WJC: 2015 — Canada Roster Talk (Part II)

[Royal Canuck]

Pulling for the local boy Joe Hicketts to have a good camp and contend for a spot on the roster. Definitely on the outside looking in, but that's never stopped him.

 

[jetz0*]

Not really sure what all the hype is about Baptiste. He's a rare RW on this team but there's way better players than him.

 

[jetz0*]

With the news that Duclair is being released to the team, I see the roster shaking down something like this.

Domi- McDavid- Fabbri
Dal Colle- Reinhart- Duclair
Ritchie- Petan- Virtanen
Dickinson- Gauthier- Baptiste
Point

Morrissey- Bowey
Nurse- Theodore
Sanheim- Bigras
Fleury

With the rest of the roster remaining the same.

Probably the best lineup yet. I'd switch Baptiste with Chartier. Or have Baptiste as the 13th forward. I will be posting my team around 11am

 

[biturbo19]

Not really sure what all the hype is about Baptiste. He's a rare RW on this team but there's way better players than him.

In addition to being a Right shot natural RW (which the team is short on), he's got a very nice combo of size, speed, tenacity...to go with the goal scoring ability which is very much WJC calibre. He very much fits the mold of the sort of team Canada always wants to take to every event. And on top of that, he did some yeoman's work at the U18s in a Team Canada jersey.

It's not really "hype", so much as...why not take him?

 

[gregvf]

Hey, new to this forum, wanted to find a place to get excited about this great tournament!

Anyways, one thing no one has mentioned...This is on North American Ice...these big Virtanen's and Ritchie's up front...as well as Morin on the back end I don't think is as big of a deal if it was on International Ice...thoughts?

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

when does camp open?

 

[tsujimoto74]

In addition to being a Right shot natural RW (which the team is short on), he's got a very nice combo of size, speed, tenacity...to go with the goal scoring ability which is very much WJC calibre. He very much fits the mold of the sort of team Canada always wants to take to every event. And on top of that, he did some yeoman's work at the U18s in a Team Canada jersey.

It's not really "hype", so much as...why not take him?

Yeah, he definitely seems like the type of player Canada always wants at these things. He's got good size, he's super fast (quite possibly one of the best skaters Canada has available to them), can just as easily be slotted on the 2nd line or the 4th line, and definitely has a knack for scoring goals (over 40 last year on a pretty mediocre Wolves team is nothing to sneeze at). I don't think anyone expects him to be a key cog like McDavid or Reinhart, but he should have a role on the team.

 

[1Gold Standard]

when does camp open?

They should be heading to the MasterCard Center now for their 1st practice. unless winter weather interferes with those plans.

 

[86Habs]

I don't agree as they are three fairly similar players who bring fairly similar things to a team. I think a more effective team would include more players that bring some different elements.

Just based on how the Canadian Olympic team has been built, for starters, it's not a surprise that they were so effective even though certain players that play pro games kinda like these guys were omitted.

I would be in favour of eliminating redundancy with this lineup, largely because of what we've seen from junior squads lately... Has NOT worked.

This is the McDavid year anyway. 'Lack of top-end offense' should not be a problem. So with that in mind, perhaps build the tournament team a bit less like an all-star team. imho

I respectfully disagree. Firstly, McDavid may not be 100% by boxing day and even if he was, its likely a bit presumptuous (if not unfair) to pin our hopes and dreams squarely on his shoulders, especially when we have offensive threats like Reinhart, Virtanen, Dal Colle, Duclair, Fabbri, (and Petan) also on the roster. Seeing how you watched the Olympics and drawn conclusions from it, one of the critical aspects (in my view) of our success in 2010 and 2014 was a balanced scoring attack, rather than putting all of our eggs in one basket, so to speak. Secondly, having a balanced two-way line to match-up against the opposition's best lines was invaluable in both tournaments...which is the exact reason I wouldn't have Gauthier on my team.

Assuming McDavid and Reinhart are your top 2 centers (and Reinhart has consistenly moved to RW in the past), and Fabbri has also moved to the wing on lines with McDavid during the summer evaluation, I see Petan firmly locked-in to that #3C spot. The #4C spot can then go to Fabbri, if you want to keep him at his natural position and roll four balanced scoring lines, Gauthier if you want a more defensive-oriented line (with minimal offensive upside), or Dickinson if you want more versatility out of that line. I would take Petan over someone like Elie 100 x out of 100, even if you could argue that Petan is somewhat redundant with Fabbri. With someone like Point, yes, I could see him being fairly redundant with Petan...but Petan is the more experienced player and I wouldn't hesitate to choose him.

