Speculation: 2013 Offseason Thread Part III: Free Agents Suck

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

I hope Kreider gets more consideration with a new HC. I really do. But even if Kreider does play better, having him on our third-line isn't the end of the world.





Really hoping both Lindberg and Miller can make a impact on our team next year.



You're underestimating Hagelin quite a bit imo.

no im not. I REALLY like Hags , he is very good at everything other than finishing. that's his only downfall imo

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

Boom, I don't see anyone saying trading MDZ for a forward is going to make this team #1 in the NHL offensively. Stop with the exaggerations.

Did I say #1 team in the NHL? Nope.

Moving into the future, the Rangers will need help offensively. Good young forwards seem to be hard to come by for this organization and they can't pay McDonagh, Staal and MDZ to all play on the left-side. That is too much money tied up in the same position.

That's because we haven't been drafting forwards with our picks. It's been dmen, dmen, dmen. The few forwards we have invest high picks on? 1 died. The other was a bust. The other, is still a work in progress.

Trading MDZ for a forward does nothing for the Right depth on our blue-line so I fail to see how moving him for a forward is supposed to solidify a very important hole in our line-up.

Neither Staal, nor MDZ have proven they can play successfully on the right side.

So trade one of them for a winger... Now we still have that hole, plus one less dmen. The only dmen who has 40 point potential.

It just so happens that with Richards future buyout, they need a C or LW as they are weak at both. RW seems to be a strength moving forward. So is defense.

Hagelin
Nash
Kreider
Zucca

Players that can play on the LW.

I would be fine moving Staal if the return is where it should be for a player of his caliber.

Ryder is interesting, but he is terrible defensively.

The main reason I have been switching Hagelin and Kreider is because the Krieder-Miller-Zuccarello line would be one of the worst lines defensively in the NHL.

I just see some problems with the team as constructed that wouldn't be that difficult to fix IF they can retool the bottom-6 but they need to decide what type of team they want to be. Speed? Aggressiveness? Skill? Puck control?

Why not a little bit of everything? Why do we have to be 1 type of team?

Malkin is so much better than most players in the league, I feel you have to get him when you have the chance (which the Rangers might nor have via trade anyway).

Not to mention you would have Malkin for next season if you traded for him. Something that I think would send the message to Lundqvist, loud and clear, that the Rangers are serious about winning a Cup.

I just worry about blowing the team up. For any player. Especially one that's only signed for 1 more season. I'm confident we will be able to retain him, and confident we will address our depth, but I'd rather bank on signing him as an UFA instead of moving assets for him.

I recall some guys here suggesting we should move guys for Richards during the deadline when he was in Dallas. Thank god we didn't do that.

Pitt would ask for Stepan + McDonagh +

Willing to give that up?

Cost controlled, very good players.

I wouldn't. But to each his own.

At the end of the day though, is the difference between Stepan and Malkin, McDonagh? I think so. It's a tough call, that's for sure.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

no im not. I REALLY like Hags , he is very good at everything other than finishing. that's his only downfall imo

24 goals in 112 NHL games as a freshman+sophomore isn't exactly abysmal. He's not a finisher, but he's better offensively than you give him credit for.

Besides, on a line with Nash, you want someone like Hagelin who will create room for him and do a lot of the dirty work. If Hagelin was more gifted offensively, it almost wouldn't be fair to the rest of the NHL.

 

[Fitzy]

I think it would take both Stepan and McDonagh. It's a 26 year old Hart Trophy, Conn Smythe winner.

But with this team's depth, I don't think we can make that kind of a deal.

 

[NYR Viper]

Did I say #1 team in the NHL? Nope.

You said people were saying it would make this team a powerhouse offensively. No one said that.

That's because we haven't been drafting forwards with our picks. It's been dmen, dmen, dmen. The few forwards we have invest high picks on? 1 died. The other was a bust. The other, is still a work in progress.

Trading MDZ for a forward does nothing for the Right depth on our blue-line so I fail to see how moving him for a forward is supposed to solidify a very important hole in our line-up.

Yes, they have been drafting d-men. That's because they seem to be able to pull out good young d-men pretty easily as a lot of teams aren't willing to be patient with them. It takes them longer to develop and they aren't as "sexy" because it takes them until 21-22 to make the NHL.

However, once they hit the NHL and prove their skills, their value goes very high, very quickly.

Get a forward + a RD? If not, then why can't they sign a RD like Scuderi?

