Salary Cap: 2014-15 Roster-building Thread XI | All UFA and Trade proposals here | Cap SET: $69M

[Dipsy Doodle]

Really? One of my favorite moments of the Olympics. I felt Crosby passing to himself was pretty symbolic haha

Bad time for a piss break.

 

[penguins2946*]

Well, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised when you see Spaling's cap hit then

Hopefully I'm pleasantly surprised when I see Sutter's as well. I'm hoping for $2.25 million for Spaling (similar to what TK got, but slightly more since he PKs as well) and $2.75 million for Sutter, but I don't see Sutter that low.

 

[Darth Vitale]

So basically this board freaked about not getting an additional 2nd round pick?

Not so much that for my part as, if I'm trading James Neal... I'm not trading him to Nashville, because then your options become very limited. Not exactly an offensive powerhouse, Nashville.

If I'm trading him I'm looking first at teams like Winnipeg, St. Louis, Anaheim, Colorado, maybe even Florida with some of the young studs they have. Nashville is pretty ****in far down the the list there. But within the context of Nashville, yes, we could've at least gotten another asset to help deepen our talent pool. It's not an insignificant thing given this team's weaknesses and the fact that you only get to trade him once.

 

[mpp9]

You think injuries are a separate issue, I think they're the primary cause considering they're the lone identifiable variable. Crosby and Geno have scored 50 goals with virtually the same wingers they had last year, but injuries intervened.

As for acquiring possession wingers, I just want to know where you think I said otherwise.

Maybe Sid and Geno are sick of having to do everything on their own? Sid coming back from injury several times and having to do that is more likely to be a reason why he hasn't produced like he did in 2010.

They've had no one who can lift them up when they're struggling. That is the main concern.

You think Neal helped Geno out. I disagree. He's an elite sniper. But he didn't do anything for Geno when it came to scoring goals that guys like Beau and Kule can't.

 

[66-30-33]

So basically this board freaked about not getting an additional 2nd round pick?

I'm pretty sure people just didn't know nearly enough about PH's game and thought we downgraded badly. It's cool.

I wanted the 11th overall with Hornqvist instead of Spaling.

 

[Darth Vitale]

MOD NOTICE:

These two threads are getting crossed up now (all of us -- not picking on anyone here).

Let's keep the NEAL stuff to the other dedicated Neal thread, please. Stick to "what we do next" in this thread. Thanks!

 

[penguins2946*]

I wanted the 11th overall with Hornqvist instead of Spaling.

With that #11 pick, we would have drafted Kapanen. We still got Kapanen at 22, so I'm fine with it. I wanted Hornqvist and Wilson, we got Hornqvist and Spaling. Any difference between the 2 second pieces would only be a draft pick, which only has like a 10% chance of making a difference.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Hopefully I'm pleasantly surprised when I see Sutter's as well. I'm hoping for $2.25 million for Spaling (similar to what TK got, but slightly more since he PKs as well) and $2.75 million for Sutter, but I don't see Sutter that low.

The only reason to give an RFA a big raise is to buy out UFA years. Spaling won't get 2.25. He will get 1.5, or a bit more if he signs longer than two years. No reason for us to do that at all.

Sutter can elect to be a UFA next summer, if all he does is accept a QO (and choose the 1 year term). So I assume we'll do a "bridge deal" with him to buy some UFA years, which will drive up the cost. So he should come in at around 3.5 x 3. If we are super close to the cap, we can just QO him at 2.7 and then see how things play out, choosing instead to extend Spaling next summer for a similar deal, but in a very different cap environment in 3 years.

The Spaling throw-in seems more and more clever. He erodes Sutter's leverage in any negotiations, which could keep his price down to the low 3's.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Maybe Sid and Geno are sick of having to do everything on their own? Sid coming back from injury several times and having to do that is more likely to be a reason why he hasn't produced like he did in 2010.

So you think it's not the injuries themselves, but the fact that Sid had to come back from injuries to...exactly what he had before that made him sick of his linemates and unable to score?

I dunno man. If you say so. Weird to me that Sid concurrently stopped going to the front of the net after his concussion and Geno stopped regularly ripping one-timers after his shoulder problems though.

They've had no one who can lift them up when they're struggling. That is the main concern.

We aren't on opposite sides on this issue.

You think Neal helped Geno out. I disagree. He's an elite sniper. But he didn't do anything for Geno when it came to scoring goals that guys like Beau and Kule can't.

Whatever you think of his contributions, he was on Geno's line when he scored 50.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Spitballing about Vanek makes me wonder if he isn't who Rutherford's targeting after all. We all just kind of assume it's Kulemin because of his lower price tag and Magnitogorsk connection.