And I don't believe your analogy with the Olympic team holds (assuming you're referring largely to Giroux). If anything, the Olympic team had a logjam of centermen, and with Crosby, Toews and Getzlaf locked in to the top-3 spots, with Bergeron a C/RW, they had a choice between Tavares and Giroux and selected Tavares. If I was running the team I would have certainly selected Giroux and Tavares, but in retrospect they built from the center position out, with the size and shooters on the wing and the playmakers at center, and didn't see Giroux as convertible to the wing under that offensive philosophy. Petan would be a perfect candidate to play center if you were to transpose the Olympic "philosophy" onto the Junior team...with Fabbri switching to the wing, where he has demonstrated some comfort, and his style of play is suitable to that position.

 

[Tripod]

Hey, new to this forum, wanted to find a place to get excited about this great tournament!

Anyways, one thing no one has mentioned...This is on North American Ice...these big Virtanen's and Ritchie's up front...as well as Morin on the back end I don't think is as big of a deal if it was on International Ice...thoughts?

Welcome.

This is a great place to get info, hear about prospects you don't get to see, play GM, and rip on your own team...and the Leafs because that's always fun.

As a Flyer fan...I too agree that the smaller ice will be better for a guy like Morin.

It seems to be split on Morin making it or not.

The one thing that could hurt him is that me does have a temper and could take an un-timely penalty. But of course, I want Morin and Sanheim on the team!

No matter who gets picked, there will be some great D who are left behind.

 

[TOML]

I respectfully disagree. Firstly, McDavid may not be 100% by boxing day and even if he was, its likely a bit presumptuous (if not unfair) to pin our hopes and dreams squarely on his shoulders, especially when we have offensive threats like Reinhart, Virtanen, Dal Colle, Duclair, Fabbri, (and Petan) also on the roster. Seeing how you watched the Olympics and drawn conclusions from it, one of the critical aspects (in my view) of our success in 2010 and 2014 was a balanced scoring attack, rather than putting all of our eggs in one basket, so to speak. Secondly, having a balanced two-way line to match-up against the opposition's best lines was invaluable in both tournaments...which is the exact reason I wouldn't have Gauthier on my team.

Assuming McDavid and Reinhart are your top 2 centers (and Reinhart has consistenly moved to RW in the past), and Fabbri has also moved to the wing on lines with McDavid during the summer evaluation, I see Petan firmly locked-in to that #3C spot. The #4C spot can then go to Fabbri, if you want to keep him at his natural position and roll four balanced scoring lines, Gauthier if you want a more defensive-oriented line (with minimal offensive upside), or Dickinson if you want more versatility out of that line. I would take Petan over someone like Elie 100 x out of 100, even if you could argue that Petan is somewhat redundant with Fabbri. With someone like Point, yes, I could see him being fairly redundant with Petan...but Petan is the more experienced player and I wouldn't hesitate to choose him.

And I don't believe your analogy with the Olympic team holds (assuming you're referring largely to Giroux). If anything, the Olympic team had a logjam of centermen, and with Crosby, Toews and Getzlaf locked in to the top-3 spots, with Bergeron a C/RW, they had a choice between Tavares and Giroux and selected Tavares. If I was running the team I would have certainly selected Giroux and Tavares, but in retrospect they built from the center position out, with the size and shooters on the wing and the playmakers at center, and didn't see Giroux as convertible to the wing under that offensive philosophy. Petan would be a perfect candidate to play center if you were to transpose the Olympic "philosophy" onto the Junior team...with Fabbri switching to the wing, where he has demonstrated some comfort, and his style of play is suitable to that position.

The Olympics featured balanced scoring, yes, but also tremendous puck control, great board play and fantastic 2-way play combined with a size advantage. There's nothing wrong with that formula, obviously.

I guess I'm narrowing in on Petan's season. As a one-dimensional offensive force, he's been alright, but not great this year. I see Domi and Fabbri as better options for now. My concern is that if you dress too many of these types, not all of them will score, and since they don't bring much else to the table, that may lead to goals-against.

I think the defense, as long as the WHL guys are all in, will be fine. The goaltending will be alright but I wouldn't automatically default to Fucale, certainly. But to me the concern is getting the right forward mix in there. They need to complement McDavid well and try to maintain puck possession, play Canada's game, keep egos in check, and keep penalties to a minimum. If they open it up and keep it soft then they are playing right into the hands of their competition.

 

[GuillaumeLetsundress*]

Hey, new to this forum, wanted to find a place to get excited about this great tournament!

Anyways, one thing no one has mentioned...This is on North American Ice...these big Virtanen's and Ritchie's up front...as well as Morin on the back end I don't think is as big of a deal if it was on International Ice...thoughts?