So trade one of them for a winger... Now we still have that hole, plus one less dmen. The only dmen who has 40 point potential.



Hagelin
Nash
Kreider
Zucca

Players that can play on the LW.



Why not a little bit of everything? Why do we have to be 1 type of team?

McDonagh has 40 point potential. So does Moore. The difference is, they project/are good 2-way d-men who can skate and join the rush effectively.

Certain teams are better at developing certain types of players. When they feel comfortable with what they have, they can trade from a position of strength to fill an area of need.

Nash is a RW. If he was LW, why wouldn't they have just moved Nash to the left and allowed Gaborik to play on the RW?

Identity. What are they? Good teams have something to rest their hat on.

 

[mas0764]

Moore + Miller would be my best offer for Malkin. They are not trading him within the division anyway. wait for him to hit FA.

That is such a bad offer you shouldn't even pick up the phone to make it.

Though I tend to agree with you, the Rangers should probably not gut their team for Malkin. If you could get him for a package similar to what you gave up for Nash, that is one thing, but anything like that which also had to include Stepan/McDonagh would not be worth it.

My best offer would probably be something like Del Zotto/Kreider/Prospect/1st.

 

[GAGLine]

Leafs added JVR and Kadri broke out.

Is Carlyle the reason Kadri broke out? He didn't do much under Wilson. Phaneuf had a career year. Franson had a career year. Reimer had a career year. Do you think they would have been as successful under Ron Wilson?

No team goes into a new season without making SOME personnel changes. It's inevitable. What can and cannot be attributed to the coach/system is debatable and ultimately impossible to gauge. But to think that it has NOTHING to do with it is foolish.

 

[Kwayry]

That is such a bad offer you shouldn't even pick up the phone to make it.

Though I tend to agree with you, the Rangers should probably not gut their team for Malkin. If you could get him for a package similar to what you gave up for Nash, that is one thing, but anything like that which also had to include Stepan/McDonagh would not be worth it.

I agree and that's my intent. i will not help the Pens get a better deal from another team by bidding up.
They are not trading him to us anyway.

One a totally separate subject, we heard a lot about Sather being in on Staal before he got traded by the Pens, do we know what was the offer?

 

[Fitzy]

It wouldn't be nearly the same. Nash never won a Hart, never even sniffed 100 points, and he only wanted to be dealt here.

Malkin would have the whole league bidding on him.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

24 goals in 112 NHL games as a freshman+sophomore isn't exactly abysmal. He's not a finisher, but he's better offensively than you give him credit for.

Besides, on a line with Nash, you want someone like Hagelin who will create room for him and do a lot of the dirty work. If Hagelin was more gifted offensively, it almost wouldn't be fair to the rest of the NHL.

with Nash and Stepan, fine.. I was talking about the "kids" line.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

You said people were saying it would make this team a powerhouse offensively. No one said that.




Yes, they have been drafting d-men. That's because they seem to be able to pull out good young d-men pretty easily as a lot of teams aren't willing to be patient with them. It takes them longer to develop and they aren't as "sexy" because it takes them until 21-22 to make the NHL.

However, once they hit the NHL and prove their skills, their value goes very high, very quickly.

Get a forward + a RD? If not, then why can't they sign a RD like Scuderi?




McDonagh has 40 point potential. So does Moore. The difference is, they project/are good 2-way d-men who can skate and join the rush effectively.

Certain teams are better at developing certain types of players. When they feel comfortable with what they have, they can trade from a position of strength to fill an area of need.

Nash is a RW. If he was LW, why wouldn't they have just moved Nash to the left and allowed Gaborik to play on the RW?

Identity. What are they? Good teams have something to rest their hat on.

because Torts is an egotistical moron? Nash played LW the majority of his CBJ days

 

[cacchioli22]

people dont understand that we cant sign clowe. loved what he brought but no speed, too much money, and 2nd rd pick = NO.
would do dz for burmi + stuart
kreider stepan nash
zucc brassard cally
hagelin burmistrov miller
nystrom boyle dorsett
mcd g
staal stralman
moore stuart
mac will require 5mil and i like miller on rw, nystrom brings speed. trade powe pyatt for late picks

 

[Bluenote13]

One a totally separate subject, we heard a lot about Sather being in on Staal before he got traded by the Pens, do we know what was the offer?

