WJC: 2015 — Canada Roster Talk (Part IV)

[1Gold Standard]

Vegas odds > your 10 person sample on HfBoards if you're talking about favourites and underdogs.

My predictions have been right for most of the past 10 years. but I did get the Ufa tournament wrong.

 

[1Gold Standard]

No one's saying its not a wide open tournament, but claiming Canada to be "underdogs" is wrong.

Did I call them underdogs? that that up with whoever did.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Did I call them underdogs? that that up with whoever did.

Well the post you originally quoted of mine was was a response to someone claiming Canada to be underdogs in the tournament.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Well the post you originally quoted of mine was was a response to someone claiming Canada to be underdogs in the tournament.

and you used a Canadian source to say Canada was favorites.

I sited a Russian source that claims U.S. and Russia are co-favorites and Canada not so much...

so there ya go!

Favorites/underdogs are in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Alerion]

TSN Hockey ‏@TSNHockey 9m9 minutes ago
JUST IN: @HockeyCanada announces that @Fucale31 starts tonight against Switzerland at the Bell Centre in Montreal.

Let the complaining begin.

Honestly I see no problem with this. Either Fucale plays badly and he doesn't get the number 1 job or he plays solid enough that he starts to trend upwards.

Agreed. This is more of a "show us something or we roll with Comrie the whole tournament" kinda start as far as I'm concerned.

 

[FLYguy3911]

and you used a Canadian source to say Canada was favorites.

I sited a Russian source that claims U.S. and Russia are co-favorites and Canada not so much...

so there ya go!

Favorites/underdogs are in the eye of the beholder.

I listed an American source too boss.

What's the Russian source?

 

[JackSlater]

I think we're seen as an underdog. I don't think all that's many people see us as a top 2 team. Also I think the Americans are heavily favoured.

It's either insane or disingenuous to view Canada as an underdog here. They can lose, absolutely, but they are no underdog. I see no reason for USA to be favoured, particularly when Canada has a better roster. There are probably six teams with a legitimate chance to win this year, and thus no heavy favourite.

 

[CrazyJoeDavola]

It's either insane or disingenuous to view Canada as an underdog here. They can lose, absolutely, but they are no underdog. I see no reason for USA to be favoured, particularly when Canada has a better roster. There are probably six teams with a legitimate chance to win this year, and thus no heavy favourite.

I think our d corps is slightly better, but imo the USA fwd lineup is faster and deeper than ours. Their bottom 6 is lethal.

 

[Paxon]

I think our d corps is slightly better, but imo the USA fwd lineup is faster and deeper than ours. Their bottom 6 is lethal.

That's how I see it. We have some legit studs back there in Hanifin and Werenski but they're draft-eligibles. Canada has some high-end guys with experience.

 

[JackSlater]

I think our d corps is slightly better, but imo the USA fwd lineup is faster and deeper than ours. Their bottom 6 is lethal.

I don't see it. Eichel should be great, but other than that I don't see anything scary. Matthews is still quite young, and he's supposed to carry a big load as the second line centre. It's not the same as having Reinhart in that spot. Larkin is a solid depth centre, but not so dangerous. Some quality wingers, but not any guys comparable to Lazar and Duclair. No player as good as Virtanen on the fourth line. It's a good group of forwards, but I don't see them as deeper or better than what Canada has this year.

 

[Plub]

I don't see it. Eichel should be great, but other than that I don't see anything scary. Matthews is still quite young, and he's supposed to carry a big load as the second line centre. It's not the same as having Reinhart in that spot. Larkin is a solid depth centre, but not so dangerous. Some quality wingers, but not any guys comparable to Lazar and Duclair. No player as good as Virtanen on the fourth line. It's a good group of forwards, but I don't see them as deeper or better than what Canada has this year.

You're using a whole lot of personal opinion(bias) in this post. Which is why many would disagree. You're pretty much selling the entire American roster short.

 

[CrazyJoeDavola]

I don't see it. Eichel should be great, but other than that I don't see anything scary. Matthews is still quite young, and he's supposed to carry a big load as the second line centre. It's not the same as having Reinhart in that spot. Larkin is a solid depth centre, but not so dangerous. Some quality wingers, but not any guys comparable to Lazar and Duclair. No player as good as Virtanen on the fourth line. It's a good group of forwards, but I don't see them as deeper or better than what Canada has this year.

As good as I think Lazar is, he's very overrated on this board. He's gritty and responsible, but his offensive production has never been elite; he's no gamebreaker but he does bring leadership to the room. I see guys like Tuch on his same level. Bigger, faster, and more skilled.

Regarding our d corps, we have the better all around group back there, but USA has game breaking offensive talent from the blue line that we just don't have. That could very well be a difference in this tourney. Other than Morrisey with a couple of nice shots, our offense from the the d (in the other team's zone) has looked pretty average at best.

