WC: 2015 — Team Finland

[Periwinkle]

Yikes we are bad.

Was Ruutu's hit dirty? It seemed the main point of contact wasn't the head even if the player got cut.

 

[Jussi]

Russian refs are best in international hockey. Yeah, there have been few farces in history, but in general they are. KHL reffing is also really underrated with all the *****ing about it.

Said no one ever.

 

[QnebO]

Said no one ever.

The fact you always are whining about them means nothing. Watch the actual games in KHL or internationally.

Jokinen is nothing but garbage. Any mestis guy would perform better. That's shame. He played "how many turnovers it takes -game".

Edit:
I didin't mean they're better than Canadian NHL refs were in the olympics, but in Europe. Put it best refs from European leagues.

E2:
2+10 for osala, perfect call again.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Well, you'll get either Lehtera or Granlund, so the team will be stronger.

 

[FiLe]

Well, you'll get either Lehtera or Granlund, so the team will be stronger.

The fact that one of them will get eliminated is not a guarantee that one will come.

Granlund will also be out of contract.

 

[Jussi]

The fact you always are whining about them means nothing. Watch the actual games in KHL or internationally.

I've watched team Finland games since the 80's, son. There's a reason why Team Finland doesn't want a Russian ref for the important games at Worlds. Kummola even said it during Worlds some years ago.Why do you think Canada, US, Sweden and Czech would prefer to have a Finnish ref for their games?

 

[teddy83]

I've watched team Finland games since the 80's, son. There's a reason why Team Finland doesn't want a Russian ref for the important games at Worlds . Kummola even said it during Worlds some years ago.Why do you think Canada, US, Sweden and Czech would prefer to have a Finnish ref for their games?

Or Vinneborg

And Kari Jalonen, can you please throw JJ the **** away from Barkovs line, it's killing the whole team

 

[QnebO]

Lately they have been calling very well. The lack of weak penalties really lights up the games. Today Finland was so bad nothing could lit it though.

 

[FiLe]

Well, that was one big steaming pile of you-know-what.

It's really hard to name a best player, and while we saw many bad players, I think our glorious Captain Jokinen takes the cake home with that one. Of course, he was also slightly misutilized.

Speaking of which, it's a good thing that these are still preliminary games. It's a learning experience not only for what works, but as much for what doesn't work. Can't say what could be done to fix the 5-on-5, but I hope they know bury the idea of having 4F-1D on PP. It may work to some effect in the NHL, but it has never been all that brilliant plan on these European airfields.

Since the team has more than enough d-men who can man the blueline, just use 'em. There are Lepistö-Hietanen, and then there are Lindell/Salmela/Mäntylä-Ristolainen/Lajunen. Far less risk of turnovers, of the kind that cost us the game today.

Even if I said it's hard to call out the best players, let's say that Kontiola was slightly better than today's average (which still isn't much) - we can stop speculating whether he'll make it or not. He will. Also, Jokipakka was a small bright spot in the darkness. He was rather calm all the time, had good possession and knew how to position himself.

---

I was willing to give some rope to Barkov-Jokinen duo, but yeah... it's not looking good. At least in his current form, Juice seems to be holding Sasha back. Though do we have better players available to complement Barkov, and what should we do with Jokinen then?

I've been saying I see no room for Palola, but looking at these last two games, hmm...

Komarov - Barkov - Palola
Ruutu - Kontiola - Aaltonen
Donskoi - Kemppainen - Jokinen

Then some mixture of remaining options for 4th line.

---

Of the D, it's pretty damn hard to say who are going to make and who are not. Apart from Lepistö and Hietanen, that is. Can't even be all that sold on Ristolainen. Don't get me wrong - I'd have him, but I could also see a scenario where Lajunen makes it in his stead. Coaches are funny like that.

---

Of the netminders, Engren is clearly not a guy who can bring calm to the team that plays bad in front of him. He's a good guy to have when the players are in control to begin with, but clearly not someone who's gonna steal a game by himself. So Rinne/Koskinen for starter and Saros for backup, plz.

 

[Mestaruus]

I'm dreaming we can get Lehterä, Filppula & Rinne. Then we don't have to take Kontiola. I know KJ won't drop out Kontiola, but one has to have dreams. I'm fine with keeping him among the 14 forwards though.

Filppula-Barkov-Palola
J.Jokinen-Lehterä-Komarov
Donskoi-Kemppainen-Aaltonen
Ruutu-Immonen-Pihlström/Hartikainen

 

[Jussi]

I'm dreaming we can get Lehterä, Filppula & Rinne. Then we don't have to take Kontiola. I know KJ won't drop out Kontiola, but one has to have dreams. I'm fine with keeping him among the 14 forwards though.

Filppula-Barkov-Palola
J.Jokinen-Lehterä-Komarov
Donskoi-Kemppainen-Aaltonen
Ruutu-Immonen-Pihlström/Hartikainen

Rinne is supposedly playing through an injury in the playoffs, I wouldn't get my hopes up for him joining the team.

 

[JJTT]

I'd put Barkov with Donskoi and J.Pesonen. Both can hold on to the puck for more than 3 seconds unlike Jokinen.

