Olympics: 2014 — Canada Roster Discussion (Part XVII) (Released, Post 1)

[MessierII]

Really? As I said only a couple, and after that there's hardly a name there that anyone is complaining about being left off Canada. I'd say only Seabrook/Boyle had serious considerations but like I said....the list gets really thin after that. Those players you mentioned are not "should be on team canada" but they are good players though. For forwards, there are at least a dozen "should be on team canada" lol.

Any of those players would be in any other countries top 4. That's pretty stacked.

 

[calvin0416*]

Any of those players would be in any other countries top 4. That's pretty stacked.

As would MacKinnon. That's my point see.

 

[drewstar]

defensemen are an entirely different beast.
it's honestly not even a stacked position, even for Canada.
What big named defenseman have been left off the team this year other than
maybe 1 or 2?

I actually think defense is where we're strongest at relative to the depth available...off the top of my head defensemen on other countries who would warrant strong consideration of making TC if they were Cdn...Ryan Suter, Erik Karlsson, Zdeno Chara.

That's not a whole lot of defensemen.

 

[MessierII]

As would MacKinnon. That's my point see.

I disagree. He wouldn't crack Russia's or swedens top 6 and some other countries would even be debatable. There's young players like Seguin and Hall who are way more deserving than McKinnon anyway.

 

[calvin0416*]

I disagree. He wouldn't crack Russia's or swedens top 6 and some other countries would even be debatable. There's young players like Seguin and Hall who are way more deserving than McKinnon anyway.

Yeah, that's why Nichuskin and Barkov are on their teams at 18 years old because they just soooo much better than MacKinnon.

 

[MessierII]

Yeah, that's why Nichuskin and Barkov are on their teams at 18 years old because they just soooo much better than MacKinnon.

No they're countries just have way less depth.

 

[calvin0416*]

No they're countries just have way less depth.

That's exactly my point. Thank you.

 

[Bullseyes]

Wrong. It's his age. Despite other countries having selected their 18-19 year old rookies to their teams, the biggest reason is not because he's not good enough, but because there are too many players from Canada that have seniority and long-standing pedigree of experience in Stanley Cup playoffs, international play, etc. For Canada, no matter how good an 18 year old is, even if he was scoring 30 goals right now, he'd still not get picked. There is no question that some players have been picked now and in the past purely based on "history" and not current performance.

As I said, he has more goals than a lot of those other players in the running, and he's a better + rating (by a long shot), helped turned the Avs around from being last place in the West last year to 4th-5th place this year. It's a case of where if two players are of similar stats and talent, you go with the guy with experienced veteran over the rookie, plain and simple. It is no knock to him "not being good enough". You'll all eat your words in the next olympics when he gets the call. Bottomline is, Canada is STACKED and is the hardest team to make. If you're 18, even if you are gretzky, they are not going to pick you. You just don't pick an 18 year old while you still have a whole slew of seasoned allstar veterans to choose from.

The funny thing is, no matter how stacked Team Canada gets, they don't win Gold every olympics do they? No. You could stack Team Canada with all the big names, but in the end, the team that wins is not who has the best names on paper, but which team has the best working product on the ice. It's finding the right balance between the different kinds of players and styles, that help to make a team function to its optimal level. Too much of the same big names and talent is actually what prevents a lot of great looking teams from winning it all. That's the biggest problem that Canada always faces. We need the Jamie Benn's and Chris Kunitz's and Bergeron's.....

So more goals and a better plus-minus means he's as good as those players? No, those players are just plain better. He's not making the team because he's not good enough.

Those players made their teams because they have less depth. They wouldn't have made Team Canada either... but not because of their age. There are more deserving players than MacKinnon who didn't make it anyway... Hall, Seguin, Giroux, MSL, etc.

And as others have pointed out, Doughty made it at 19 years old. If your good enough, you have a chance. MacKinnon just isn't good enough.

 

[MessierII]

I actually think defense is where we're strongest at relative to the depth available...off the top of my head defensemen on other countries who would warrant strong consideration of making TC if they were Cdn...Ryan Suter, Erik Karlsson, Zdeno Chara.

That's not a whole lot of defensemen.

I agree. When you look at the other countries our D is ridiculously deep. Comparably deep to our forward group no doubt.

 

[calvin0416*]

So more goals and a better plus-minus means he's as good as those players? No, those players are just plain better. He's not making the team because he's not good enough.

Those players made their teams because they have less depth. They wouldn't have made Team Canada either... but not because of their age. There are more deserving players than MacKinnon who didn't make it anyway... Hall, Seguin, Giroux, MSL, etc.

And as others have pointed out, Doughty made it at 19 years old. If your good enough, you have a chance. MacKinnon just isn't good enough.

Wrong again.

