2013 New Jersey Devils (Team/Player Discussion)-Offseason FA and trade talk Part XVII

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

I said it before (during the Swiss reporter fiasco) and I'll say it again, I don't want Brunner at a penny over $2.5M. That is the absolute maximum number I'd give him. He simply is too risky for anyone to take on at anything more than that.

 

[MartyOwns]

Here you go

****in sick. gotta order me one online somewhere

 

[Czech Trio]

We pick up Brunner, and likely both Gionta and Barch are in Albany. We already have too many forwards.

Quality > Quantity

I'd rather have Brunner and Gionta/Barch in Albany than no Brunner and Gionta/Barch in NJ.

For me ideally:
top 6 - Zajac, Henrique, Clowe, Elias, Ryder, Brunner
bottom 6 - Bernier, Carter, Olesz, Jagr, Zubrus, Loktionov, Josefson

Barch is useless. If we need someone to fight or lay out punishment we have Bernier/Carter who are fully capable at doing it. Gionta is easy to upgrade on as well. I would want Olesz/Loktionov/Josefson to compete for 2 forward spots.

So probably something like this:

Elias-Henrique-Ryder
Clowe-Zajac-Brunner
Zubrus-Loktionov-Jagr (or Josefson for Loki)
Olesz-Carter-Bernier (or Josefson for Olesz, shift Carter to wing, JJ to center)

or Loktionov drops out all together and Josefson + Olesz get spots. For me thats 2 very good 2nd lines, a very good 3rd line, and a very good 4th line.

I think its possible that a Henrique deal is waiting for ownership to change hands and somebody like Brunner could also be waiting. Who knows even Grabo.

My philosophy is do your best to upgrade the current team and deal with something like too many forwards later. Its easy to send Gionta/Barch/etc. down.

 

[NC107*]

Quality > Quantity

I'd rather have Brunner and Gionta/Barch in Albany than no Brunner and Gionta/Barch in NJ.

For me ideally:
top 6 - Zajac, Henrique, Clowe, Elias, Ryder, Brunner
bottom 6 - Bernier, Carter, Olesz, Jagr, Zubrus, Loktionov, Josefson

Barch is useless. If we need someone to fight or lay out punishment we have Bernier/Carter who are fully capable at doing it. Gionta is easy to upgrade on as well. I would want Olesz/Loktionov/Josefson to compete for 2 forward spots.

I agree with your comments regarding Gionta and Barch. I believe you will find that Jagr is in the top six and Clowe is in the bottom six.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

And that's over $1.5 million in the minors plus $1 million for Olesz to be a scratch plus $3 million on a multi-year deal for a question mark player nobody in the league wants at that price.

And my point is that it's certainly not the first time we would do that. Those guys are all interchangeable and easy to move. If Lou believes in Brunner none of those guys will prevent him from signing him.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

I agree with your comments regarding Gionta and Barch. I believe you will find that Jagr is in the top six and Clowe is in the bottom six.

My retort is the same retort I use when guys want Zubrus in the top-6. You're talking about older guys whose minutes have been on the decline (Zubrus especially, each of the last 3 years). They're proficient in special teams - more so than 5 on 5 actually. So to maximize their impact on our team you need to limit their 5 on 5 time and maximize their time on the PP/PK.

I believe PDB puts Jagr on the third line with Zubrus if we acquire Brunner, Grabo, or another forward via trade. Obviously if we don't Jagr might be forced in the top 6 but in an ideal world, you manage Jagr's minutes and save his legs.

Part of the reason Zubrus has been so good on the PK is because we manage his minutes so well.

 

[Cowbell232]

And my point is that it's certainly not the first time we would do that. Those guys are all interchangeable and easy to move. If Lou believes in Brunner none of those guys will prevent him from signing him.

So if memory serves me right, Olesz was signed when Brunner was available, and now all of a sudden he wants to swap them?

That's not how Lou operates IMHO. He goes after what he wants, and usually doesn't change his mind like that.

 

[Classic Devil]

I fully expect Olesz to be a regular.

 

[NC107*]

My retort is the same retort I use when guys want Zubrus in the top-6. You're talking about older guys whose minutes have been on the decline (Zubrus especially, each of the last 3 years). They're proficient in special teams - more so than 5 on 5 actually. So to maximize their impact on our team you need to limit their 5 on 5 time and maximize their time on the PP/PK.

