2014 Olympics Thread (2/12-2/23)

[NotWendell]

The question is why did his play fall off so badly this year. Is it just a slump or are things happening behind the scenes that have disrupted his play?

I would say the change in venue provided a bump in his play last year - much like a "new coach bump" for a team.

Still sad to see a guy go from Captain of Team USA, to being considered not good enough to be captain of his own club, to no longer being on Team USA. The good news is I wouldn't bet against JMFJ in changing that trajectory.

 

[EspenK]

I'm still cheering for USA. And in all honestly, Orpik and to a lesser extent Martin are the only "WTF?" selections.

But reading that MFRONE article made me less confident.


Were they picking a hockey team or interpreting each others' dreams?

I was a bit confused after reading that article as well. I just don't understand their goalie logic. Howard is not currently the 3rd best USA goalie. And Brooks Oprik? And the dream thing? And no Bobby Ryan? And Derek Stepan and Ryan Callahan? Clearly based on a lot more than current season performance.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

JJ should be in over Orpik. His chemistry with Martin is the only reason he's there, but he's going to get walked around on the big ice.

 

[NotWendell]

After reading that ESPN piece - once of the very few excellent pieces they've had on hockey in recent memory - I'm gonna make a prediction right now.

Jack Johnson is going to see this piece and learn even more from Coach Richards. He's gonna get pissed. He's gonna "get his s--- together" and improve his play. There WILL be an injury to the USA blue line before Sochi. Jack Johnson will get the call and people will wonder why he was ever dropped from "The Board" in the first place.

That's not rose-colored glasses or homerism. That's just what I've come to expect from Johnson.

Now I DO wonder if not being named captain of the CBJ has hurt his confidence?!?

 

[stevo61]

After reading that ESPN piece - once of the very few excellent pieces they've had on hockey in recent memory - I'm gonna make a prediction right now.

Jack Johnson is going to see this piece and learn even more from Coach Richards. He's gonna get pissed. He's gonna "get his s--- together" and improve his play. There WILL be an injury to the USA blue line before Sochi. Jack Johnson will get the call and people will wonder why he was ever dropped from "The Board" in the first place.

That's not rose-colored glasses or homerism. That's just what I've come to expect from Johnson.

Now I DO wonder if not being named captain of the CBJ has hurt his confidence?!?

Confidence or ego? I am hoping he takes it as a kick in the ass and work on his weaknesses because the tools are definetly there. Im also hoping its not something he sulks about and dwells on

 

[Mayor Bee]

JJ should be in over Orpik. His chemistry with Martin is the only reason he's there, but he's going to get walked around on the big ice.

My thoughts exactly.

I remember the 1998 Olympics being the first to feature NHL stars. Canada put together a "traditional" lineup, with two scoring lines, plus a checking and an energy line. Players slated for the latter roles were Rob Zamuner, Shayne Corson, Trevor Linden, Rod Brind'Amour, Keith Primeau, and Theo Fleury. The seventh defenseman was Adam Foote. The common theme with the players listed here is that they weren't exactly noted for their swiftness and agility. Foote had the speed of continental drift, and was being asked to play on international ice.

Meanwhile, the Czechs took a decent number of their NHLers, then buttressed the roster with their top domestic players who had been on the big ice all year. The defense was very mobile and fast, if a bit soft.

Canada had no business losing a single game, yet they did. The Czechs, with a mere half of their roster consisting of NHLers, won the gold.

 

[major major]

The question is why did his play fall off so badly this year. Is it just a slump or are things happening behind the scenes that have disrupted his play?

Did his play really fall off so badly this year? In any case I think he's been back to normal since the start of December. Before that his offence was clearly down, and I attribute that to a team game that was leaving little room for creativity or fun before the system was rebooted last month.

Really though, its not much of an injustice to have JJ off team USA. They have so many great players to choose from (maybe not Orpik), why go with a guy who has so many question marks?

