Prospect Info: 2014 NHL Draft Thread (6/27-7PM; 6/28-10AM)
- Thread starter Sore Loser
- Start date
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
Indeed. For guys to find their way into the first round, they really need to have something that separates them from the pack - especially when they are undersized scorers. Take, for instance, Jeff Skinner ... who had more goals than anyone else in his draft year, because of his shot and hockey sense. For guys like Ho-Sang and Ehlers, they are certainly talented, but they don't do enough to separate themselves from the pack.
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
Following the WHL
http://thescoutingreport.org/whl-draft-chips-november-2013
My November report on the top prospects from the WHL, for those interested.
http://thescoutingreport.org/whl-draft-chips-november-2013
My November report on the top prospects from the WHL, for those interested.
AstrophysicalJet
Registered User
I would say both Ho sang and Ehlers seperate themselves from the pack.. Ehlers skating ability alone seperates him from the pack.
Every recent list I have seen, has at least Ehlers as a 1st rounder. Plus it's not like Ehlers shy's away from physical contact, quite the contrary.
And his two-way game is really strong.
I have seen a few lists with Ho-Sang as a 1st rounder but also as a 2nd rounder, so im not in as much of a disagreeance with you there.
In my own most humble opinion though, everything about Ho-sang screams 1st rounder.
Curious to hear your take on why they are not 1st round material to you?
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JacketsFanWest
Registered User
This does seem like a strange draft class with who is or isn't a first rounder. I've seen some say there's a lack of top 6 skilled forwards, yet Ho-Sang is outside the first round on many lists.
I don't get why David Pastrnak is so low on most lists as well. He outplayed William Nylander last year for Södertälje, and is currently the co-leader for Södertälje in scoring (with 14 points in 19 games. He's leading the team in +/-). Södertälje is having an absolutely atrocious season and in last place in Allsvenskan after being one of the top teams last year and they're defensively horrible, so he's not going to get any help by padding his stats playing on a great team. It's rare for there to be a 17 year playing such a major role for a team in Allsvenskan and actually dominating with great puck skills yet he's projected by some to be a 2nd round pick.
It seems like Nylander has more natural skill but is taking some time adjusting to bigger stronger competition. I haven't seen him play much but thats my take as he is a smaller guy. Also yes I know Pastrnak is on the smaller side aswell
. Being Michael's son doesn't hurt but hes where he deserves to be and just needs to bulk up.As for Pastrnak this past draft is a prime example at how differently scouts view players. Kekalainen took a guy I saw as low as 72, 27th overall in Marko Dano. Poirier another one. Once teams get into the middle of the 1st and on it's more a combination of bpa/needs. This draft is gonna be a weird one and all over the place I think
JacketsFanWest
Registered User
David Pastrnak is listed by Elite Prospects as 6'0, 168 lbs. That could be outdated. He's definitely taller than William Nylander but very lanky. Nylander is listed as 5'10, 170 lbs but his dad is 6'0 and he's at least 2-3 inches shorter and maybe only 160 lbs.
Here's a recent off-ice picture of William and Michael and you can see the difference of where William's shoulder is compared to Michael's: http://hd.se/multimedia/dynamic/00907/HAL_Michael_Nylande_907689v530x800.jpg
He looks like he's about 14 so he has a lot of growing and maturing to do. He's just too easily manhandled by the competition and doesn't even try to play physically.
I think the hype of his dad and playing with his dad has gotten Nylander a lot more attention. He's definitely skilled and it's unfair to judge his full game when he's having to play a style that fits his size.
I hate judging youngsters on bad games, but Nylander is having some struggles in MODO and he's up and down in the lineup depending on the competition. Against good teams, he's an extra (13th forward) and against less competitive teams he's played on the 2nd line. But he's been on the ice when MODO has been scored on quite a bit lately.
The Jackets new Euro scout, Josef Boumedienne, played for Södertälje, so he's no doubt aware of Pastrnak. You'd think Södertälje would be well-scouted since it's in Stockholm County but it's a rather distant suburb, but all their junior talent gets poached by the big Stockholm teams, Djurgården and AIK, and there was a general feeling that if a junior was good enough they would be playing for those teams not Södertälje. So players there got overlooked and they tend to recruit players from outside of Sweden like Anze Kopitar. But that's one of the reason so few scouts saw Kopitar playing for Södertälje's J20 team his draft year.
Here's a recent off-ice picture of William and Michael and you can see the difference of where William's shoulder is compared to Michael's: http://hd.se/multimedia/dynamic/00907/HAL_Michael_Nylande_907689v530x800.jpg
He looks like he's about 14 so he has a lot of growing and maturing to do. He's just too easily manhandled by the competition and doesn't even try to play physically.