Pesonen-Barkov-Donskoi
Ruutu-Kontiola-Aaltonen
Jokinen-Kemppainen-Palola
Pihlström-Immonen-Komarov

 

[Mestaruus]

Of the D, it's pretty damn hard to say who are going to make and who are not. Apart from Lepistö and Hietanen, that is. Can't even be all that sold on Ristolainen. Don't get me wrong - I'd have him, but I could also see a scenario where Lajunen makes it in his stead. Coaches are funny like that.

---

Of the netminders, Engren is clearly not a guy who can bring calm to the team that plays bad in front of him. He's a good guy to have when the players are in control to begin with, but clearly not someone who's gonna steal a game by himself. So Rinne/Koskinen for starter and Saros for backup, plz.

Salmela should be 3rd locked defender in my opinion. I haven't noticed big **** ups by him. Atte Ohtamaa has seemed all right as well and so has Jaakola. About our NHL defenders I'm not sure. They'll have to improve in the last game and that decides it.

I do like Saros over Engren as well.

 

[Mestaruus]

Rinne is supposedly playing through an injury in the playoffs, I wouldn't get my hopes up for him joining the team.

He better not . That would suck.

 

[Mestaruus]

I'd put Barkov with Donskoi and J.Pesonen. Both can hold on to the puck for more than 3 seconds unlike Jokinen.

Pesonen-Barkov-Donskoi
Ruutu-Kontiola-Aaltonen
Jokinen-Kemppainen-Palola
Pihlström-Immonen-Komarov

Yup it's an option to have Donskoi & Kemppainen separated like that also. How are we going to take full advantage of Donskoi's & Kemppainen's chemistry though? I guess use 4 forwards on a PP unit (like Jalonen has been doing in Leijonat practise all the time) and let Kemppainen take the face off since he seems to be a beast in those.

You should swap Ruutu & Jokinen though.

 

[Sabane]

My dream team would be something like this:

Jokinen - Barkov - Pesonen
Komarov - Kontiola - Aaltonen
Donskoi - Immonen - Palola
Ruutu - Hytönen - Hartikainen

Hietanen - Lepisto
Ristolainen - Lindell
Jokipakka - Jaakola

Koskinen (Saros)

I really dislike this odd 8 D-man strategy Finland has used for a while now. Kemppainen has been good for the playoffs but it just isn't enough, we have too many good centers. If Lehtera would come, byebye Kontiola. If Wild would lost and we would get even some of these guys Koivu/MG/Bergenheim it would be awesome. Bergenheim - Barkov - Palola
MG - Koivu - Jokinen sounds pretty awesome top 6....

 

[FiLe]

I really dislike this odd 8 D-man strategy Finland has used for a while now.

Why? It's actually proven to be a highly effective method - which is the reason why it's still in use whenever the tournament format allows it. Increasing the minutes of subpar guys tends to only increase the chance of decisive mistakes. Last year's final is a good example of that. Defensive lapses cost us that game at least as much as questionable reffing did. You should only use three pairs if you've got 4-5 top class NHL d-men who are used to playing more than 20 minutes a game.

And most of the time we don't.

 

[Sabane]

Why? It's actually proven to be a highly effective method - which is the reason why it's still in use whenever the tournament format allows it. Increasing the minutes of subpar guys tends to only increase the chance of decisive mistakes. Last year's final is a good example of that. Defensive lapses cost us that game at least as much as questionable reffing did. You should only use three pairs if you've got 4-5 top class NHL d-men who are used to playing more than 20 minutes a game.

And most of the time we don't.

It is proven to work when we have these guys like Ossi Vaananen, Lasse Kukkonen etc defensive defencemen. Now I see that Finland has more offensive minded D-men (or at least 2-way).

For example Esa Lindell, he used to play about 20min/game at FEL. Now he's not going to play power play and we have a lot better players to play PK also. He's now going to play something like 10min/game (8 D-men). That means he's not going to get the puck nearly as often as he's used to and that is going to affect hes "touch".

IMO players have used to play with 6 D-men and they are fit enough to play like that at WC also. I, personally, just don't get the point to play like the have played lately (8 D-men).

 

[Esko6]

No matter what happens in the tournament, the magic of the blood oath will always protect us, that mark of metallic brotherhood.

 

[FiLe]

For example Esa Lindell, he used to play about 20min/game at FEL. Now he's not going to play power play and we have a lot better players to play PK also. He's now going to play something like 10min/game (8 D-men). That means he's not going to get the puck nearly as often as he's used to and that is going to affect hes "touch".

Lindell has played quite a bit of PP in these preliminary games. Given how we don't have a ton of more established NHL guys coming in, I don't see what makes you figure that will change if he makes the final team.

Also #mathfail. 4x10 = 40. With four pairs we play like an entire period completely without d-men? No wonder you dislike the idea so much.


Seriously. Four pairs means that the top pair will play around 17-18 minutes, pairs two and three roughly 15 minutes and the bottom pair around 12-13 minutes - though they might be more or less depending on how much PP and PK there are in a game. And if Lindell makes it, he'll likely be in a pair that plays around 15 minutes, which is not that big of a shave off his TOIs. Also, with guys like Jaakola, Ohtamaa and Jokipakka potentially in, there is also a fair complement of these stay-at-home guys - actually no less than there'd be any other year.