There was no way, NO WAY, they were trading Jordan Staal within the division unless the return was an overpayment they couldn't say no to.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

people dont understand that we cant sign clowe. loved what he brought but no speed, too much money, and 2nd rd pick = NO.
would do dz for burmi + stuart
kreider stepan nash
zucc brassard cally
hagelin burmistrov miller
nystrom boyle dorsett
mcd g
staal stralman
moore stuart
mac will require 5mil and i like miller on rw, nystrom brings speed. trade powe pyatt for late picks

Sather won't pay him more than Staal

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

You said people were saying it would make this team a powerhouse offensively. No one said that.

We both exaggerated a bit to prove our points.

Yes, they have been drafting d-men. That's because they seem to be able to pull out good young d-men pretty easily as a lot of teams aren't willing to be patient with them. It takes them longer to develop and they aren't as "sexy" because it takes them until 21-22 to make the NHL.

What's the point of using a high pick to draft a dmen. Taking the time to develop him. And then moving him? Seems very counterproductive to me.

However, once they hit the NHL and prove their skills, their value goes very high, very quickly.

Is that why we should move MDZ?

McDonagh has 40 point potential. So does Moore. The difference is, they project/are good 2-way d-men who can skate and join the rush effectively.

Difference with Moore and McDonagh, is they haven't hit 40 points in their careers. I would LOVE to see McD get some PP time, but anyone who's watched hockey for some time can easily identify there are dramatic differences between MDZ and McD when it comes to their offensive capabilities. Neither Moore or McD would replicate what MDZ is capable of.

Certain teams are better at developing certain types of players. When they feel comfortable with what they have, they can trade from a position of strength to fill an area of need.

That position of strength can become a hole very, very quickly. I think people here tend to forget a very simple, and easy logic with their NHL players.

NHL dmen, are like pitchers. You can never, ever have to many. You just can't. So you guys might believe we're trading from a position of strength, but I'm not.

Not with Staal's uncertainty. Not with Girardi and Stralman nearing free-agency.

Nash is a RW. If he was LW, why wouldn't they have just moved Nash to the left and allowed Gaborik to play on the RW?

Nash can play on the left side. As can Zucc. As far as why Nash didn't? Who knows. Torts is no longer here so we can't assume our next coach is going to follow his logic.

You questioned our depth on the left side. All I did was give you a response to who can play LW.

Identity. What are they? Good teams have something to rest their hat on.

Identity?

New York Lundqvists. We have the best goalie on the planet. We have a plethora of solid players offensively and defensively.

I supported Torts but his prehistoric coaching tendencies were very evident. We were a hardworking team that was physical and blocked a ton of shots. Our new coach will give us a different plan of attack but our identity doesn't have to change.

 

[Fitzy]

The belief is that Sather's offer was used as leverage.

 

[Thirty One]

The belief is that Sather's offer was used as leverage.

But that wouldn't work unless Jim Rutherford (a) legitimately believed the Penguins would trade him to the Rangers or (b) is an anxiety-ridden spaz.

 

[cacchioli22]

Sather won't pay him more than Staal

then he def deserves what staal got, around 4 wouldnt be bad

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

But that wouldn't work unless Jim Rutherford (a) legitimately believed the Penguins would trade him to the Rangers or (b) is an anxiety-ridden spaz.

That's true an all, but, what does this have to do with your awesome sig? I fail to see the connection....

 

[Kwayry]

There was no way, NO WAY, they were trading Jordan Staal within the division unless the return was an overpayment they couldn't say no to.

Replace Staal by Malkin and that's how i feel about that.

The belief is that Sather's offer was used as leverage.

Dumb.
Help the Pens and make Rutherford, whom he may have to deal with in the future, mad.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Jordan staal possibly being traded here is ALOT diff than Malkin lol

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

then he def deserves what staal got, around 4 wouldnt be bad

That's what I had him at. 4m or a little more

 

[BroadwayBlues]

There was no way, NO WAY, they were trading Jordan Staal within the division unless the return was an overpayment they couldn't say no to.

Essentially they did. Canes will be in the division next year.

 

[Kwayry]

Jordan staal possibly being traded here is ALOT diff than Malkin lol

Why is it? They are different players, but it's still within the division.

 

[Kwayry]

Replace Staal by Malkin and that's how i feel about that.



Dumb.
Help the Pens and make Rutherford, whom he may have to deal with in the future, mad.

To add to that.
He probably had to show Marc he was trying to get his brother. I can see that as a benefit.