2014-2015 General Wild Discussion Thread IV
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Dr Jan Itor
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Dee Oh Cee
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Of course they should not be lumped together, but Poms should be playing 3rd line minutes and Brodziak should be playing that 8 minutes a game that Haula had to get. He isn't doing that spectacular on faceoffs this year, which was his only selling point in the last 2 years. Where is the accountability towards them when they make mistakes? Brodziak is the reason Edmonton scored as well. D
Both are divisible by 2!
Me too lol.
Jarick
Doing Nothing
Here's a fun new tool that projects players vs roles
You dare to question the coach of the 25th ranked PP?
You dare to question the coach of the 25th ranked PP?
Here's a fun new tool that projects players vs roles
You dare to question the coach of the 25th ranked PP?
So he is playing like a 2nd line player?
Jarick
Doing Nothing
Sure looks that way.
Coyle looks like your average 3rd liner...
Vanek's is just a mystery. Possession wise he seems to be one of the worst in the league, but his production is sky high.
Coyle looks like your average 3rd liner...
Vanek's is just a mystery. Possession wise he seems to be one of the worst in the league, but his production is sky high.
Dr Jan Itor
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I think there are aspects of his game that leave a lot to be desired, but he definitely should not be playing 3rd line minutes.
Jarick
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Dr Jan Itor
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ThatGuy22
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The player leading our team in points is doing nothing to help us win games.
ThatGuy22
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Jarick
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Just for fun, Patrick Kane has a similar looking chart as Vanek. Usage adjusted Corsi all look like he's a third liner, but his point per 60 numbers are insane.
So Basically Vanek is pretty much as good as Kane.
Queue the Vanek for Kane threads?
So Basically Vanek is pretty much as good as Kane.
Queue the Vanek for Kane threads?
ThatGuy22
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Most people that seriously follow advanced stats already know that. Its not news that Vanek and Kane are poor possession players. You can be a good to great player and be a poor possession player, if you can legitimately score on a high percentage of scoring chances you create.
The problem with those players, is if they do hit an extreme unlucky streak, because they are poor possession players they look like extreme liabilities out there(because they aren't scoring enough to offset the goals against).
That's what's happening with Vanek this year. His game hasn't changed dramatically, but he's shooting 4.5% at 5v5 vs his usual 10-15%.
I've never understood all the hate Pommers is getting this season. The only place he deserves some criticism is his defensive play. Can't believe some people want to trade him away when he recently signed a nice extension with us after we gave up so much to get him. That, and he's literally the only forward we have that has an effective slap shot.
Jarick
Doing Nothing
That's why the chart shows goals and points per 60 minutes.
I mean...if your possession numbers are bad, and your scoring numbers are bad...you're probably not a very good player.
That gets back to the evolution away from "shutdown defenseman" to "puck moving defenseman". We used to look at blocked shots as a good indicator of a strong defender. Turns out a lot of the time those guys couldn't clear the puck, so the other team was just ripping shots all day long against them. Now we don't care about blocked shots so much as shot attempt differential. Are we getting more shots (or shot attempts) than the other team?
So when we look at Nino vs Coyle...
- He's getting more shot attempts offensively
- He's preventing more shot attempts defensively
- He's got a better ratio of shot attempts for/against
- He's scoring more goals
- He's getting fewer assists
- He's scoring slightly more points
- He's getting far more scoring chances
Outside of assists, he's a better player in every sense. But because Mike Yeo has them lumped together, Nino has to sit on the fourth line and wait his turn.
I mean...if your possession numbers are bad, and your scoring numbers are bad...you're probably not a very good player.
That gets back to the evolution away from "shutdown defenseman" to "puck moving defenseman". We used to look at blocked shots as a good indicator of a strong defender. Turns out a lot of the time those guys couldn't clear the puck, so the other team was just ripping shots all day long against them. Now we don't care about blocked shots so much as shot attempt differential. Are we getting more shots (or shot attempts) than the other team?
So when we look at Nino vs Coyle...
- He's getting more shot attempts offensively
- He's preventing more shot attempts defensively
- He's got a better ratio of shot attempts for/against
- He's scoring more goals
- He's getting fewer assists
- He's scoring slightly more points
- He's getting far more scoring chances
Outside of assists, he's a better player in every sense. But because Mike Yeo has them lumped together, Nino has to sit on the fourth line and wait his turn.
I think it was a couple things. First, his usage (like that's his fault), I don't think anyone wants him on the point for the PP. Second, there was a looooooong stretch of time where he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with his shot.
That, and... Really? He's just not a "sexy" player. He doesn't seem to be exceptional at anything, he's just quietly effective in the offensive zone.
nickschultzfan
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