It's about depth of a team's pool to choose from. NOT if someone is good or not good enough to make it. MacKinnon is having a way better season than Barkov and Nichuskin, but since they are on countries that don't have a plethora of seasoned allstar veterans to choose from as Canada does, they make it. You can't say MacKinnon isn't good enough to make it. He can easily play in this tourny, but Canada has too much depth that even guys ahead of him in seniority and experience didn't get picked. It has nothing to do with not being good enough. That means that Giroux, St. Louis, Seguin, Neal, Thornton, Hall, are all not good enough to play?

You're both making the mistake of discrediting the "ability" of player to play on TC versus the "depth" of the pool of players a country has to choose from. Not making the team or not being considered does not equate to "not good enough" LOL. Just trying to clarify that up for you.

 

[leafsfuture]

Mackinnon would probably make every other national team except maybe Sweden.

He definitely makes Russia and Finland. With his skating and shot

 

[calvin0416*]

And according to both (Mess, Bulls) your logic, then Canada should win gold and countries like Russia or Finland and even Sweden should not win gold since Canada apparently has the best players in the world. If a team that has Barkov or Nichuskin or some other 19 year old kid wins the gold, you'll be eating a lot of crow. I hope Canada wins gold, but if they don't, yeah, I'll be back to tell you, "I told you so."

 

[Bullseyes]

Wrong again.

It's about depth of a team's pool to choose from. NOT if someone is good or not good enough to make it. MacKinnon is having a way better season than Barkov and Nichuskin, but since they are on countries that don't have a plethora of seasoned allstar veterans to choose from as Canada does, they make it. You can't say MacKinnon isn't good enough to make it. He can easily play in this tourny, but Canada has too much depth that even guys ahead of him in seniority and experience didn't get picked. It has nothing to do with not being good enough. That means that Giroux, St. Louis, Seguin, Neal, Thornton, Hall, are all not good enough to play?

You're both making the mistake of discrediting the "ability" of player to play on TC versus the "depth" of the pool of players a country has to choose from. Not making the team or not being considered does not equate to "not good enough" LOL. Just trying to clarify that up for you.

MacKinnon isn't as good as any of the players you listed. He's playing very good for a rookie. But there are many better Canadian players than him right now. I'm not sure what your really arguing to be honest. His age isn't why he didn't make it. He's not as good or better than any player on the roster or many players who didn't make it.

And according to both (Mess, Bulls) your logic, then Canada should win gold and countries like Russia or Finland and even Sweden should not win gold since Canada apparently has the best players in the world. If a team that has Barkov or Nichuskin or some other 19 year old kid wins the gold, you'll be eating a lot of crow. I hope Canada wins gold, but if they don't, yeah, I'll be back to tell you, "I told you so."

Anything can happen... best team doesn't always win.

 

[MessierII]

And according to both (Mess, Bulls) your logic, then Canada should win gold and countries like Russia or Finland and even Sweden should not win gold since Canada apparently has the best players in the world. If a team that has Barkov or Nichuskin or some other 19 year old kid wins the gold, you'll be eating a lot of crow. I hope Canada wins gold, but if they don't, yeah, I'll be back to tell you, "I told you so."

The best team on paper doesn't always win. This happens in every sport. Canada does have the best team on paper every time that doesn't guarantee anything.

Are you trying to argue McKinnon deserves a spot over a plethora of players who are playing better than him?

 

[FXBrassard]

We have to give Crosby some firepower. I don't want him centering Kunitz and Carter, who are basically 4th line caliber player on this team. Here's my suggestion:

Kunitz-Crosby-Tavares
Duchene-Getzlaf-Perry
Sharp-Toews-Nash
Benn-Giroux-Carter
Bergeron, Marleau

You put out that 4th line against other teams weakest lines and it would be deadly. Giroux with two speedy wingers that can score and are physical is a match made in heaven.

Unfortunately this won't happen, and I fully expect Crosby to play with Kunitz and Carter, who are probably the two weakest wingers on the team. It's incredibly stupid.

 

[Suter to MacInnis]

Hamhuis's agent was doing some damage control today but I've heard a rumor he has a concussion. You can see hm get hit in the head at 4:12.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5wjEIvkGtgo

Even if it's a minor one those injuries can be really unpredictable. Hopefully for him it's a two dayer and he's able to go still.

 

[jjyay]

And according to both (Mess, Bulls) your logic, then Canada should win gold and countries like Russia or Finland and even Sweden should not win gold since Canada apparently has the best players in the world. If a team that has Barkov or Nichuskin or some other 19 year old kid wins the gold, you'll be eating a lot of crow. I hope Canada wins gold, but if they don't, yeah, I'll be back to tell you, "I told you so."

What are you even arguing? That if Canada loses, it's because they didn't take MacKinnon?

I think the comment was that he (MacKinnon) wouldn't make Russia or Sweden's top 6, and I think that's pretty safe to say. Nichushkin is likely not in Russia's top 6 either. Does it matter if MacKinnon is good enough to make the Finnish team?

