

I was / am Konna "skeptic" about his NHL career, but I don't believe he was ever nearly as bad, to score 0+0 in AHL. Binoculars in AHL is too bad result for Konna, injuries must have affected alot imo.

Who knows, but injuries slowed Teemu down alot even though he played with the bad knee.. Then got it solved and scored 49 goals as veteran player.. Some times players should just reject to play with injury and fix it properly.

He wouldn't had played with significant injuries, even in the AHL. That's just the way i see it.

I think he was at least close to 100% health-wise at that point and then they tried to get him going but he just couldn't do it. Sure he's not that bad obviously but to give up that early in the season would hurt anybody's confidence. Especially since he didn't exactly come back roaring in the KHL.

Here's hoping he regains his scoring touch.

 

[QnebO]

.

Kontiola, Ruutu or Mäntylä were neither good nor bad. Other players who fall into same category for tonight are Jokipakka, Hietanen, Ohtamaa and Immonen. But yeah, as long as they aren't liabilities, no one should have issues with them. Sadly, some do basket cases do, simply because they've the preoccupation with their supposed badness.

For the other parts agreed, but I say Ruutu had good physicality and went to the net all the time very well. What else could you hope from him. Kontiola was playing as good as you could expect from him after this season, creating {alot} chances and doing defensive duties.

Mäntylä gets his pass but he had some moments there. He waits so long before giving the obvious pass.

 

[rduck1]

Konna played with injuries in NA. That's why the failure. He is just getting back in form..

To my eye, Konna wasn't bad at all. He played good game. To my eye, his game looked better than some earlier years. I mean at least one thing in his game. This year his attitude looks like he actually cared, not trying to be over fancy ect and not straightening his back and surfing around at all. I don't really get the Konna criticism, he is actually playing good. He was engine for 1 st line. Created chances all the freankin time. Aaltonen trying those old timers and not scoring from them slowd the line production most tonight. During the years, I have been one of the strongest Konna criticist, who actually have said when Konna did things wrong. But you can't blame him this year. He works both ways, defends well, has not attitude problem anymore.

Aaltonen does lack passion. He would need high dose trip of Ayachusa / DMT. I don't see anything else heping that surfer anymore. Something is wrong with his attitude.
How ever he is so good, that it's a actually a good gamble to have him in the team. When he sometimes hits the "zone", it pays out. Even at surfing night, he does some good job and is at least pretty dangerous with the puck.

He played a very decent and reliable game, but without the kind of creativity that he has had previously, and IMO needs to have to play in the #1 role. I'm not saying he should be scratched or anything, just that Barkov should be getting those bigger minutes especially on the power-play. Not that big of a deal though, and it might be a good choice on KJ's part if gets his mojo back.

Regarding Aaltonen, well... He is who he is. Sometimes I wonder whether he would even go behind the net on a breakaway . Still, quite an effective player in the end and we always have room for at least one artist in the lineup.

 

[QnebO]

He played a very decent and reliable game, but without the kind of creativity that he has had previously, and IMO needs to have to play in the #1 role. I'm not saying he should be scratched or anything, just that Barkov should be getting those bigger minutes especially on the power-play. Not that big of a deal though, and it might be a good choice on KJ's part if gets his mojo back.

Regarding Aaltonen, well... He is who he is. Sometimes I wonder whether he would even go behind the net on a breakaway . Still, quite an effective player in the end and we always have room for at least one artist in the lineup.

Agreed mostly. But I believe this "less creative" (=lower risk) Konna is actually money against the really tough opponents, too. When the fancy circus gets you, it stays in your game and it kills you against Canada or so, when it just doesn't work anymore and you disappear. Our PP had alot of shots from the blue line and traffic, instead of trying too hard cross box pass that would've failed..

Instead, if they are able to play even this straight forward and go to the net, they might be an asset in the playoff stage. I've blamed Konna disappearing in big games for that reason, but if he keeps this up, I have higher hopes.

