2013 NHL Draft Thread III (6/30, 3PM EDT)

[Jackets16]

Before you guys jump me for bringing it up again - what do you guys think of this?

Murray, our pick, and the kings pick for MacKinnon.

I bring it up for discussion because I would much rather have Mack than Drouin which is what was previously discussed and think it would take this kind of offer to get him. With COL open to trading the pick - what are your thoughts?

This way we could end up with Mackinnon and draft a defenseman at 18.

No thank you.

 

[Skraut]

No. quality > quantity.

If you want more 3rd liners then I don't know what to tell ya.

If you think that first and second liners only come from the top few picks in the draft, the Detroit Red Wings don't know what to tell ya.

 

[Mayor Bee]

I would jump for joy if that was the Jackets 1st/2nd round picks.

Compher is another player I see as a likely Jacket pick. Skilled forward who played for the US Development program and is headed to the U of M next season. Decent height (needs to fill-out), defensively okay, hard-working and great passer. He'll need a few years to fill-out and develop, but he should excel at Michigan. He's more of a playmaker than a sniper.

I wonder how many times this has been said in the last 20 years, and how rarely it ever translates to the NHL. Michigan is basically a black hole for touted players; I could probably put together a pretty good team of "future All-Stars" who were drafted from Michigan and never came close, or from the same level who were drafted from another place but on their way to Michigan who did the same.

Oh, what the hell...the following players were all drafted from Michigan in the last 15 years. All were first-rounders.

Forwards - Mike Comrie, Eric Nystrom, Jeff Tambellini

Defensemen - Jeff Jillson, Mike Van Ryn, Mark Mitera, Mike Komisarek

Goalie - Al Montoya

Finding guys who were on their way to Michigan would require a bit more research. We have Jack Johnson here, but he's also someone who was touted as a franchise defenseman, perennial All-Star, and future Norris candidate.

 

[Cash for Nash]

Before you guys jump me for bringing it up again - what do you guys think of this?

Murray, our pick, and the kings pick for MacKinnon.

I bring it up for discussion because I would much rather have Mack than Drouin which is what was previously discussed and think it would take this kind of offer to get him. With COL open to trading the pick - what are your thoughts?

This way we could end up with Mackinnon and draft a defenseman at 18.

I"d do Murray and our pick for MacKinnon and that's it...Nothing more.

If we offered that (unlikely) and a team didn't think twice about that offer then either: a) MacKinnon is a greek god or b) the rest of the league isn't nearly as high as some of our fanboy posters are re: Murray.

A number 2 overall selection from last year + a mid first rounder (deep draft) should be able to get it done. Anything else is overpayment.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Before you guys jump me for bringing it up again - what do you guys think of this?

Murray, our pick, and the kings pick for MacKinnon.

I bring it up for discussion because I would much rather have Mack than Drouin which is what was previously discussed and think it would take this kind of offer to get him. With COL open to trading the pick - what are your thoughts?

This way we could end up with Mackinnon and draft a defenseman at 18.

Monstrous overpayment. Teams near the top of the draft are really limited on defenseman options, particularly if they're not sold on Zadorov or Nurse. Combine the 2012 and 2013 draft, and you're looking at Jones and Murray being the #1 and #2 defensemen on the board, with a decent drop after them.

I maintain that Murray alone would be able to nab a top-5 pick. Anything beyond that...hell, two first-rounders AND last year's #2 overall pick for one player? One player who isn't regarded as a superlative prospect, a la Crosby or Lemieux? No. No way.

 

[GoJackets1]

Michigan has had its share of successful players as well though, Mayor, hasn't it? JJ, Marty Turco, Hagelin, Cammalleri, Pacioretty, Knuble, and John Madden are just some off the top of my head...

 

[Cash for Nash]

Michigan has had its share of successful players as well though, Mayor, hasn't it? JJ, Marty Turco, and Carl Hagelin are just some off the top of my head...

Brendean Morrison, Max Pacioretty, Jacob Trouba, John Madden are a few more off the top of my head.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Michigan has had its share of successful players as well though, Mayor, hasn't it? JJ, Marty Turco, Hagelin, Cammalleri, Pacioretty, Knuble, and John Madden are just some off the top of my head...

I guess it depends on once's definition of "success". Madden was a PK specialist and 3rd-liner. Hagelin is way too early to tell. Pacioretty only had one year at Michigan. Johnson hasn't come close to what was predicted for him in the NHL. Morrison spent his prime years between prime Naslund and prime Bertuzzi, but underproduced pretty badly (70 goals and 198 points in those three years, compared to 123 and 278 for Naslund, and 99 and 242 for Bertuzzi). [Also, I saw plenty of Vancouver in those years]. Cammalleri's had two big years, and Turco one.

Basically, we're talking about a handful of guys who had a small handful of excellent seasons, and a few more of good but not great production and play. And let's not forget about what Dean Lombardi said about Michigan either.