I believe PDB puts Jagr on the third line with Zubrus if we acquire Brunner, Grabo, or another forward via trade. Obviously if we don't Jagr might be forced in the top 6 but in an ideal world, you manage Jagr's minutes and save his legs.

Part of the reason Zubrus has been so good on the PK is because we manage his minutes so well.

As the team stands today Jagr is in top 6 interchanging for some rest. But is someone else like a Brunner is acquired then he would be in the bottom 6 where his TOI can be managed. He will be on PP.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

So if memory serves me right, Olesz was signed when Brunner was available, and now all of a sudden he wants to swap them?

That's not how Lou operates IMHO. He goes after what he wants, and usually doesn't change his mind like that.

We're focusing on Olesz here and I think he would be the fourth or fifth cut. I've already said Barch, Gionta, Teddy, Olesz, Jajo probably in that order.

Olesz and Brunner offer two different skillsets and would be assigned two different responsibilities. Barch and Gio would be expendable for a guy like Brunner. No doubt in my mind.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

I fully expect Olesz to be a regular.

I do as well, at some point. Granted if we don't make anymore moves then he certainly will be from game number 1. If we do, I think it will take someone failing (Lokti, Jajo) before Pete throws him in there.

Olesz is just as unproven and underwhelming (to this point) as Lokti, Jajo maybe not Teddy.

As the team stands today Jagr is in top 6 interchanging for some rest. But is someone else like a Brunner is acquired then he would be in the bottom 6 where his TOI can be managed. He will be on PP.

Maybe, maybe not.

Elias - Zajac - Ryder
Henrique - Lokti - Clowe
Olesz - Zubrus - Jagr
Carter Josefson Bernier

That would be viable all things considered. Jagr is a top 6 talent, no question, but to manage his ice time he can't play top 6 minutes. Substituting him in and out risks chemistry, in my opinion. Put him with Zubrus on the third line and watch some puck possession magic and some fantastic special teams play.

 

[Classic Devil]

I do as well, at some point. Granted if we don't make anymore moves then he certainly will be from game number 1. If we do, I think it will take someone failing (Lokti, Jajo) before Pete throws him in there.

Olesz is just as unproven and underwhelming (to this point) as Lokti, Jajo maybe not Teddy.



Maybe, maybe not.

Elias - Zajac - Ryder
Henrique - Lokti - Clowe
Olesz - Zubrus - Jagr
Carter Josefson Bernier

That would be viable all things considered. Jagr is a top 6 talent, no question, but to manage his ice time he can't play top 6 minutes. Substituting him in and out risks chemistry, in my opinion. Put him with Zubrus on the third line and watch some puck possession magic and some fantastic special teams play.

You're overlooking the fact that Olesz played for DeBoer in Florida and got a fair amount of ice time.

 

[DEVILS ALL THE WAY*]

I fully expect Olesz to be a regular.

I don't see why Lou would've handed a 1M$ to a player he doesn't see being a regular in our lineup.

On the flip side, he's been handing contracts to guys like Peters, Barch, Janssen, etc.

So who knows

 

[Wingman77]

How about we wait until camp before deciding who the coaching staff/Lou will cut considering they haven't even stepped foot on the friggen ice as a team for a single second yet?

There are surprises every single year regarding guys who do and do not make it

For all we know, Olesz won't even make it a day and Gio will have a career year

 

[DEVILS ALL THE WAY*]

How about we wait until camp before deciding who the coaching staff/Lou will cut considering they haven't even stepped foot on the friggen ice as a team for a single second yet?

There are surprises every single year regarding guys who do and do not make it

For all we know, Olesz won't even make it a day and Gio will have a career year

You don't hand a contract like we did to Olesz, only for us to sit him in the press box... unless your name is Volchenkov.

 

[Wingman77]

You don't hand a contract like we did to Olesz, only for us to sit him in the press box... unless your name is Volchenkov.

Brendan Shanahan says hi

You never know what to expect, espcially with the Devils and Lou

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

You're overlooking the fact that Olesz played for DeBoer in Florida and got a fair amount of ice time.

Possibly. However PDB was pretty hard on Olesz, he was critical of his toughness and critical of minor injuries (broken finger). He also healthy scratched Olesz quite a bit as well IIRC.

I don't believe that Olesz, by having that one-way contract, is anymore ahead of Teddy, Jajo, Gio for a spot on a line. He will have to earn it.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

How about we wait until camp before deciding who the coaching staff/Lou will cut considering they haven't even stepped foot on the friggen ice as a team for a single second yet?