 

[FiLe]

Kontiola isn't playing with the same kind of confidence that we're used to. Very often, especially on the PP he would start to deke towards the center, look for the cross ice pass and... pass it to back the blueline. Seconds lost, nothing achieved. Maybe he'll get there, but I'd like the Barkov-unit to be the first choice until then. I'd perhaps also swap Donskoi and Pesonen 5-on-5.

Good effort today overall, though. Nobody was terrible, though it's pretty clear who excelled.

This, pretty much. Currently the squad has some mediocre players and some good ones. Now we have to wait and see what the management can do to lift the former ones above mediocrity.

That being said, it does not feel like we have a single full unit or line that feels more like the sum of its parts. It's more like we have a handful of good individuals who are lucky to either play with other good individuals or slightly worse ones. So yeah, maybe they could fine-tune things a little to achieve something better.

I'd like to see the Kärpät duo together as well. Swapping Donskoi and Pesonen around would be the most obvious thing, but maybe we could do slightly more...

Pesonen-Kontiola-Aaltonen
Ruutu-Jokinen-Barkov
Donskoi-Kemppainen-Louhivaara
Komarov-Hytönen-Pihlström

The issue with Konna and JMA is that they're both movers, however neither is exactly a shooter nor are they overly physical. They could use someone who's got a nose for those "dirty" goals. Pesonen has a knack for that, we yet again got a display for it today.

Ruutu falls in this slot because, well, there's no other good spot for him. There's familiarity with Jokinen though and most importantly, JJ and Sasha are guys who make most of their goals out of straight shots or redirects, so a guy who clears the lane for 'em could be enough.

The bottom-two units are self-explanatory. I'd like to see if Hytönen could bring some more wheels to our main grinder unit though, since Immonen has been pretty anonymous.

 

[FiLe]

For the other parts agreed, but I say Ruutu had good physicality and went to the net all the time very well. What else could you hope from him. Kontiola was playing as good as you could expect from him after this season, creating {alot} chances and doing defensive duties.

Mäntylä gets his pass but he had some moments there. He waits so long before giving the obvious pass.

No argument from me. Konna and Ruutu play quite well given the circumstances, but they could maybe play little more effectively given their role. Which is why I called 'em neither good nor bad.

They both definitely get the pass that allows them to continue in the lineup. Not that we're the guys who grant those, but figuratively speaking.


I honestly don't expect great things from Mäntylä, but I'm sated with him as long as he isn't a liability. In that sense he's certainly doing all we can ask from a bottom-four guy.

 

[QnebO]

I honestly don't expect great things from Mäntylä, but I'm sated with him as long as he isn't a liability. In that sense he's certainly doing all we can ask from a bottom-four guy.

Same here, but it's not like he "jumped over the bar with room for another 20inch" if you think in height jump terms. He had few moments, not a stellar game and it was back-2-back denmark without NHL players. Later he'll face alot harder competitors and him being, either defending or giving the opening pass, makes me feel bit scared. I do hope, for the sake of our team and future game results, that I'm wrong about him.

 

[SoupyFIN]

Donskoi lost the puck (this exact same thing happened in the previous game as well) like 5 times by half assing it in the neutral zone and got caught by the guy backchecking. Wake up Joonas, this isn't Liiga hockey anymore.

Was Ohtamaa seriously this slow last year, what has happened to him? Danish players were skating by him left and right.

Rinne had a bounce back game, which was nice to see.

 

[Mestaruus]

Kemppainen looked great on the PP and PP face offs. I didn't notice him losing many face offs. The guy is just a beast and feels like he does every decision right. I hope some NHL team realizes to give him a shot, but I got a feeling we'll see him and Donskoi in Jokerit next season.

Was Ohtamaa seriously this slow last year, what has happened to him? Danish players were skating by him left and right.

Speaking of slow skating and defenders, everyone probably remembers that one moment when Jaakola had some trouble and Danish player almost got a break away. I hope it was a long shift, else that would make me worried.

 

[Loffer]

Time to wake up and forget those pipe dreams, guys. I mean if you still entertain such funny notions like Finland fairing in this little tourney. This team is a wreckage, like it or not.

 

[FiLe]

The Griffins advance. That saves us from one "what if" scenario.