 

[major major]

I'm still trying to digest this part:

"I don't want to force a square peg into a round hole here," Poile says in discussing the oft-discussed Columbus defenseman. In fact, he says the coaches indicated they were relieved at the previous management discussions about Jack Johnson and how there was growing consensus his level of play wasn't up to Olympic standards.


And later on:

Poile points out one potential fly in the Johnson ointment, and that's the fact the coaching staff as a whole weren't all that enthused about having him on the team given his uneven play this season.

And this part:

Burke recalls fighting with his scouts in Anaheim over whether to take Bobby Ryan or Jack Johnson at the 2005 draft.

The scouts won and the Ducks took Ryan.

"I should have taken Jack," Burke says. "No way he lets us down for 12 days.

"I know he's having a poor year, but I love everything about this kid."

So Burke goes with Johnson and Fowler as a 1A pick ahead of Yandle.

 

[major major]

I wish there was more written on Dubinsky. It's hard to tell why they didn't take him over guys like Stepan and Stastny.

 

[db2011]

Got to feel for JJ. He had a spot on the team absolutely locked up, especially with his play on the Jackets once he came over from the trade, the world championships, and last years play.

But his play this year hasn't been to that standard and his offensive production has fallen. That and with young players improving around the league, he ruined his own chances. Maybe this will be good for him and he goes back to last years JJ

The question is why did his play fall off so badly this year. Is it just a slump or are things happening behind the scenes that have disrupted his play?

After reading that ESPN piece - once of the very few excellent pieces they've had on hockey in recent memory - I'm gonna make a prediction right now.

Jack Johnson is going to see this piece and learn even more from Coach Richards. He's gonna get pissed. He's gonna "get his s--- together" and improve his play. There WILL be an injury to the USA blue line before Sochi. Jack Johnson will get the call and people will wonder why he was ever dropped from "The Board" in the first place.

That's not rose-colored glasses or homerism. That's just what I've come to expect from Johnson.

Now I DO wonder if not being named captain of the CBJ has hurt his confidence?!?

I'm sorry but you guys are sounding like homers here. Things happening behind the scenes disrupting his play? If that's the case, he needs to step up his professionalism. I liked JJ when he came over last year but this season I see a guy built like a fireplug but who also comes off seeming a bit entitled-feeling. I for one am glad that there is discussion/acknowledgement in the ESPN piece of his poor play this year.

You've got to keep working. If you don't, it's on you. And, if not being named captain of the team affected his confidence, then it was the right call not to do it.

The guy has underperformed this year, and hopefully this snub will clear things up for him.

 

[cbjfaninmo]

You've got to keep working. If you don't, it's on you. And, if not being named captain of the team affected his confidence, then it was the right call not to do it.

The guy has underperformed this year, and hopefully this snub will clear things up for him.

I agree.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I'm sorry but you guys are sounding like homers here. Things happening behind the scenes disrupting his play? If that's the case, he needs to step up his professionalism. I liked JJ when he came over last year but this season I see a guy built like a fireplug but who also comes off seeming a bit entitled-feeling. I for one am glad that there is discussion/acknowledgement in the ESPN piece of his poor play this year.

You've got to keep working. If you don't, it's on you. And, if not being named captain of the team affected his confidence, then it was the right call not to do it.

The guy has underperformed this year, and hopefully this snub will clear things up for him.

I don't think we sound like homers, we all acknowledged that JJ wasn't up to his play as he was last year and the year before. I do think he has been improving since Thanksgiving though.

JJ even acknowledged his season has been up and down. I don't think its a matter of him not working as hard or being hurt that he wasn't named captain, I think its just one of those years. He was pretty bad from after the first 5 games or so to Thanksgiving, but from there he's been better save a game here or there.

 

[EspenK]

I wish there was more written on Dubinsky. It's hard to tell why they didn't take him over guys like Stepan and Stastny.

I think he was never in the discussion because he was never in the mix to begin with. He wasn't invited to the first "camp" in August and got no ink like all the others not invited.