I think the hype of his dad and playing with his dad has gotten Nylander a lot more attention. He's definitely skilled and it's unfair to judge his full game when he's having to play a style that fits his size.
I hate judging youngsters on bad games, but Nylander is having some struggles in MODO and he's up and down in the lineup depending on the competition. Against good teams, he's an extra (13th forward) and against less competitive teams he's played on the 2nd line. But he's been on the ice when MODO has been scored on quite a bit lately.
The Jackets new Euro scout, Josef Boumedienne, played for Södertälje, so he's no doubt aware of Pastrnak. You'd think Södertälje would be well-scouted since it's in Stockholm County but it's a rather distant suburb, but all their junior talent gets poached by the big Stockholm teams, Djurgården and AIK, and there was a general feeling that if a junior was good enough they would be playing for those teams not Södertälje. So players there got overlooked and they tend to recruit players from outside of Sweden like Anze Kopitar. But that's one of the reason so few scouts saw Kopitar playing for Södertälje's J20 team his draft year.
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Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
I did, up above. There is a lot more to being drafted and playing in the NHL than offensive dominance. We almost saw one of the more offensively gifted players almost fall out of the first round last summer (Hunter Shinkaruk) when he was ranked by many in the top-10 ... and I think his game is miles ahead of both guys. For Ho-Sang, he's listed at 5'11" and 160 pounds ... 27 points in 23 games. Compare that to a guy who went in the second round last year, Nic Petan @ 5'10", 170 pounds, 120 points in 71 games to lead the entire WHL. For Ehlers, he's scoring at a slightly better pace than Ho-Sang, but has similar size ... for all of these players, the commonality is size and other tools. Any NHL team may like what they see and jump on them early ... but it's more likely that you'll see guys like Ryan Hartman go first, who has good offensive potential in his own right, but is a safer bet to get there in the first place because of his intangibles.
Mitch Holmberg has 27 goals and 61 points in 26 games thus far this year ... far outpacing all of those players. Would anyone take him in the first round? Will he even get drafted at all?
It's a somewhat fair comparison. Virtanen is playing behind one of the top power forwards in the league, Brady Brassart ... I won't say that's the key to his lack of output, but it certainly doesn't help. I'd like to see more of him; I think he's definitely capable of 40-50 goals this year ... he just hasn't shown it yet. They are similar players, certainly.
AstrophysicalJet
Registered User
Woaa.. I get the feeling I am offending you? No offense meant, at all.. Just do not agree with you
I know there is a lot more to the NHL than offensive Dominance. I know more about Ehlers, due to my Danish heritage. I have been following him closely, and he does stand out. But I still think, that him being an exceptional skater, sets him apart from the rest.. Kid has crazy fast feet and he is very shifty.
I did say above that he has an impressive 2 way game, which to my knowledge is not offensive prowess. He is +25 for god's sake. He does not play on line with Drouin, only on the PP. So his success is not an offspring of Jo.
Saying Shinkaruk is miles above Ehlers is just, well not very objective. I don't think you know enough of Ehlers, with some of your statements. They don't seem backed up.
As I said, it's not like Ehlers is a Midget, and he definitely does not shy away from physicality.
And please tell me you do not mean to compare Mitch Holmberg?
The guy is 20 and in his 5th season in the W, so ofcourse, HE SHOULD be outpacing both guys!
Ehlers is 17, and in his first season in the Q, and his first season on Small ice.
Ehlers played with men in the NLA at age 16 and did well there too.
I hope im not offending you, I just do not agree
Oh and one last thing.. Which Hartman are you refering too? The one that got drafted this year in round one? Or 2015 eligable Hartman?
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Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
Woaa.. I get the feeling I am offending you? No offense meant, at all.. Just do not agree with you
I know there is a lot more to the NHL than offensive Dominance. I know more about Ehlers, due to my Danish heritage. I have been following him closely, and he does stand out. But I still think, that him being an exceptional skater, sets him apart from the rest.. Kid has crazy fast feet and he is very shifty.
I did say above that he has an impressive 2 way game, which to my knowledge is not offensive prowess. He is +25 for god's sake. He does not play on line with Drouin, only on the PP. So his success is not an offspring of Jo.
Saying Shinkaruk is miles above Ehlers is just, well not very objective. I don't think you know enough of Ehlers, with some of your statements. They don't seem backed up.
As I said, it's not like Ehlers is a Midget, and he definitely does not shy away from physicality.
And please tell me you do not mean to compare Mitch Holmberg?
The guy is 20 and in his 5th season in the W, so ofcourse, HE SHOULD be outpacing both guys!
Ehlers is 17, and in his first season in the Q, and his first season on Small ice.
Ehlers played with men in the NLA at age 16 and did well there too.