Saying he's not good enough for Canada this year is not an insult, he's only been in the league for 4 months after all.

 

[Canuck21t]

We have to give Crosby some firepower. I don't want him centering Kunitz and Carter, who are basically 4th line caliber player on this team. Here's my suggestion:

Kunitz-Crosby-Tavares
Duchene-Getzlaf-Perry
Sharp-Toews-Nash
Benn-Giroux-Carter
Bergeron, Marleau

You put out that 4th line against other teams weakest lines and it would be deadly. Giroux with two speedy wingers that can score and are physical is a match made in heaven.

Unfortunately this won't happen, and I fully expect Crosby to play with Kunitz and Carter, who are probably the two weakest wingers on the team. It's incredibly stupid.

Jeff Carter a 4th line caliber player?!? I think you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[thadd]

Kunitz - Crosby - Nash << Dont' want to see either of these wingers on this team but that's the way it's gotta go if they're going to bring Kuntiz on because of chemistry. Give him a goal scorer who's produced with him in the past.

Tavares - Toews - Sharp - Great 2-way line. This might be the third line.

Hall - Getzlaf - Perry - This might be the best line. Offence, speed and toughness.

Benn--Bergeron --Carter -- Another good checking line with good offensive upside.

 

[biturbo19]

Giroux has to be the replacement. St.Louis makes for a great story and a fun narrative for the media, but i couldn't care less about selecting a team with the fairy tale player who made it big! I want the best player there for this team, i want them to win. And the best player is Claude Giroux. He's the best fit for what this team needs.

We're talking about a guy who was seen as a virtual "lock" to make the team prior to starting off this season a bit slow following a bizarre golf accident. Since he's got himself back up to speed and been healthy...he's been very very good. And he brings a RH shot, more versatility in being able to play multiple positions in different roles, kill penalties, whatever it is that's needed, and though he's not a "big player", he brings more reasonable size to the lineup as well. And on top of that...the mobility to get around the big ice more effectively than St.Louis.

It sucks for Marty, but just like the other Marty...it's time for the next wave to go at this one.

 

[thadd]

Hamhuis's agent was doing some damage control today but I've heard a rumor he has a concussion. You can see hm get hit in the head at 4:12.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5wjEIvkGtgo

Even if it's a minor one those injuries can be really unpredictable. Hopefully for him it's a two dayer and he's able to go still.

Are you referring to the contact that his teammate made with him after Lack made the save? If that's a concussion... man... hockey players are in trouble. That would be the slightest bump I'd ever see cause a concussion.

 

[KPower]

Giroux has to be the replacement. St.Louis makes for a great story and a fun narrative for the media, but i couldn't care less about selecting a team with the fairy tale player who made it big! I want the best player there for this team, i want them to win. And the best player is Claude Giroux. He's the best fit for what this team needs.

We're talking about a guy who was seen as a virtual "lock" to make the team prior to starting off this season a bit slow following a bizarre golf accident. Since he's got himself back up to speed and been healthy...he's been very very good. And he brings a RH shot, more versatility in being able to play multiple positions in different roles, kill penalties, whatever it is that's needed, and though he's not a "big player", he brings more reasonable size to the lineup as well. And on top of that...the mobility to get around the big ice more effectively than St.Louis.

It sucks for Marty, but just like the other Marty...it's time for the next wave to go at this one.

I agree.

Giroux is a better player and a good fit for this team.

My heart still wants Marty though, call me sentimental but after watching him close to tears after not getting picked nobody wants to be there more than him IMO .

 

[Zusammenhalt]

Hamhuis's agent was doing some damage control today but I've heard a rumor he has a concussion. You can see hm get hit in the head at 4:12.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5wjEIvkGtgo

Even if it's a minor one those injuries can be really unpredictable. Hopefully for him it's a two dayer and he's able to go still.

Hopefully Hamhuis will be fine. If not... who would replace him?

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/...+Chris+Higgins+Bruins+test/9469016/story.html

 

[1Gold Standard]

Hopefully Hamhuis will be fine. If not... who would replace him?

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/...+Chris+Higgins+Bruins+test/9469016/story.html

Babcock and the coaching staff are glued to the idea of 4 lefties/4 righties. thus a left handed d-man would replace him. That would be Mark Giordano. Although I think Seabrook is the better choice...but Seabrook is right-handed. It would be another mistake by Team Canada added on to about 2-3 other mistakes they made with the roster.

 

[Zusammenhalt]

Are you referring to the contact that his teammate made with him after Lack made the save? If that's a concussion... man... hockey players are in trouble. That would be the slightest bump I'd ever see cause a concussion.

http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2011/...vershadows-canucks-franchise-record-50th-win/

Hamhuis has had concussions in the past. They are cumulative and must be taken seriously. I hope that this concussion is nothing serious.

http://dvbic.dcoe.mil/about-traumatic-brain-injury/article/cumulative-concussions
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/256518.php