 

[thebus2288*]

Going into the year I thought we'd be seeing Bob, Dubi, AA and maybe Johnson going to Russia. Thought it would be a good experience and their play would pick up this year before and after the tournament. I think only 1 guy out of the 4 really picked up his play for the year with the opportunity to go. And yet he's likely the only 1 not going that deserves to go. I think Dubinsky really got ****ed over. I think the doubts about not making the team or starting have affected JJ and Bob to start the season. The fact that they both essentially "failed" and just having the pressure of trying to make the team now done I think we'll see some improvement. I have a feeling we're gonna see a fired up Brandon Dubinsky for the next little while at least. I HOPE we see the same from Johnson. Hopefully he can just start to play hockey without worrying about making himself look good or bad.

I'm guessing Artem has played well enough still to be going so I'll wait to rant about the Russian Federation. I'm sure at this point its no question Varlamov will be starting most if not all games. I think its no question the Olympics in general and the way Varlamov and the Avs started the season has affected Bob.

 

[Nanabijou]

My thoughts exactly.

I remember the 1998 Olympics being the first to feature NHL stars. Canada put together a "traditional" lineup, with two scoring lines, plus a checking and an energy line. Players slated for the latter roles were Rob Zamuner, Shayne Corson, Trevor Linden, Rod Brind'Amour, Keith Primeau, and Theo Fleury. The seventh defenseman was Adam Foote. The common theme with the players listed here is that they weren't exactly noted for their swiftness and agility. Foote had the speed of continental drift, and was being asked to play on international ice.

Meanwhile, the Czechs took a decent number of their NHLers, then buttressed the roster with their top domestic players who had been on the big ice all year. The defense was very mobile and fast, if a bit soft.

Canada had no business losing a single game, yet they did. The Czechs, with a mere half of their roster consisting of NHLers, won the gold.

I think it's a valid debate whether the 'traditional' lineup model is optimal for international tournaments played on the big ice. However, your analysis of the 1998 tourney omits the biggest factor that separated Canada and the Czechs and that was Dominic Hasek. He played unconscious and he was a bigger reason for the outcome rather than comparing the two teams' defense or 4th lines.

Canada went undefeated before playing Hasek and the Czechs in the semis, and the game basically came down to a coin flip - a 1-1 game that went to a shootout. The Czechs were able to squeeze one past Roy while Canada couldn't beat Hasek. It was an epic goaltending duel that Hasek came out on top. At that level, any team with a hot goalie can beat any other team, particularly in a one-game situation.

 

[Nanabijou]

Did his play really fall off so badly this year? In any case I think he's been back to normal since the start of December. Before that his offence was clearly down, and I attribute that to a team game that was leaving little room for creativity or fun before the system was rebooted last month.

I agree his game is getting closer to where it was the last two years, but yes, I think his play has dropped off pretty badly this year when considering the year so far as a whole. I think the Burnside article validates that analysis - it's made pretty clear that he went from being a lock to being out solely based on the regression of his play this year.

I'm sorry but you guys are sounding like homers here. Things happening behind the scenes disrupting his play? If that's the case, he needs to step up his professionalism. I liked JJ when he came over last year but this season I see a guy built like a fireplug but who also comes off seeming a bit entitled-feeling. I for one am glad that there is discussion/acknowledgement in the ESPN piece of his poor play this year.

I didn't say that it was necessarily due to the captain situation, nor am I defending it as a valid excuse. I'm just curious why he seemed so off at the start of the year - difficulty in maintaining off-season conditioning due to his injury? feeling pressure about it being an Olympic year? difficulty adjusting to the new pairings on D this year? internal conflict in the dressing room?

I'm saying I don't know what was wrong, but it seemed like there was more going on than him just being in a slump to start the season.

 

[blahblah]

I think the US is going to end up regretting a couple of decisions. I don't care if JJ or Dubi made the team, but if you are going to claim the "what have you done for me lately" care I have no idea what Callahan is doing on the team.

