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2013 New Jersey Devils (Team/Player Discussion)- Offseason FA and trade talk Part IIX

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Get outta here with that Ryane Clowe mess. He can't even spell his first name right.
 
ghdi said:
Get outta here with that Ryane Clowe mess. He can't even spell his first name right.
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Here's my post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic Devil
Clowe scored what, two goals all of last season? Please.
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That's pretty short-sighted. He did score 3 goals last year (in 12 games with the Rangers). Remember he was in a pretty crappy situation with SJ, and he scored 0 in 28. He wasn't happy there.

Prior to last year here are his goal totals / games played:

2011: 17 / 76
2010: 24/ 75
2009: 19 / 82
2008: 22 / 71

vs Clarkson

30, 12, 11, 17 the last 4 years. Which one is not like the others?

Clarkson showed incredible luck and inconsistency last year with his scoring. The rest of their games are pretty similar, Clowe is more skilled.
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You either believe that Ryane Clowe regressed immensely in the scoring department (ignoring his pretty solid scoring with the Rangers) or you believe last year might have been the exception and not the rule (that's my opinion).

I would expect a higher goal output from Clowe. I know Clarky has had two pretty solid years but watching him play every night has me firmly believing that he's pretty damn lucky on the vast majority of his goals. When the other shoe drops I expect Clarky to be the player he was before his 30 goal season and Clowe to be the player he was before last year.

Their intangibles are nearly identical. Clowe is nails.
 
tycobb said:
Clowe is just as good as Clarkson I see him as a 40-55 pts winger.
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I sincerely understand and respect how loyal Devils fans are to David Clarkson. I understand that that loyalty can cloud judgement and, full disclosure, I've never been much of a fan of David Clarkson's game. He's a poor skater, has a poor shot, has poor vision, and makes his living being a grinder. I cheer for the guy because I respect his game and how he consistently leaves it all on the ice.

But he's not a 30 goal scorer. That's not who he is. He may barely be a 20 goal scorer. He's a liability on offense more than anything.

Ryane Clowe is just a better player than David Clarkson and will come considerably cheaper. I say take advantage of the fact that people are going to focus on his 3 goals last year and get him on the cheap for 3-4 years. There's no way Clowe is scoring 6 goals next year. Last year was his first single digit goal output of his career (16 is the prior low).
 
now we need to resign Elias and sign or trade for a top 6 forward and this offseason will be a great success
 
Zajacs Bowl Cut said:
1) no hes not

2) thats a BIG difference. 40 points and 55 pts are vastly different
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Ryane Clowe has played 435 games. David Clarkson has played 426.

Ryan Clowe has scored 104 career goals and has 175 assists.
David Clarkson has scored 97 career goals and has 73 assists.

If the gap in assists isn't a considerable demonstration of just how superior Ryan Clowe is offensively (279 points to 170) then I have no other available metric to share. But I hope that you guys can objectively look at their offensive game and say, "well damn, I didn't realize how good of a passer/facilitator Clowe is and how poor Clarkson is in that department."

The year before, he was the second best player according to raw CORSI:

http://kuklaskorner.com/index.php/psh/comments/top_20_raw_corsi_ratings1

Clarkson, needless to say, isn't really highly regarded according to advanced metrics.
 
Zajacs Bowl Cut said:
1) no hes not

2) thats a BIG difference. 40 points and 55 pts are vastly different
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Looking at his last 5 seasons. Point totals 52, 57, 62, 45, 19(projects to 38 over full season).


What do you consider Clarkson?

Last 5 season: 32, 24 (hurt half the year), 18 (terrible team), 46 (career peak), 24 (projects to 41).

I would figure Clarkson would be good 35 - 50 range. It is telling how few assist Clarkson gets.
 
I'm fully expecting us to sign Weiss. I really want Brunner but I doubt he's leaving Detroit. I want no part of Stalberg. That quote by Lou doesn't surprise me at all. We just don't have enough assets for a big time trade unless its for someone like Hemsky or Cammalleri. Better to just drop cash on someone.
 
Plus, a few of those Clowe numbers are from a SJ Sharks team that was the best run and gun offense in the league.
 
I keep on forgetting about Weiss. I wonder Pete wants him to be the LW to Zajac - Kovy line.
 
