2013 New Jersey Devils (Team/Player Discussion) - Offseason FA and trade talk Part II

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

Could it be that the PKing was just bad?

Any goalie that got this team to the playoffs would get the Hart Trophy. Unless we won more shootouts that is. The shootouts were terrible this year. Both goaltenders looked like they had never played in a shootout before for most of this season, and the shooters were astronomically bad.

We win a few more shootouts, had better special teams, and yes maybe a little bit better goaltending then we might get into the playoffs. We were good at 5 on 5 this year though.

Your argument is not coherent. On one hand, you say that any goalie who got this team to the playoffs should have won the Hart Trophy. But on the other, you blame the goalies for our bad shootout performance, which, if reversed, would have come close to getting us into the playoffs.

The shootout is a crapshoot anyway.

 

[Bleedred]

Your argument is not coherent. On one hand, you say that any goalie who got this team to the playoffs should have won the Hart Trophy. But on the other, you blame the goalies for our bad shootout performance, which, if reversed, would have gotten us into the playoffs.

If we had gotten to the playoffs with the shootout record we had then yes we would have needed Hart Trophy goaltending.

If we had gotten to the playoffs, but had a better shootout record with the same number of goals scored, and against in game then no.

Say we went 5-4 in shootouts rather than 2-7, and didn't blow those two leads in Florida. That's 7 more points. We still probably don't get in cause the Islanders beat us in ROW. Though maybe the team actually shows up to play the Rangers one of those two games at MSG, and we win one.

 

[apice3*]

Yeah let's not look to upgrade, we have Barch, Dag's and Tedenby. Cap space? what does that have to do with anything? It's about intricacies.


Is anyone really buying this argument?

You obviously can't read. You don't even know what you're arguing honestly so I'll enlighten you. Again.

I originally stated that if we do not make a push for free agents, it's because of a numbers game, not a money game. Never once did I say we shouldn't make a push for a free agent. I want Horton. I want Stalberg. But I do not see how we can sign them when we don't even have room on a roster for our current team.

But please, continue to create your own arguments that have nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

 

[apice3*]

Also, people here truly underrate what Dags can do, and what he did in his brief time last season. Not really surprised by that, though.

 

[Bleedred]

We will have some room if we don't re sign D'Agostini. I don't think Matteau makes the team out of camp this year. I really think they want him in the minors for at least a year.

It also just might take Clarkson walking for us to make a decent signing too.

 

[Bleedred]

Also, people here truly underrate what Dags can do, and what he did in his brief time last season. Not really surprised by that, though.

Nothing wrong with him, but is it really a big deal if he's not brought back in favor of making a bigger signing?

 

[apice3*]

It also just might take Clarkson walking for us to make a decent signing too.

Unfortunately this isn't a video game where you pass on Clarkson and take Horton, no problem.

If you pass on Clarkson and shoot for Horton and miss, you might end up with Pesonen.

 

[apice3*]

Nothing wrong with him, but is it really a big deal if he's not brought back in favor of making a bigger signing?

See my post above.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

I think Lou got Dags for several reasons. One of which was the Clarkson plan B should he depart due to free agency. Dags has unrealized upside still and could fill the 3rd line RW role perfectly if things work out.

 

[apice3*]

Yeah I don't see why Lou would give up a draft pick for an RFA just to let him walk. I don't think he has to with being a Clarkson backup plan. Like Loktionov, I think he found a young player with talent on the block for cheap and took it.

 

[SeidoN]

I think Lou got Dags for several reasons. One of which was the Clarkson plan B should he depart due to free agency. Dags has unrealized upside still and could fill the 3rd line RW role perfectly if things work out.

Indeed. Dags was inserted in the middle of the season and adopted our forecheck really well even from night 1. and the goals he got were really quite nice. with a full training camp and developing chemistry, I think he could be a really solid 3rd liner for us

 

[apice3*]

Loktionov, Henrique, and Dags had chemistry.

 

[DEVILS ALL THE WAY*]

If Clarkson walks and our backup plan is D'Agostini, we're in a world of hurt. D'Agostini is a project and they can't all turn out like Loktionov. We got "lucky" with that move and it looks like it'll pay off in a big way for us but D'Agostini hasn't lived up to expectations in Montreal or St-Louis, so I don't know why he'd suddenly turn it around in Jersey, but you never know I guess.