 

[penguins2946*]

The only reason to give an RFA a big raise is to buy out UFA years. Spaling won't get 2.25. He will get 1.5, or a bit more if he signs longer than two years. No reason for us to do that at all.

I asked Predators fans and they said $1.5-$1.75 million for Spaling. I was using Kennedy as a comparable, but his QO was $2 million I believe. That's extremely appealing. Hopefully it's on a 2 year deal worth $1.5 million per. ThirdManIn on the Predators board said the Pens should just offer a 4 year deal worth $1.75 million per, which would be awesome.

Sutter can elect to be a UFA next summer, if all he does is accept a QO (and choose the 1 year term). So I assume we'll do a "bridge deal" with him to buy some UFA years, which will drive up the cost. So he should come in at around 3.5 x 3. If we are super close to the cap, we can just QO him at 2.7 and then see how things play out, choosing instead to extend Spaling next summer for a similar deal, but in a very different cap environment in 3 years.

The Spaling throw-in seems more and more clever. He erodes Sutter's leverage in any negotiations, which could keep his price down to the low 3's.

That's another good point. If Sutter is asking for too much, you can trade him for a winger for Sid (Stewart?) and just play Spaling as the 3C. Actually, I don't know why JR wouldn't consider that. Spaling makes either Dupuis or Sutter expendable, which should make it very easy to fill some of our holes.

Spitballing about Vanek makes me wonder if he isn't who Rutherford's targeting after all. We all just kind of assume it's Kulemin because of his lower price tag and Magnitogorsk connection.

All that was said was that JR had contacted 4 or 5 big name players, and that he would bring in a winger to make Malkin happy. No where does that imply Kulemin, but people like to think that. Kulemin isn't a big name player, and I don't think JR really cares about bringing in friends. Hell, he just traded one of Geno's good friends.

In all honesty, my bet is on Cammalleri. He wants $5 million per on a 5 year deal, which can easily be workable.

 

[Shockmaster]

Spitballing about Vanek makes me wonder if he isn't who Rutherford's targeting after all. We all just kind of assume it's Kulemin because of his lower price tag and Magnitogorsk connection.

That's a pretty good reason given the current cap situation.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Spitballing about Vanek makes me wonder if he isn't who Rutherford's targeting after all. We all just kind of assume it's Kulemin because of his lower price tag and Magnitogorsk connection.

Yah I'm pretty sure Rutherford is unaware of said connection. Don't see how that would be on his radar but maybe it is.

 

[AgentM]

Without moving/buying out Scuds, it doesn't really work.

FORWARDS
Nikolai Kulemin ($2.800m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / Patric Hornqvist ($4.250m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Ales Hemsky ($4.000m)
Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m) / Brandon Sutter ($3.250m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Craig Adams ($0.700m) / Nick Spaling ($1.700m) / Jayson Megna ($0.700m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kris Letang ($7.250m) / Paul Martin ($5.000m)
Rob Scuderi ($3.375m) / Olli Maatta ($0.894m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m) / Simon Despres ($1.200m)
Philip Samuelsson ($0.605m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Jeff Zatkoff ($0.600m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,624,167; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $375,833

I know that you already said that this roster doesn't work because we only have $375k of cap space at a 21 man roster, but I also think you're undershooting what Hemsky and Kulemin will ask for.

Hemsky supposedly was looking for ~$5.5m per season:

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/04/report-hemsky-sens-break-off-contract-talks/

As for Kulemin you've got him at the same salary that he has now. It's probably safe to say that he'll want a raise. Even if its just $500k these additions would push us to $1.625m over the cap before adding the extra forward and defenseman.

I really expect Duper or Bennett to be a top 6 winger this season, especially after Rutherford's latest comments about not needing to shed salary. Maybe he surprises us and moves one of these guys on the 1st, but even if he does we might still not be able to bring in two top 6 guys.

 

[mpp9]

So you think it's not the injuries themselves, but the fact that Sid had to come back from injuries to...exactly what he had before that made him sick of his linemates and unable to score?

I dunno man. If you say so. Weird to me that Sid concurrently stopped going to the front of the net after his concussion and Geno stopped regularly ripping one-timers after his shoulder problems though.

I think Sid is changing his game so he can have a longer career. A 5'11 superstar center should not be scoring most of his goals around the net.

And again, you're ignoring the fact Geno wasn't ripping one timers on the PP in 2012 when he had a monster season.

Assuming it's all due to injury is a bit of a reach. Either way, put them with more talent and let's find out what this team can do.

Whatever you think of his contributions, he was on Geno's line when he scored 50.