I think it is a double edged sword, yea there wont be much room for opponents to run away from ritchie virtanen and morin we if we take them (virtanen i would say is the only 100% lock) which makes for great entertainment. Then again this is an IIHF event and he have seen that if anything is borderline that they will call it and likely suspend the player; this team is going to be great but not great enough to win games playing men down (5 on 4/3's, short roster due to suspensions)

 

[Dodospice]

Pulling for the local boy Joe Hicketts to have a good camp and contend for a spot on the roster. Definitely on the outside looking in, but that's never stopped him.

Not this year, but next year I'd have him on the team.

 

[86Habs]

The Olympics featured balanced scoring, yes, but also tremendous puck control, great board play and fantastic 2-way play combined with a size advantage. There's nothing wrong with that formula, obviously.

I guess I'm narrowing in on Petan's season. As a one-dimensional offensive force, he's been alright, but not great this year. I see Domi and Fabbri as better options for now. My concern is that if you dress too many of these types, not all of them will score, and since they don't bring much else to the table, that may lead to goals-against.

I think the defense, as long as the WHL guys are all in, will be fine. The goaltending will be alright but I wouldn't automatically default to Fucale, certainly. But to me the concern is getting the right forward mix in there. They need to complement McDavid well and try to maintain puck possession, play Canada's game, keep egos in check, and keep penalties to a minimum. If they open it up and keep it soft then they are playing right into the hands of their competition.

The talent pool for picking the under-20 team is significantly smaller and less developed (obviously) than that for the Olympic roster. Ideally our Junior teams would play with the same style and under the same possession/defensive system as our Olympic team, but that's simply not realistic. The players aren't really at our disposal unfortunately to employ that style, at least not throughout the entire forward group...they don't have the same well-rounded games as players 5 or more years their senior. Not to mention the coaching aspect. Personally I tend to lean toward skill instead of "role" players when building the foundation of the forward group, which is why I'd select Fabbri, Domi and Petan as building blocks if I were picking the team, then fill in the holes with players who can fill a need, whether it be handedness, PKing ability, faceoff ability, size/strength, speed, etc. The strengths and weaknesses of the Junior team are different every year, making it difficult to lay out a "one size fits all" template. This year it seems like its important to get some size mixed in at the depth positions, so Virtanen (likely a lock), Ritchie (probably also a lock), Gauthier, and Paul will get pretty long looks at camp.

 

[TOML]

The talent pool for picking the under-20 team is significantly smaller and less developed (obviously) than that for the Olympic roster. Ideally our Junior teams would play with the same style and under the same possession/defensive system as our Olympic team, but that's simply not realistic. The players aren't really at our disposal unfortunately to employ that style, at least not throughout the entire forward group...they don't have the same well-rounded games as players 5 or more years their senior. Not to mention the coaching aspect. Personally I tend to lean toward skill instead of "role" players when building the foundation of the forward group, which is why I'd select Fabbri, Domi and Petan as building blocks if I were picking the team, then fill in the holes with players who can fill a need, whether it be handedness, PKing ability, faceoff ability, size/strength, speed, etc. The strengths and weaknesses of the Junior team are different every year, making it difficult to lay out a "one size fits all" template. This year it seems like its important to get some size mixed in at the depth positions, so Virtanen (likely a lock), Ritchie (probably also a lock), Gauthier, and Paul will get pretty long looks at camp.

Fair enough. Just not seeing Petan as a building block this year.

(He has been a bit off this year since this...)


Personally I would keep Ritchie on the shelf because he's fairly unpredictable and may cost the team in terms of penalties etc.

I guess we'll know what other role players will be available later on. I don't think Horvat and Lazar are coming, but we'll see.

 

[86Habs]

Fair enough. Just not seeing Petan as a building block this year.

Personally I would keep Ritchie on the shelf because he's fairly unpredictable and may cost the team in terms of penalties etc.

I guess we'll know what other role players will be available later on. I don't think Horvat and Lazar are coming, but we'll see.

Yes, getting Horvat and/or Lazar will make some of the potential holes on this team go away, but like you said we'll have to wait and see. I'm leaning towards a "no" in both cases at the moment.

I'm not high on Ritchie either, TBH. I believe it's likely he'll make the team (I'll be surprised if he didn't), but I could go either way on him. I was looking forward to watching him live in Ottawa a few weeks back, then he and a few of his buddies went a threw eggs at someone's car...pretty juvenile.

With Petan, I'll admit I wasn't impressed with his play at the WJHCs last year. I honestly don't see enough of him to comment on his overall consistency/performance so far this season, but strangely enough C isn't our deepest position this year. We do, however, have some very strong wingers (Duclair, Dal Colle, Virtanen, Domi, Baptiste, Ritchie, Fabbri if converted), and I believe Petan, an elite playmaker at this level of competition, would be able to get a lot out of whichever wingers end up on his line and take advantage of some pretty favourable line matchups.

 

[Ho Borvat]

You can't base everything on points, Horvat plays a solid game for Vancouver. He's great on faceoffs, and adds an important element to our roster. His intangibles have helped the Canucks.