 

[Get North]

Lazar is way better than Tuch. Line to line, Canada is better except for maybe the 3rd line, USA has alot of young players on their team. They have like 4 returnees, Matthews is 17. Canada has age over the US, top 2 lines of Canada are better than the Americans IMO, and they'll be playing the most.

Defence goes for Canada aswell IMO, USA might have Hanifin and Werenski in the top 4, both will be 17 while we have Nurse, Morrissey, Theodore and Bowey all 19 and highly skilled.

 

[CrazyJoeDavola]

Lazar is way better than Tuch. Line to line, Canada is better except for maybe the 3rd line, USA has alot of young players on their team. They have like 4 returnees, Matthews is 17. Canada has age over the US, top 2 lines of Canada are better than the Americans IMO, and they'll be playing the most.

Defence goes for Canada aswell IMO, USA might have Hanifin and Werenski in the top 4, both will be 17 while we have Nurse, Morrissey, Theodore and Bowey all 19 and highly skilled.

Sure. Our defense is older, bigger, and more defensively solid. Nobody is questioning that. We don't have a Hanafin, DeAngelo, or Butcher, though; guys that are going to have the puck on a string and make some incredible offensive plays. Sure, those guys are pure offense and risky but what happens when we need a big goal and our fwds are struggling? I just don't see us getting one from anyone back there. The Americans won't be as solid defensively as us but there is a very good chance that their squad can outgun ever team to the gold medal.

I don't like Ritchie on our 2nd line, nor do I like Gauthier, Crouse, and Paul. If we have Virtanen in the top 9 and MDC on this team, I would definitely agree that we clearly have the better squad. All I see is our stud top line with a pretty good 2nd line. Paul and Petan are overrated, imo. That American 3rd line of Larkin, Motte, and Fasching is going to wreak havoc on us.

Call me a skeptic, but we're all pinning our chances on McDavid being a top player in this tournament. If he's not, we have an average at best 2nd line, and we won't win gold. Now if Fabbri gets moved up and we juggle the lines, I may be changing my tune. I just look out our 2nd line down and see overrated two way forwards that can't be counted on to score big goals and big times when the going gets tough.

I hope I get proven wrong, though.

 

[BigD66]

Sure. Our defense is older, bigger, and more defensively solid. Nobody is questioning that. We don't have a Hanafin, DeAngelo, or Butcher, though; guys that are going to have the puck on a string and make some incredible offensive plays. Sure, those guys are pure offense and risky but what happens when we need a big goal and our fwds are struggling? I just don't see us getting one from anyone back there. The Americans won't be as solid defensively as us but there is a very good chance that their squad can outgun ever team to the gold medal.

Yeah man too bad Canada doesn't have any offensive D-men...

 

[PRNuck]

I think our d corps is slightly better, but imo the USA fwd lineup is faster and deeper than ours. Their bottom 6 is lethal.

I dunno about the D, I think McCoshen's going to have a huge tourney, and if Santini can play...I'd definitely give the US D the edge.

 

[xxxx]

Prove who wrong? I think the majority believes Canada has the best team on paper..and if not the best than definitely top 2. Either way, canada is not some sort of "underdog" that if they win that means they proved people wrong.

I think it's more about the people who place Canada at 3rd/4th place just because of last two years.... this is of course a new team, everything....but the reality is, Canada hasn't won a gold-medal since 2009, that's quite a lot of time. That's why some people tend to think Canada falls again, for whatever reason.

In my opinion, this could be one of the best tournaments for Canada since 2005.

 

[Leviathan899]

Sure. Our defense is older, bigger, and more defensively solid. Nobody is questioning that. We don't have a Hanafin, DeAngelo, or Butcher, though; guys that are going to have the puck on a string and make some incredible offensive plays. Sure, those guys are pure offense and risky but what happens when we need a big goal and our fwds are struggling? I just don't see us getting one from anyone back there. The Americans won't be as solid defensively as us but there is a very good chance that their squad can outgun ever team to the gold medal.

I don't like Ritchie on our 2nd line, nor do I like Gauthier, Crouse, and Paul. If we have Virtanen in the top 9 and MDC on this team, I would definitely agree that we clearly have the better squad. All I see is our stud top line with a pretty good 2nd line. Paul and Petan are overrated, imo. That American 3rd line of Larkin, Motte, and Fasching is going to wreak havoc on us.

Call me a skeptic, but we're all pinning our chances on McDavid being a top player in this tournament. If he's not, we have an average at best 2nd line, and we won't win gold. Now if Fabbri gets moved up and we juggle the lines, I may be changing my tune. I just look out our 2nd line down and see overrated two way forwards that can't be counted on to score big goals and big times when the going gets tough.