 

[cslebn]

I guess it depends on once's definition of "success". Madden was a PK specialist and 3rd-liner. Hagelin is way too early to tell. Pacioretty only had one year at Michigan. Johnson hasn't come close to what was predicted for him in the NHL. Morrison spent his prime years between prime Naslund and prime Bertuzzi, but underproduced pretty badly (70 goals and 198 points in those three years, compared to 123 and 278 for Naslund, and 99 and 242 for Bertuzzi). [Also, I saw plenty of Vancouver in those years]. Cammalleri's had two big years, and Turco one.

Basically, we're talking about a handful of guys who had a small handful of excellent seasons, and a few more of good but not great production and play. And let's not forget about what Dean Lombardi said about Michigan either.

Let's be real though, we're also only talking about one institution. What colleges have done better than U-M?

Here's how I'd judge it. They went to college so they aren't Crosby-Tavares level players (yes those two aren't the same but you see my point). So if you get 2nd and 3rd liners out of them how have careers over 5 years as a solid NHLer (roughly trying to get a games played number here) than they are likely a success. I'd call them solid. Superstars, no. But failures - that's a stretch.

So that makes a list that looks like:
Steve Shields
Marty Turco
Chris Tamer
Michael Cammelleri
Eric Nystrom
Matt Hunwick (not sure why but he slips in)
David Moss
Max Pac
Carl Hagelin
Andrew Ebbett (Loved watching him in college)
Mike Brown
Andrew Cogliano
JMFJ
Mike Knuble
Al Montoya
Mike Komisarek
Steve Kampfer (on his way at the rate he's playing)
Mike Comrie
John Madden
Brendan Morrison
Jeff Tambellini
Aaron Ward
Mike Van Ryn

Never mind the list of players that played something like 200 games like Andy Hibbert or Bill Muckalt.

 

[cslebn]

Just to follow up my post and get back on topic (had to defend my alma mater); if we could get Shinkaruk and Zykov thatwould be fricking fantastic.

 

[Cash for Nash]

Let's be real though, we're also only talking about one institution. What colleges have done better than U-M?

Here's how I'd judge it. They went to college so they aren't Crosby-Tavares level players (yes those two aren't the same but you see my point). So if you get 2nd and 3rd liners out of them how have careers over 5 years as a solid NHLer (roughly trying to get a games played number here) than they are likely a success. I'd call them solid. Superstars, no. But failures - that's a stretch.

So that makes a list that looks like:
Steve Shields
Marty Turco
Chris Tamer
Michael Cammelleri
Eric Nystrom
Matt Hunwick (not sure why but he slips in)
David Moss
Max Pac
Carl Hagelin
Andrew Ebbett (Loved watching him in college)
Mike Brown
Andrew Cogliano
JMFJ
Mike Knuble
Al Montoya
Mike Komisarek
Steve Kampfer (on his way at the rate he's playing)
Mike Comrie
John Madden
Brendan Morrison
Jeff Tambellini
Aaron Ward
Mike Van Ryn

Never mind the list of players that played something like 200 games like Andy Hibbert or Bill Muckalt.

None of those players above hold a candle to RJ Umberger

 

[NotWendell]

None of those players above hold a candle to RJ Umberger

I wouldn't trade RJ Umberger for the ENTIRE Red Wings roster!

and in case you missed it,

 

[Mayor Bee]

Let's be real though, we're also only talking about one institution. What colleges have done better than U-M?

Here's how I'd judge it. They went to college so they aren't Crosby-Tavares level players (yes those two aren't the same but you see my point). So if you get 2nd and 3rd liners out of them how have careers over 5 years as a solid NHLer (roughly trying to get a games played number here) than they are likely a success. I'd call them solid. Superstars, no. But failures - that's a stretch.

...

Never mind the list of players that played something like 200 games like Andy Hibbert or Bill Muckalt.

I'm simply saying that the criticism of Michigan as a place to develop NHL players is entirely justified. It's fundamentally the same as it was for Ohio State football under Tressel: they get these 5-star recruits every single year, and a disproportionate number end up doing little in the NFL.

Michigan hockey has the ability to pick up the phone and say, "We're Michigan. We wear striped helmets, our band plays 'Hail to the Victors' when you score a goal. And you can be the big man on campus without being the only big man on campus." They can pick whoever they want, and they get the best recruits in college hockey year in and year out. So where is the corresponding NHL success? These aren't scrubs we're talking about; these are kids who simply take a different path to the NHL. Jack Johnson, Jonathan Toews, Dany Heatley, Zach Parise, Phil Kessel...kids like that could have gone the junior route and would have been standouts. They went to college instead.