I hope im not offending you, I just do not agree
Oh and one last thing.. Which Hartman are you refering too? The one that got drafted this year in round one? Or 2015 eligable Hartman?
Not offended at all, my apologies if it came off that way.
To my original point, Nic Petan was a +68 last year, while scoring at that high pace. The Portland Winterhawks went 57-12-1-2 during last season. Halifax is off to a 21-8 start, one of the top junior teams to start the year. I wouldn't go as far as to say that Petan isn't a good defensive zone player - nor would I say that Ehlers is a poor defensive zone player - but, playing on strong teams never hurts your chances of an inflated plus/minus rating.
Sorry for bouncing around; but my main point is that Ehlers is a comparable player to Nic Petan. Both guys are small, skilled players, who play for very good teams and put up big numbers. That doesn't, necessarily, make them more attractive to an NHL team, who is looking at them only from a perspective of how well they project into a future NHL lineup. I do think Ehlers is a late first/second round potential player ... but I don't see him being a first round pick, based on what I have seen so far.
And no, I wasn't comparing him to Mitch Holmberg ... my point being stats aren't enough to make an argument for or against a player.
InjuredChoker
Registered User
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
Yes, since acquiring Tim Bozon, Kootenay has completed their top line with Bozon, Reinhart, and Deschenau. In 15 games since the deal, Reinhart has 22 points (basically on par with his pace before the deal); but has seen his goal total better than double; including 5 goals in his last two games before the break.
Kootenay paid a hefty price for Bozon ... really ridiculously overpaid for him; but, he seems to be the perfect compliment for that line.
InjuredChoker
Registered User
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
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With playoff hopes running high, I'm pretty sure most here won't care but there is a bit of a shakeup in the Central Scouting prospect rankings. 2 guys jumped ahead of Reinhart & Ekblad.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=699869
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=699869
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
Never been a fan of Central Scouting ... I think it goes without saying that, once the year is over and the draft happens, their lists are the farthest from correct.
EDIT: For example, Conner Bleackley outside of the top-30, while Jake Virtanen is in their top-10. For comparison's sake:
Bleackley (captain for the Red Deer Rebels): 16 goals, 22 assists, 23 PIMs, +6 rating
Virtanen: 17 goals, 9 assists, 33 PIMs, +5 rating
Both guys are right around 6'1" tall, 200 pounds. One of these guys has taken over as the top player for his team ... the other is buried on the depth chart and goes through long stretches of struggling.
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CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
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Ebbisen
Registered User
Sebastian Aho has looked pretty good from the few games i have watched of Skellefteå. And CSS has him as the nr.1 ranked euro D. Could be a great pickup in the mid rounds
Saying that skating is an issue for him destroys all credibility in everyone of your posts. Skating is one of his strengths and he just finished first overall in the skating skills at CHL Prospects.
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
Coming from someone with 73 posts, I'm not concerned about what you're saying. Maybe step out of the shadows and tell us your scouting reports?
People see things differently, from all perspectives. I'm proud to stand up and say things as I see them, and will stand by my comments any day of the week. I was about the only person prior to Emerson Etem's draft saying that his speed was a quality, and not a weakness ... turns out, the folks who thought he couldn't skate noticed a "hitch" in his step, and he wound up being one of the quicker forwards to come out of his draft.
Sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm wrong. But, at least I put it out there. Blasting someone for providing a somewhat professional, unbiased opinion on a player destroys all credibility in anything that you say. Good day.
You are on here representing yourself as a scout of some kind. Yes everyone has their own perspective however when you take a stance on something that is 180 degrees off of reality then you will be put on the hot seat as well as lose credibility.
BTW, I have watched Etem since he was 12 years old; Etem's speed was always one of his biggest assets, he just isn't a smooth skater. Suggesting that you were one of the only ones that that realized his speed an asset is pretty weak.
My post numbers have no relevance, I have been a member here a long time. Good night.
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
Again, try putting yourself out there a little bit like some of us do. I have no problem being criticized for something I say, and as anyone on these boards will tell you, I'm very personable and open to explaining my thoughts and sharing whatever information that I have. For someone with absolutely no prior comments in the thread to drop in and tell me that I have no credibility, is laughable.
I provide my input as a free service, and I do so in a professional, open manner. If you don't like it, that's fine - but please show me the common courtesy of arguing my points in a respectable way. Otherwise, you're going to get the privilege of being ignored. I will gladly debate my notes any day of the week, and have done so on a regular basis. I have other things that I can do with my time, for sure, and I'm sure that the people on here who actually appreciate my input, enjoy what I have to say. It's people like you who ruin a discussion, because you have no common courtesy or respect.
If you want to talk draft prospects with me, that's cool. Otherwise, if you're going to blast my credibility and be an idiot, you're going on ignore.
Again, good day.