I hope I get proven wrong, though.

Hanifin most likely has the best potential of all of our D going forward, but right now I doubt he's any more effective than Darnell Nurse will be. Also, DeAngelo is a huge liability in his own end and will struggle mightily against a good team in this tournament, heck he does in the OHL. Very good offensively but if he ever has to spend time in his own end look out. Also, we have many guys like Butcher, he is a good player but I take every player on our defense over him minus Heatherington.

 

[JackSlater]

You're using a whole lot of personal opinion(bias) in this post. Which is why many would disagree. You're pretty much selling the entire American roster short.

Demonstrate where I said something inaccurate. The American forwards are good, but I don't see them as comparable to the Canadian forwards this year. Before anyone gets ahead of themselves, no that does not preclude the American team from winning.

 

[D0ctorCool]

I don't like to jump on the Virtanen wagon as there are enough Canuck fans doing that already, but he looked dynamite out there. I don't know why Canada decided to pair him with quicksand, but I have to think that his role will expand as the tourney continues.

I liked the Fabbri line, but agree that maybe one of Fabbri or Virtanen should get a tryout on the McDavid line. People will argue that Fabbri deserves it more, and while I don't disagree, I felt that Paul, Fabbri and Petan are starting to find some real chemistry, so I wouldn't want to disrupt that. Keep all the lines intact to start next game, and if things aren't jiving at the halfway mark, I'd start making changes.

On the plus side, the D is looking mostly good, and our top line is looking fantastic. Just a few more tweaks and I think we'll be set.

 

[lawrence]

I don't like to jump on the Virtanen wagon as there are enough Canuck fans doing that already, but he looked dynamite out there. I don't know why Canada decided to pair him with quicksand, but I have to think that his role will expand as the tourney continues.

I liked the Fabbri line, but agree that maybe one of Fabbri or Virtanen should get a tryout on the McDavid line. People will argue that Fabbri deserves it more, and while I don't disagree, I felt that Paul, Fabbri and Petan are starting to find some real chemistry, so I wouldn't want to disrupt that. Keep all the lines intact to start next game, and if things aren't jiving at the halfway mark, I'd start making changes.

On the plus side, the D is looking mostly good, and our top line is looking fantastic. Just a few more tweaks and I think we'll be set.

Jake Virtannen has been praised for the way he's been playing by non Canucks fans too. just visit the game day threads.

 

[Tv9924]

Lazar hasn't necessarily been bad, but I don't feel that he and McDavid have clicked and I think he would be more valuable to the team as the center of a checking line.

Domi-Reinhart-Duclair
Nothing to say about that, they're electrifying.
Ritchie-McDavid-Fabbri
If I'm not wrong this line played together and had chemistry in the summer. Ritchie brings the physical element and Fabbri compliments McDseed and skill.
Paul-Lazar-Virtanen
This line would go head to head against the other teams' top lines. They're big, defensively responsible, and can really shoot the puck.
Crouse-Petan-Point
This would probably be the most skilled fourth line in the tournament, and I believe they won't be a liability defensively.
Gauthier
Gauthier.

 

[Tobi Wan Kenobi]

Lazar hasn't necessarily been bad, but I don't feel that he and McDavid have clicked and I think he would be more valuable to the team as the center of a checking line.

Domi-Reinhart-Duclair
Nothing to say about that, they're electrifying.
Ritchie-McDavid-Fabbri
If I'm not wrong this line played together and had chemistry in the summer. Ritchie brings the physical element and Fabbri compliments McDseed and skill.
Paul-Lazar-Virtanen
This line would go head to head against the other teams' top lines. They're big, defensively responsible, and can really shoot the puck.
Crouse-Petan-Point
This would probably be the most skilled fourth line in the tournament, and I believe they won't be a liability defensively.
Gauthier
Gauthier.

Bingo

 

[jdatb]

Gauthier
Gauthier.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[chaosrevolver]

Lazar hasn't necessarily been bad, but I don't feel that he and McDavid have clicked and I think he would be more valuable to the team as the center of a checking line.

Domi-Reinhart-Duclair
Nothing to say about that, they're electrifying.
Ritchie-McDavid-Fabbri
If I'm not wrong this line played together and had chemistry in the summer. Ritchie brings the physical element and Fabbri compliments McDseed and skill.
Paul-Lazar-Virtanen
This line would go head to head against the other teams' top lines. They're big, defensively responsible, and can really shoot the puck.
Crouse-Petan-Point
This would probably be the most skilled fourth line in the tournament, and I believe they won't be a liability defensively.
Gauthier
Gauthier.

Pretty dynamite honestly.