(From 2003-12, 62 players were drafted out of Ohio State; these are the guys who were either recruited by Tressel or who were primarily developed by Tressel. Exactly two of them have ever made a Pro Bowl, both of whom were among the 14 first-rounders. This is what I'm saying Michigan hockey is the equivalent of...excellent prospects, among the best that you can possibly get, come in every year. What you're left with 5 years after drafting them is either nothing or nowhere close to what the kid was supposed to be.)

I'll also remind everyone that might have forgotten...I despise Ohio State. My criticism of Michigan hockey is not in any way tempered or inflamed by regional or local rivalries, which I don't partake in anyway.

 

[major major]

Draftsite.com has us taking Shinkaruk, Zykov, Compher, and De la Rose with our first four picks. Don't have any oppositions to that whatsoever. I'd like to know more about Zykov and Compher though, if someone would care enough to enlighten us less knowledgeable prospect folk.

And this mock has us going with Domi, Zadorov, and Hartman in the first round. That's the best haul I've seen of any mock. Shinkaruk, Zykov, and Compher is really good too.

 

[major major]

Before you guys jump me for bringing it up again - what do you guys think of this?

Murray, our pick, and the kings pick for MacKinnon.

I bring it up for discussion because I would much rather have Mack than Drouin which is what was previously discussed and think it would take this kind of offer to get him. With COL open to trading the pick - what are your thoughts?

This way we could end up with Mackinnon and draft a defenseman at 18.

If we're down to final offers I might do it. It looks like an overpayment, but I think it might make the team better.

 

[Jackets16]

And this mock has us going with Domi, Zadorov, and Hartman in the first round. That's the best haul I've seen of any mock. Shinkaruk, Zykov, and Compher is really good too.

I would take either .

 

[bester vaive]

Mayor Bee, I'd add Botterill to the UM disappointment list. Played with Morrison on some great college teams, but never made it in the bigs. His sister has been a great player for Team Canada, though.

 

[Kington91]

If we're down to final offers I might do it. It looks like an overpayment, but I think it might make the team better.

Exactly my thoughts. I think we are a better team after this trade with MacKinnon.

 

[Sore Loser]

Conversation from last night.

(Halifax scores)
Mrs. Bee: Um, what are you doing?
Me: Did you see that?
Mrs. Bee: Yes, I did. Why are you standing up and just swaying from side to side with your mouth hanging open?
Me: I 'unno, it was a great play by...I think that was Drouin. I can't read the numbers.
Mrs. Bee: You look like that guy on every NBA bench. Someone on his team dunks, and he jumps up and just stands there, swaying and slowly shaking his head.

It was Drouin, by the way. And apparently my reaction was exactly the same as Martin Frk on his goal.

I kept rewinding the footage and making my wife watch the goals again ... I'm sure she hates me thoroughly after days like that.

I was really impressed with MacKinnon and liked the play of Rattie as well.

Only problem I have with Rattie is that he's a perimeter player ... that big shot will only get him so far at the next level; he has to learn to compete and go to the tougher areas. Strength will be important.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Craig Custance ‏@CraigCustance 50 s
All three Columbus first-round picks very much in play for immediate and long-term help for Blue Jackets.

 

[Roadman]

Craig Custance ‏@CraigCustance 50 s
All three Columbus first-round picks very much in play for immediate and long-term help for Blue Jackets.

I'll repeat my comment made in that thread..

of course they are.

And I'll add here, why wouldn't they be? As well as probably half the roister. If it improves the club, I would bet they will entertain just about any proposal.

Kind of part of the job description.

DUH... some serious analysis on CC's part.

 

[CBJx614]

"immediate long term"

Their gunning for a young stud. They're gonna make a big move as much as I'd like to see us sit back pick 3 studs and move on to the next season, its not gonna go down like that. Which I'm fine with, Jarmo seems to know exactly what he wants and won't settle for less. This first offseason for JK is gonna be crucial, it sets the tone for the next few seasons at very least.






Is it June 30th yet???

 

[EspenK]

"immediate long term"

Their gunning for a young stud. They're gonna make a big move as much as I'd like to see us sit back pick 3 studs and move on to the next season, its not gonna go down like that. Which I'm fine with, Jarmo seems to know exactly what he wants and won't settle for less. This first offseason for JK is gonna be crucial, it sets the tone for the next few seasons at very least.

Is it June 30th yet???

Could be. Hopefully is. Although I read the comment to mean they are looking for both which could mean more than one guy.

 

[Jackets16]

I'll repeat my comment made in that thread..

of course they are.

And I'll add here, why wouldn't they be? As well as probably half the roister. If it improves the club, I would bet they will entertain just about any proposal.

Kind of part of the job description.

Exactly

 

[Sore Loser]

I'm a fan of acquiring immediate, long-term help ... but only if the price is right. I'm not a fan of bringing in anyone with a superiority complex, or anyone who feels entitled ... so it had better be the right fit all around to make me happy.