There are surprises every single year regarding guys who do and do not make it

For all we know, Olesz won't even make it a day and Gio will have a career year

We aren't discussing who will be cut per se. We're discussing who would be in line to get cut should something better come along (Grabo, Brunner, a trade).

Brendan Shanahan says hi

You never know what to expect, espcially with the Devils and Lou

And this x1000. When I hear "Lou doesn't operate that way." I scratch my head. Of course he does. He's signed, sat, cut players worth more than Olesz.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

****in sick. gotta order me one online somewhere

I couldn't find it anywhere online. I was in Morris County yesterday, thought of the Jagr shirt, and made some calls. Devils Den didn't have any, but the Stadium Shop in Newark Penn Station just got a fresh shipment.

I don't know how many of you are familiar with this store in the train station, but the owner/manager is a great guy. See him all the time walking from to train to the PruCenter. He was very excited yesterday that he seems to be the only guy in the area carrying Jagr shirts. Those of you in the area who want a Jagr shirt should try to get one from this place and support it.

I agree with your comments regarding Gionta and Barch. I believe you will find that Jagr is in the top six and Clowe is in the bottom six.

I'm not sure where Jagr will be placed in the lineup, but I have a strong inclination to think that Clowe will be in the top-6. Lou's comments about Clowe's game and versatility will probably lead to him at least starting the year in the top-6.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Possibly. However PDB was pretty hard on Olesz, he was critical of his toughness and critical of minor injuries (broken finger). He also healthy scratched Olesz quite a bit as well IIRC.

I don't believe that Olesz, by having that one-way contract, is anymore ahead of Teddy, Jajo, Gio for a spot on a line. He will have to earn it.

from the highlight i have seen he flops, im not a big fan of that, hopefully he doesn't do it this year

 

[Wingman77]

We aren't discussing who will be cut per se. We're discussing who would be in line to get cut should something better come along (Grabo, Brunner, a trade).

Should we sign anybody else before now and training camp such as the options you mentioned, nobody will be cut immediately - it will just be more competition during camp and as it goes on and once it finishes, thats when we'll see cuts and demotions as guys are weeded out

and there is likely going to be a couple of camp invites as well on top of what we have currently

 

[New Jersey Devils]

I couldn't find it anywhere online. I was in Morris County yesterday, thought of the Jagr shirt, and made some calls. Devils Den didn't have any, but the Stadium Shop in Newark Penn Station just got a fresh shipment.

I don't know how many of you are familiar with this store in the train station, but the owner/manager is a great guy. See him all the time walking from to train to the PruCenter. He was very excited yesterday that he seems to be the only guy in the area carrying Jagr shirts. Those of you in the area who want a Jagr shirt should try to get one from this place and support it.



I'm not sure where Jagr will be placed in the lineup, but I have a strong inclination to think that Clowe will be in the top-6. Lou's comments about Clowe's game and versatility will probably lead to him at least starting the year in the top-6.

The store is in Newark Penn Station? Or is it that store that you pass by when you take the indoor walkway to the arena?

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

The store is in Newark Penn Station? Or is it that store that you pass by when you take the indoor walkway to the arena?

The latter.

Though I probably shouldn't, I do count that whole thing as Newark Penn Station.

 

[NJDevs26]

Brendan Shanahan says hi

You never know what to expect, espcially with the Devils and Lou

iirc Shanny didn't have a contract the final preseason when he was cut. Plus he was beaten out by in-house options after camp. Signing Brunner would 'cut' another forward before camp even started. At some point you can't keep signing guys, especially since we always seem to push the 50-contract limit and we're already at 14 NHL deals plus Gio who we don't know if he's odd man out yet or not. If you send him down you probably lose him through waivers.

And honestly Brunner is NOT a guy you make room for, he's a guy you get at your price/convenience or not at all.

 

[Wingman77]

iirc Shanny didn't have a contract the final preseason when he was cut. Plus he was beaten out by in-house options after camp. Signing Brunner would 'cut' another forward before camp even started. At some point you can't keep signing guys, especially since we always seem to push the 50-contract limit and we're already at 14 NHL deals plus Gio who we don't know if he's odd man out yet or not. If you send him down you probably lose him through waivers.

And honestly Brunner is NOT a guy you make room for, he's a guy you get at your price/convenience or not at all.

He had a 1yr/$1m deal in place

The 'cut' before camp starts is how it goes every single year with one or more players on every team - a surplus of guys are brought in and then weeded out for competition purposes and for said team to get looks at different options