2014-2015 General Wild Discussion Thread IV

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Dr Jan Itor

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Dec 10, 2009
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I would like to know how many of the kids are going to stay and play second fiddle to players like Brodziak or Pominville who are getting 15+ minutes a game without fail when they are not doing anything to win these games. Goes back to the quote from Stoner about how he was not going to resign with the team because he was tired of only playing 10 minutes a night when Suter was getting 30.

Not sure these two should be lumped together...
 

BigT2002

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Dec 6, 2006
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Not sure these two should be lumped together...

Of course they should not be lumped together, but Poms should be playing 3rd line minutes and Brodziak should be playing that 8 minutes a game that Haula had to get. He isn't doing that spectacular on faceoffs this year, which was his only selling point in the last 2 years. Where is the accountability towards them when they make mistakes? Brodziak is the reason Edmonton scored as well. D

12 points versus 38. Pretty similar. They both have even numbers.

Both are divisible by 2!

My first thought - wow, Brodz actually has 12 points?!?

Me too lol.
 

Jarick

Doing Nothing
Here's a fun new tool that projects players vs roles

B8iFoedCYAAeRlW.png:large


I have no consideration in calling Yeo a good coach.

You dare to question the coach of the 25th ranked PP?
 

Dr Jan Itor

Registered User
Dec 10, 2009
46,646
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MinneSNOWta
Of course they should not be lumped together, but Poms should be playing 3rd line minutes and Brodziak should be playing that 8 minutes a game that Haula had to get. He isn't doing that spectacular on faceoffs this year, which was his only selling point in the last 2 years. Where is the accountability towards them when they make mistakes? Brodziak is the reason Edmonton scored as well. D


I think there are aspects of his game that leave a lot to be desired, but he definitely should not be playing 3rd line minutes.
 

ThatGuy22

Registered User
Oct 11, 2011
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I would like to know how many of the kids are going to stay and play second fiddle to players like Brodziak or Pominville who are getting 15+ minutes a game without fail when they are not doing anything to win these games. Goes back to the quote from Stoner about how he was not going to resign with the team because he was tired of only playing 10 minutes a night when Suter was getting 30.

:help: The player leading our team in points is doing nothing to help us win games.
 

Sharppi

4 more years of Dub.
Jul 15, 2011
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Maybe, just maybe Corsi isn't the best thing in the world to evaluate everything? At least in a system that promotes pointless possession near the boards. I know posession > no posession, no need to point that out.
 

AKL

Danila Yurov Fan Club President
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Dec 10, 2012
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Just for fun, Patrick Kane has a similar looking chart as Vanek. Usage adjusted Corsi all look like he's a third liner, but his point per 60 numbers are insane.

So Basically Vanek is pretty much as good as Kane.

Queue the Vanek for Kane threads?
 

ThatGuy22

Registered User
Oct 11, 2011
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Maybe, just maybe Corsi isn't the best thing in the world to evaluate everything? At least in a system that promotes pointless possession near the boards. I know posession > no posession, no need to point that out.

Most people that seriously follow advanced stats already know that. Its not news that Vanek and Kane are poor possession players. You can be a good to great player and be a poor possession player, if you can legitimately score on a high percentage of scoring chances you create.

The problem with those players, is if they do hit an extreme unlucky streak, because they are poor possession players they look like extreme liabilities out there(because they aren't scoring enough to offset the goals against).

That's what's happening with Vanek this year. His game hasn't changed dramatically, but he's shooting 4.5% at 5v5 vs his usual 10-15%.
 

Billy Mays Here*

Guest
I've never understood all the hate Pommers is getting this season. The only place he deserves some criticism is his defensive play. Can't believe some people want to trade him away when he recently signed a nice extension with us after we gave up so much to get him. That, and he's literally the only forward we have that has an effective slap shot.
 

Jarick

Doing Nothing
That's why the chart shows goals and points per 60 minutes.

I mean...if your possession numbers are bad, and your scoring numbers are bad...you're probably not a very good player.

That gets back to the evolution away from "shutdown defenseman" to "puck moving defenseman". We used to look at blocked shots as a good indicator of a strong defender. Turns out a lot of the time those guys couldn't clear the puck, so the other team was just ripping shots all day long against them. Now we don't care about blocked shots so much as shot attempt differential. Are we getting more shots (or shot attempts) than the other team?

So when we look at Nino vs Coyle...

- He's getting more shot attempts offensively
- He's preventing more shot attempts defensively
- He's got a better ratio of shot attempts for/against
- He's scoring more goals
- He's getting fewer assists
- He's scoring slightly more points
- He's getting far more scoring chances

Outside of assists, he's a better player in every sense. But because Mike Yeo has them lumped together, Nino has to sit on the fourth line and wait his turn.
 

Vashanesh

Nope.
Jan 29, 2010
3,154
5
Minnesota
I've never understood all the hate Pommers is getting this season. The only place he deserves some criticism is his defensive play. Can't believe some people want to trade him away when he recently signed a nice extension with us after we gave up so much to get him. That, and he's literally the only forward we have that has an effective slap shot.

I think it was a couple things. First, his usage (like that's his fault), I don't think anyone wants him on the point for the PP. Second, there was a looooooong stretch of time where he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with his shot.

That, and... Really? He's just not a "sexy" player. He doesn't seem to be exceptional at anything, he's just quietly effective in the offensive zone.
 
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