So was Kunitz. And so were Malone and Sykora when he scored 47. Neal is hardly a guy Geno needs to be successful. That's the point I'm making. Kulemin is a far superior defensive player and a guy who will work the boards, go to the net and hustle his ass off. And Bennett, despite being less proven, has the type of skillset that will make Geno's line more difficult to defend. He can make things happen on his own. But I think the latter part we're on the same page with. Bennett should be given a shot next year.

 

[Michael8771*]

Spitballing about Vanek makes me wonder if he isn't who Rutherford's targeting after all. We all just kind of assume it's Kulemin because of his lower price tag and Magnitogorsk connection.

According to a couple reporters out there JR has talked with Kulemin directly. I believe he's the guy they're targeting.

 

[mpp9]

Spitballing about Vanek makes me wonder if he isn't who Rutherford's targeting after all. We all just kind of assume it's Kulemin because of his lower price tag and Magnitogorsk connection.

Na. I'd bet serious coin we're not even asking about him. He'll make way too much money. Everything JR has said is having more balance on our roster. And finding the right guys not necessarily stars or ultra expensive guys.

 

[Michael8771*]

I know that you already said that this roster doesn't work because we only have $375k of cap space at a 21 man roster, but I also think you're undershooting what Hemsky and Kulemin will ask for.

Hemsky supposedly was looking for ~$5.5m per season:

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/04/report-hemsky-sens-break-off-contract-talks/

As for Kulemin you've got him at the same salary that he has now. It's probably safe to say that he'll want a raise. Even if its just $500k these additions would push us to $1.625m over the cap before adding the extra forward and defenseman.

I really expect Duper or Bennett to be a top 6 winger this season, especially after Rutherford's latest comments about not needing to shed salary. Maybe he surprises us and moves one of these guys on the 1st, but even if he does we might still not be able to bring in two top 6 guys.

I'm with you AgentM. I would expect Kulemin to get a three or four year deal at 3.3 to 3.5 million per.

 

[Riptide]

Bah, forgot that Vanek's exclusively an LW. You know if Kulemin plays both sides?

He played as a RW when he scored 30. CMac was the LW.

 

[Shockmaster]

I've been interested in the Blackhawks situation. Rumor is they want Stastny, but there's just no way they can afford him under the current cap and considering they still have to sign Toews and Kane to big money long-term deals. Gotta give the Blackhawks credit for winning 2 Cups without really having a legit 2C, but they probably aren't going to be able to get away with that anymore.

I don't know if Sutter will ever be viewed as a 2C. He played that role well in the playoffs when Crosby and Malkin were on the same line, but we don't really know if he can do that long-term. Given the Blackhawks cap situation, a guy like Sutter may be the best they can do though. He may not look so bad between Sharp and Kane. In return, the Blackhawks would send Andrew Shaw ($2mil cap hit) to the Penguins.

Kunitz-Crosby-Hornqvist
Kulemin-Malkin-Bennett
Spaling-Shaw-Dupuis

 

[Michael8771*]

Also, I wouldn't expect to see Adams in the every night line up. Wouldn't surprise me if he's a healthy scratch quite a bit.

We need to upgrade our toughness level as well. Our line up isn''t exactly filled with guys who physically put any fear whatsoever into the opposition. We need that element IMO.

 

[AgentM]

I'm with you AgentM. I would expect Kulemin to get a three or four year deal at 3.3 to 3.5 million per.

That sounds very realistic and could be the best fit for us cap and style wise if we are truly getting tougher to play against.

Does anyone have the Corsi possession numbers for Kulemin and Hemsky? Are they on par with Hornqvist? And are there any 4th liners that will impress JR with their advanced metrics?

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Yah I'm pretty sure Rutherford is unaware of said connection. Don't see how that would be on his radar but maybe it is.

If he was unaware, he is aware now. Someone asked him about bringing in Kulemin during his Fri interview.

Reporter - Have you interviewed anyone (FA's) to play with Malkin?
JR -Yeah
Reporter - Kulemin?
JR - I'm not going to give out any names but we think we're going to get someone who will fit on his line.
http://video.penguins.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=626767&catid=829

 

[AgentM]

Also, I wouldn't expect to see Adams in the every night line up. Wouldn't surprise me if he's a healthy scratch quite a bit.

We need to upgrade our toughness level as well. Our line up isn''t exactly filled with guys who physically put any fear whatsoever into the opposition. We need that element IMO.

I wish we would have sent Adams and a 6th to any other team for a 7th rounder today

 

[DoktorZaius]

Yah I'm pretty sure Rutherford is unaware of said connection. Don't see how that would be on his radar but maybe it is.

I'm sure it was on the radar of the rest of our menagerie of GM's, at the very least.

Plus Paul Maurice, who JR hired and fired twice, coached Geno & Kule in Magnitogorsk, so it's possible he just knows about it all on his own.