ThePSEGPowerPoster said:
I sincerely understand and respect how loyal Devils fans are to David Clarkson. I understand that that loyalty can cloud judgement and, full disclosure, I've never been much of a fan of David Clarkson's game. He's a poor skater, has a poor shot, has poor vision, and makes his living being a grinder. I cheer for the guy because I respect his game and how he consistently leaves it all on the ice.

But he's not a 30 goal scorer. That's not who he is. He may barely be a 20 goal scorer. He's a liability on offense more than anything.

Ryane Clowe is just a better player than David Clarkson and will come considerably cheaper. I say take advantage of the fact that people are going to focus on his 3 goals last year and get him on the cheap for 3-4 years. There's no way Clowe is scoring 6 goals next year. Last year was his first single digit goal output of his career (16 is the prior low).
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Clarkson has been better of late.

Clowe is a better all-around player. Clarkson is a better niche player. Clarkson gives the Devils a dynamic they lack, while Clowe just fits right in with guys like Zubrus.

I'd rather someone like Bouchard who gives us something we lack, instead of Clowe.
 
tycobb said:
Looking at his last 5 seasons. Point totals 52, 57, 62, 45, 19(projects to 38 over full season).


What do you consider Clarkson?

Last 5 season: 32, 24 (hurt half the year), 18 (terrible team), 46 (career peak), 24 (projects to 41).

I would figure Clarkson would be good 35 - 50 range. It is telling how few assist Clarkson gets.
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I don't think looking at raw point totals does Clowe justice on the offensive end. Clowe is smarter, better, and more skilled on that end then Clarkson.
 
Buddy Lou said:
Plus, a few of those Clowe numbers are from a SJ Sharks team that was the best run and gun offense in the league.
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That's an excellent point and I won't disagree there. However, to turn that around a bit, do you think Clarkson would "fit" on those run and gun San Jose Sharks? I don't believe he possesses the skill set to "fit."

So, in essence, if we can replace Clarkson with a player with Clowe's skillset, without losing ANYTHING in intangibles, why not? We need offense, right?

I just feel like it's a clear upgrade.

Zippy316 said:
Clarkson has been better of late.

Clowe is a better all-around player. Clarkson is a better niche player. Clarkson gives the Devils a dynamic they lack, while Clowe just fits right in with guys like Zubrus.

I'd rather someone like Bouchard who gives us something we lack, instead of Clowe.
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What do you mean by "better" though? Clarkson has scored more goals, yes, but it doesn't necessarily mean he's a better offensive player. Clowe is an asset on offense while Clarkson, goals be damned, is a liability. He doesn't distribute, he doesn't work with his teammates, he dumps, chases, and prays the puck isn't turned over.

Clowe, because he's been forced to adapt to the Sharks offensive system, possesses some skills that would be crucial for us. We don't have many skilled offensive players. I would be interested in seeing JaJo lined with Clowe, for example. I think that would be great. JaJo with Clarky would be (has been) a disaster. Because for all of JaJo's creativity, Clarky has none.
 
Zajacs Bowl Cut said:
Weiss is a center.

HEnrique would move to winger if we got Weiss.
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I know he is a center but I figure that maybe Pete would move him to play LW with Zajac and Kovy.

Weiss - Zajac - Kovalchuk
Breire - Elias - Zubrus
???? - Henrique - Bernier
Carter - Jayo - Gionta
 
ThePSEGPowerPoster said:
Here's my post:





You either believe that Ryane Clowe regressed immensely in the scoring department (ignoring his pretty solid scoring with the Rangers) or you believe last year might have been the exception and not the rule (that's my opinion).

I would expect a higher goal output from Clowe. I know Clarky has had two pretty solid years but watching him play every night has me firmly believing that he's pretty damn lucky on the vast majority of his goals. When the other shoe drops I expect Clarky to be the player he was before his 30 goal season and Clowe to be the player he was before last year.

Their intangibles are nearly identical. Clowe is nails.
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http://www.inlouwetrust.com/2013/6/...ced-stats-among-top-scoring-2013-ufa-forwards
http://www.inlouwetrust.com/2013/5/...n-stands-alone-the-2013-ufa-forwards-by-shots

Clarkson is the best UFA in terms of possession and shots, and it isn't close.
 
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