I do like his speed but outside of that, he doesn't really bring anything to the table. He's basically the winger version of Josefson and that's fine and all but we need guys to can chip in offensively and not work the PK.

I don't really care if he's brought back or not.

 

[SeidoN]

If Clarkson walks and our backup plan is D'Agostini, we're in a world of hurt. D'Agostini is a project and they can't all turn out like Loktionov. We got "lucky" with that move and it looks like it'll pay off in a big way for us but D'Agostini hasn't lived up to expectations in Montreal or St-Louis, so I don't know why he'd suddenly turn it around in Jersey, but you never know I guess.

I do like his speed but outside of that, he doesn't really bring anything to the table. He's basically the winger version of Josefson and that's fine and all but we need guys to can chip in offensively and not work the PK.

I don't really care if he's brought back or not.

I dont think anyone is suggesting Dags as a replacement for Clarky. two very different players. if we needed to replace Clarkson we would need to look at someone like Horton and put in a competetive offer. If we lost Clarkson and signed no free agents, THEN we would be up the creek

 

[CerebralGenesis]

Dags is a RFA and letting one go for nothing when you paid an asset for them would be silly.

Hopefully he looks better under a full camp. He provides some stuff the team sorely needs but was pretty deficient at other areas. Projecting progress is how we ended up with this past season.

 

[Benedict Parisechuk]

Just the thought of bringing back our entire forward corps, who were historically inept at scoring, makes me wanna lose the panda express I just ate. Get a top 6 player who actually can produce instead of launching pucks into orbit and/or into goalies chests please and thank you. How that person is obtained, I have no clue, but just do it somehow. Man it's only May 7 and we already sound like broken records.

And yes the goaltending for the most part was average to below average. Marty was fine in spurts but he gave up a ****load of back breakers especially after he came back from his injury. I know it's hard for people to grasp now, since Marty is the best to ever do it, but he was pretty bad the last month and is a top 15 goalie at best at this stage in his career. He was way down on the list problems but he was still a problem. Hedberg was ******g dreadful when counted on and that's really all you need to say about him.

 

[Bleedred]

Just the thought of bringing back our entire forward corps, who were historically inept at scoring, makes me wanna lose the panda express I just ate. Get a top 6 player who actually can produce instead of launching pucks into orbit and/or into goalies chests please and thank you. How that person is obtained, I have no clue, but just do it somehow. Man it's only May 7 and we already sound like broken records.

And yes the goaltending for the most part was average to below average. Marty was fine in spurts but he gave up a ****load of back breakers especially after he came back from his injury. I know it's hard for people to grasp now, since Marty is the best to ever do it, but he was pretty bad the last month and is a top 15 goalie at best at this stage in his career. He was way down on the list problems but he was still a problem. Hedberg was ******g dreadful when counted on and that's really all you need to say about him.

Offense is really needed. If Hedberg does decide to retire then I don't know why people think we're going out to get another goalie cause it's just gonna be Kinkaid brought up to be backup I would bet. And with Pete's unwillingness to play him when Moose was ******** all over the place then who knows? We could possibly see the pre 2010 Marty Brodeur workload again, and remember the pre 2010 Marty?

75+ games a season with Vezina winning/nominating seasons, and horrific playoffs with way more bad goals than we saw last years playoffs when he played pretty damn good after the Florida series. If people remember the 06-08 playoffs and impossible angle goals from Vinny, St Louis, Staal, and Alfredsson, then I don't know how you could want him playing many games. Face it, if Hedberg retires then Kinkaid will be the backup.

 

[Benedict Parisechuk]

If Clarkson walks and our backup plan is D'Agostini, we're in a world of hurt. D'Agostini is a project and they can't all turn out like Loktionov. We got "lucky" with that move and it looks like it'll pay off in a big way for us but D'Agostini hasn't lived up to expectations in Montreal or St-Louis, so I don't know why he'd suddenly turn it around in Jersey, but you never know I guess.

I do like his speed but outside of that, he doesn't really bring anything to the table. He's basically the winger version of Josefson and that's fine and all but we need guys to can chip in offensively and not work the PK.