Also it seems like you're basing your opinion on a 1 game sample size, which is laughable.

Wow is this way off base and a bad way to judge horvat.

Still, 1 point in his last 8 isn't all that fantastic.

He has been below 50% on draws 6/8 of the last games. And I don't know if 160 faceoffs is enough of a sample to say he is great. Hes averaging 10 faceoffs a game... so every 5 games he wins an extra 3 faceoffs than a guy who is 50%.

What kind of intangibles does he bring? Im kind of curious about this.
Bottom 5 in the league in Corsi For/60, Corsi Against/60 and CF% despite being relatively sheltered.

This isn't me trying to bash Horvat, but objectively he is a replacement level NHL player at this point and if everyone is healthy, one of his/Vey/Kassian sits.


I just think (unless he turns it on these next few games) its in everyones best interest (Fans, Bo, the Team) to release him to the WJC.

 

[Ho Borvat]

Yes, getting Horvat and/or Lazar will make some of the potential holes on this team go away, but like you said we'll have to wait and see. I'm leaning towards a "no" in both cases at the moment.

I think if Vancouver stays healthy, they will release Horvat.

Kassian should be back from a finger injury, Matthias is back, Sestito is doing a conditioning stint and should be back to being the 13th forward soon (I would think)

Sedin Sedin Vrbata
Higgins Bonino Burrows
Matthias Richardson Kassian
Hansen Horvat Dorsett

/Vey + Sestito

I would just bump Richardson down to line 4, and put Vey into 3C and release Horvat to WJC.

Matthias Vey Kassian
Hansen Richardson Dorsett
/Sestito + Callup

 

[TOML]

There's a reason why Horvat made the Canucks in the first place. Vey isn't a center at all, let lone a 3C.

 

[Ho Borvat]

There's a reason why Horvat made the Canucks in the first place. Vey isn't a center at all, let lone a 3C.

Then move Vey to the wing, and have Matthias play center (Its really just a suggested lineup).

The point is, the argument for not releasing Horvat is because he makes your NHL team better. At this point, I don't think he is playing above replacement level.

Assuming everyone is healthy, one of Kassian/Vey/Horvat is going to end up as a healthy scratch which is not an ideal situation for the Canucks.

I think (unless he is a beast the next few games) its in everyones best interest to let him play in the WJC.

 

[TOML]

Then move Vey to the wing, and have Matthias play center (Its really just a suggested lineup).

The point is, the argument for not releasing Horvat is because he makes your NHL team better. At this point, I don't think he is playing above replacement level.

Assuming everyone is healthy, one of Kassian/Vey/Horvat is going to end up as a healthy scratch which is not an ideal situation for the Canucks.

I think (unless he is a beast the next few games) its in everyones best interest to let him play in the WJC.

Matthias for some reason isn't being played as a center there though. Meanwhile, the Canucks aren't that deep. That's why they're dressing Horvat, and having an extra player around while not having to play Sestito is probably a good thing. Last year Sestito was a 2nd liner at times for them and they finished 6th-last.

I don't think Horvat gets all this kickass time in the WJHC anyway.

 

[Ho Borvat]

Matthias for some reason isn't being played as a center there though. Meanwhile, the Canucks aren't that deep. That's why they're dressing Horvat, and having an extra player around while not having to play Sestito is probably a good thing. Last year Sestito was a 2nd liner at times for them and they finished 6th-last.

I don't think Horvat gets all this kickass time in the WJHC anyway.

I think a lot of it will depend what kind of role hockey canada will give Bo as well. I am sure if the Canucks are promised that Bo will be given plenty of minutes/responsibility they would be more willing to let him go.

Obviously I don't want Sestito in the lineup, but I would have to think that based off of the last few games Horvat is the most likely one to be healthy scratched.
*Horvat and Sestito in the press box

 

[DanrikCarter]

Fabbri - McDavid - Virtanen
Dal Colle - Reinhart - Duclair
Domi - Horvat - Lazar
Ritchie - Petan - Baptiste
Dickenson

Morrissey - Bowey
Nurse - Theodore
Morin - Hicketts
Fleury

Fucale
Comrie

I think that team is very close to what we will see.

 

[GuillaumeLetsundress*]

Bob Mack claims TB is not sending Drouin. I figured they would at least wait and see where he is at come the deadline but I assume they have a plan for him in Tampa, never a bad choice but a little disappointing as a big fan of this tournament

 

[JayKing]

Fabbri - McDavid - Duclair
Dal Colle - Reinhart - Virtanen
Domi - Petan - Ritchie
Elie - Gauthier - Baptiste
Chartier

Morrissey - Nurse
Morin - Bowey
Fleury - Theodore
Hicketts.

Fucale
Comrie