So your complaints are entirely unfounded.

 

[Mestaruus]

Lines for today:
Maalivahdit: 32 Juuse Saros (35 Atte Engren)

1. kenttä:
15 Tuomo Ruutu - 27 Petri Kontiola - 50 Juhamatti Aaltonen
18 Sami Lepistö - 38 Juuso Hietanen

2. kenttä:
36 Jussi Jokinen - 16 Aleksander Barkov - 37 Ossi Louhivaara
28 Anssi Salmela - 7 Esa Lindell

3. kenttä:
41 Antti Pihlström - 26 Jarkko Immonen - 70 Teemu Hartikainen
55 Atte Ohtamaa - 5 Rasmus Ristolainen

4. kenttä:
62 Oskar Osala - 13 Petteri Wirtanen - 61 Tommi Huhtala
2 Jyrki Jokipakka - 47 Ville Lajunen

13. hyökkääjä: 58 Harri Pesonen

Something tells me KJ has locked those 3 first offensive lines already for the tournament, with the exception of Komarov replacing Louhivaara. Each player in #4 line are still battling for spots with the rest.

 

[Sabane]

Lindell has played quite a bit of PP in these preliminary games. Given how we don't have a ton of more established NHL guys coming in, I don't see what makes you figure that will change if he makes the final team.

Also #mathfail. 4x10 = 40. With four pairs we play like an entire period completely without d-men? No wonder you dislike the idea so much.


Seriously. Four pairs means that the top pair will play around 17-18 minutes, pairs two and three roughly 15 minutes and the bottom pair around 12-13 minutes - though they might be more or less depending on how much PP and PK there are in a game. And if Lindell makes it, he'll likely be in a pair that plays around 15 minutes, which is not that big of a shave off his TOIs. Also, with guys like Jaakola, Ohtamaa and Jokipakka potentially in, there is also a fair complement of these stay-at-home guys - actually no less than there'd be any other year.

So your complaints are entirely unfounded.

#mathfail indicates that every D-men plays equally the same time. In my math special team D-men plays +20min and these "drop-offs" a lot less (if 6 D-men ice time would divide a lot more even). Let me ask you a question. Where would you draw the line of the amount of players? I mean if we would allowed to have for example 12 D-men and 18 forwards, would we play with 6 pairs of D-men and 6 lines of forwards?

 

[QnebO]

Barkov and JJ still in the same line. Lord help us to make even QF in the tournament, the coach won't change non-working lines.

 

[rduck1]

It is proven to work when we have these guys like Ossi Vaananen, Lasse Kukkonen etc defensive defencemen. Now I see that Finland has more offensive minded D-men (or at least 2-way).

For example Esa Lindell, he used to play about 20min/game at FEL. Now he's not going to play power play and we have a lot better players to play PK also. He's now going to play something like 10min/game (8 D-men). That means he's not going to get the puck nearly as often as he's used to and that is going to affect hes "touch".

IMO players have used to play with 6 D-men and they are fit enough to play like that at WC also. I, personally, just don't get the point to play like the have played lately (8 D-men).

Thing is, it's a short tournament with a lot of games, and it's played after the players have finished a complete club season. Having players log Ryan Suter minutes or anything remotely close on this kind of schedule would be very unwise in my opinion, especially with the material we have available. Having depth and saving energy is highly advantageous in this type of tournament.

Having four pairs also enables the coaches to adjust better when players are struggling, as they have more options available and don't need to play that struggling player for 15-20 minutes per match. It also presents some extra tactical options, eg. giving better control over zone starts for some players due to fatigue being less of a factor in line selection. How many times have we seen the offensive minded pair get thrown out there and scored on, just because everyone else was too tired to take that shift? Too often I think, and having four pairs available helps to mitigate that.

In my opinion, these advantages far outweigh any concerns about what the players are used to or how it could affect their rhythm.

 

[FiLe]

In my math special team D-men plays +20min and these "drop-offs" a lot less (if 6 D-men ice time would divide a lot more even). Let me ask you a question. Where would you draw the line of the amount of players? I mean if we would allowed to have for example 12 D-men and 18 forwards, would we play with 6 pairs of D-men and 6 lines of forwards?

Your math is still off. For example, even in Sochi with all those NHLers, four full pairs were utilized and yet we didn't have a single skater in the entire team who played even twenty minutes. And I don't mean by average - no skater got past that mark in a single game. Olli Määttä got closest in the QF against Russia, when he clocked a TOI of 19:54 over 24 shifts.

It's like I said. In an average game your top guys play 17-18 minutes, pairs 2-3 play around 15 minutes and the bottom pair plays roughly 12-13 minutes. I have the stats to back it up and there's also NO indicator whatsoever that it has been harmful to the team effort, on the contrary. The cutoff in from their "usual" times are so narrow that it does not affect their game at all.

Bottom line: You decided go with mutu feelings and therefore ended up with statements that have no basis in reality.