I don't really care if he's brought back or not.

I'm already mentally preparing for a scenario like this. I can read Lou's quote on TG's blog now:

"We think Matt can really take his game to another level and can be a productive player for us. He put up 46 points a few years ago. He has all the tools to be successful. We also think Tedenby still has a lot left in the tank and still can become a solid top 6 player. He's going to get another chance to prove that. We also believe Matteau can be a very good power forward in this league and he's going to be given an opportunity to make an impact from camp onward. Losing David and Danius is difficult but we feel we have the personnel to recover and be successful."

 

[Richer's Ghost]

if Moose retires Lou better be on the phone with St. Louis. Even after jettisoning Bishop they have 3 legit goalies ready for NHL action and I have to think Elliott would be available for a reasonable price.

 

[Benedict Parisechuk]

Offense is really needed. If Hedberg does decide to retire then I don't know why people think we're going out to get another goalie cause it's just gonna be Kinkaid brought up to be backup I would bet. And with Pete's unwillingness to play him when Moose was ******** all over the place then who knows? We could possibly see the pre 2010 Marty Brodeur workload again, and remember the pre 2010 Marty?

75+ games a season with Vezina winning/nominating seasons, and horrific playoffs with way more bad goals than we saw last years playoffs when he played pretty damn good after the Florida series. If people remember the 06-08 playoffs and impossible angle goals from Vinny, St Louis, Staal, and Alfredsson, then I don't know how you could want him playing many games. Face it, if Hedberg retires then Kinkaid will be the backup.

Oof, that's a troubling thought. Tossing a 80 year old goalie into the fire and starting him that many games would be suicide. Pete and Lou can't be that stupid... They just can't be.

 

[Bleedred]

I'm already mentally preparing for a scenario like this. I can read Lou's quote on TG's blog now:

"We think Matt can really take his game to another level and can be a productive player for us. He put up 46 points a few years ago. He has all the tools to be successful. We also think Tedenby still has a lot left in the tank and still can become a solid top 6 player. He's going to get another chance to prove that. We also believe Matteau can be a very good power forward in this league and he's going to be given an opportunity to make an impact from camp onward. Losing David and Danius is difficult but we feel we have the personnel to recover and be successful."

Why can I see this actually happening? Tedenby is done with us. How many chances is he gonna get? Pete doesn't like him anyway, and it will never work. I hope he goes home to Sweden so that the temptation of throwing him in again isn't there.


Yeah that's typical Lou speak though. We'll also get to hear him say ''You don't replace a player like David Clarkson'' which is a ton of BS but really all I expect of Lou/ownership at this point. Just like Pete's toughness, and big hit speeches about Volchenkov.

 

[Bleedred]

if Moose retires Lou better be on the phone with St. Louis. Even after jettisoning Bishop they have 3 legit goalies ready for NHL action and I have to think Elliott would be available for a reasonable price.

I'd be more into Halak, but Elliott would be a solid backup I think. Maybe if they go on a big run with Elliott this year it will make Halak expendable.

 

[apice3*]

if Moose retires Lou better be on the phone with St. Louis. Even after jettisoning Bishop they have 3 legit goalies ready for NHL action and I have to think Elliott would be available for a reasonable price.

I have a feeling that St. Louis would be more willing to move Halak if they got a fair deal. I also wouldn't be surprised if they went with the two goalie system like Chicago used this year, and like the Blues used in 2011-12.

I think Khudobin is a free agent. Wouldn't be against him.

 

[Bleedred]

I'm fine with Hedberg as a backup. He could probably come in once a week or in back to backs, and put in a pretty good performance like we've been used to for the last 3 years. He was playing great before Marty got injured. I thought he was fine against the Rangers too. One of the only players to show up, and they really left him out to dry in that game.

It's when Hedberg has to be your starter that things start getting flushed down the commode.

I'd also be worried about an injury to Hedberg too. If Kinkaid or Frazee is brought up then Pete would never use them. He'd play Marty at his pre 2010 workload. If he really thought Hedberg giving up multiple bad goals a game gave us a better chance to win then what do you think he'll think if Marty is our only option?

 

[MasterofGrond]

Status quo on goaltenders is lunacy