There are a couple of other question marks I have, but I'm too bored to look up their previous international play to see if I can find a reason they are on the team.

 

[bizzz*]

JMFJ was improving for a month now while Martin and Callahan haven't played for a month. I guess you better get injured to keep your spot on the Olympics team roster.

 

[Robert]

JJ is having a horrible year, I'm glad the USA passed on him... In the end the USA is in great shape with Miller in net but they are weak at center... This might be Ryan Miller's last hurrah, he needs to play the best of his career..

 

[Palinka]

Very interesting read and you don't often get that much insight into the behind-the-scenes process. It's clear that Burke still holds considerable sway on the overall shaping of the team.

Jack Johnson's roller-coaster ride across the 'selection board' the last few months was particularly interesting. I suspect he will end up going, as a fill-in for an injury.

Were they picking a hockey team or interpreting each others' dreams?

It's completely unrelated to the Olympic team, but this is part of why I always respected Don Boyd. He may have been humorless and a bit of a grouch, but he had no tolerance for wasting time in scouting meetings. And all this stuff about dreams and nightmares just wouldn't fly with him. If a kid could play, he could play. If there were concerns about his poise in a big moment, it would be brought up. If he had unusual game-breaking ability, it would be brought up. But it wouldn't be continually harped on, and certainly anything resembling divination wouldn't fly.

On topic, Brian Burke continues to demonstrate why he's both regarded as a sharp and knowledgeable mind while also being regarded as a clown.

More on topic, Jack Johnson's open ice ability would carry over to the big ice, as has been seen on numerous prior occasions. I seriously question how Brooks Orpik will be able to do the same. It strikes me as a move specifically to check the possibility of playing Canada in the medal round, but if that doesn't happen, it could be disastrous.

 

[major major]

It's completely unrelated to the Olympic team, but this is part of why I always respected Don Boyd. He may have been humorless and a bit of a grouch, but he had no tolerance for wasting time in scouting meetings. And all this stuff about dreams and nightmares just wouldn't fly with him. If a kid could play, he could play. If there were concerns about his poise in a big moment, it would be brought up. If he had unusual game-breaking ability, it would be brought up. But it wouldn't be continually harped on, and certainly anything resembling divination wouldn't fly.

On topic, Brian Burke continues to demonstrate why he's both regarded as a sharp and knowledgeable mind while also being regarded as a clown.

More on topic, Jack Johnson's open ice ability would carry over to the big ice, as has been seen on numerous prior occasions. I seriously question how Brooks Orpik will be able to do the same. It strikes me as a move specifically to check the possibility of playing Canada in the medal round, but if that doesn't happen, it could be disastrous.

I think its fair to guess that Orpik doesn't make the team if Bylsma isn't the coach.

 

[Robert]

I think its fair to guess that Orpik doesn't make the team if Bylsma isn't the coach.

Perhaps, but the team was selected by a board not the head coach... there are few USA players in the league equal to what Orpik brings to the table.

 

[major major]

Perhaps, but the team was selected by a board not the head coach... there are few USA players in the league equal to what Orpik brings to the table.

The coaching staff's input was heavily weighted, they might as well have been on the committee.

 

[Nordique]

Things have been handled very poorly by team USA. JJ and Bobby Ryan both come to mind. Whether these guys are on the squad or not, a little respect from the "leadership" of the program is in order. And Dubinsky seems to never get a look, but I'm probably being a homer so I won't go there.

 

[major major]

Things have been handled very poorly by team USA. JJ and Bobby Ryan both come to mind. Whether these guys are on the squad or not, a little respect from the "leadership" of the program is in order. And Dubinsky seems to never get a look, but I'm probably being a homer so I won't go there.

I think mgmt deserves a break. Anytime there is this much access there is going to be plenty to critique. I don't think they made a mistake with Ryan and maybe not with JJ.